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L
That's a very two-dimensional type of thinking you have there. Why do you automatically assume that just because I have not fallen on my knees and begged Jesus Christ to be my eternal savior and Lord...that I don't believe anything? Who are you to tell me what I do or do not believe? A person doesn't have to be a "true believer" to see the events of the world and how things are getting worse and worse, faster and faster, and see that they bear a striking resemblance to the events laid out in the Revelation of St. John the Divine, not to mention the prophecy in the book of Daniel. Do you assume because I am not marching down the street with a big sign saying I LOVE JESUS that I've never read a word of scripture? Really?
You have a myopic view of things though, and you ASSUME that because I am not exactly like YOU, that I am WRONG. Shame on you. The world is not black and white.
You have a myopic view of things though, and you ASSUME that because I am not exactly like YOU, that I am WRONG. Shame on you. The world is not black and white.
L
Non-Christian means I don't follow Christ. Period. That's ALL it means. It does NOT mean that I don't believe in God. It does NOT mean that I don't believe the Bible is inspired scripture. It does NOT mean that I don't pray or worship God. All Non-Christian means is that I don't follow Christ.
Would you give this same crap to a Jew? They're non-Christians too, you know?
You spoke out of turn and you got snatched back for it. No point trying to back-peddle now. You're not going to win brownie points here.
L
Yes, of course I know this. I was merely trying to make my point in a succinct manner. In my other postings, I have spoken about my salvation and how it is a challenge to me because as of yet, my heart is still hardened and I am not yet ready to accept. I am still "new" on this journey, but even so, that does not mean I cannot speak on matters of faith.
On any given day, I'll put my questioning, doubting faith up against those self-proclaimed Christians who squeezed a pastor's hands as the pastor recited the "sinner's prayer" or who checked a box in the back page of a Chick tract. If I am to become a Christian, I ain't gonna be one of the fools "playing Christian", so if the Lord sees fit to soften my heart, then so be it and let His will be done. I don't know what tomorrow holds.
On any given day, I'll put my questioning, doubting faith up against those self-proclaimed Christians who squeezed a pastor's hands as the pastor recited the "sinner's prayer" or who checked a box in the back page of a Chick tract. If I am to become a Christian, I ain't gonna be one of the fools "playing Christian", so if the Lord sees fit to soften my heart, then so be it and let His will be done. I don't know what tomorrow holds.
G
What do you think you have to accept?
This is a horrible place to try to figure that out!
Loss of salvation.
change your life.
you can't believe, you might not be the elect.
if you don't repent of all your sins.
your going to hell for all your sins.
if you have deliberate sin.
if you sin habitually.
you have to confess with your mouth.
you WILL have works and fruit.
MASS,MASS I mean MASS chaos.
All the Lord Jesus Christ asks is to simply believe. Recognize your sinner. Believe/trust that the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins and rose again.................He will save you.
IMO, your a breath of fresh air around these parts.
This is a horrible place to try to figure that out!
Loss of salvation.
change your life.
you can't believe, you might not be the elect.
if you don't repent of all your sins.
your going to hell for all your sins.
if you have deliberate sin.
if you sin habitually.
you have to confess with your mouth.
you WILL have works and fruit.
MASS,MASS I mean MASS chaos.
All the Lord Jesus Christ asks is to simply believe. Recognize your sinner. Believe/trust that the Lord Jesus Christ died on the cross for your sins and rose again.................He will save you.
IMO, your a breath of fresh air around these parts.
D
Just so you know, you're not alone. Not "everyone." Just some of various camps. I've known some from every camp and have never known anyone who thinks others will lose salvation over this. (And, if anyone told me I would on this site, my statement still stands. I still don't know you. It's a choice to know people, and I choose not to know those who are that sure they're always right.)
The Great Trib hasn't started there in the M.E. either...
Revelation 8:7-13 KJVS
[7] The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. [8] And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; [9] And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. [10] And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; [11] And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. [12] And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. [13] And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
And that is just the beginning!!
Revelation 8:7-13 KJVS
[7] The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. [8] And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; [9] And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. [10] And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; [11] And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. [12] And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. [13] And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!
And that is just the beginning!!
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Speaking of the RAPTURE....Imagine the pile of "STUFF" That will be left on the sidewalk the day that your body is suddenly transformed and swept up to be with JESUS in the twinkling of an eye. HAVE YOU really thought about the actual experience? No, you cannot run and take your favorite family heirloom. What those who are left behind will see...is all the 'fake", all the enhancers, and all the physical extremities us humans put upon ourselves at a high cost. For example: Pamela Anderson is only 65% BIO-degradable. Suppose she became a CHRISTIAN lady right before the Rapture occurred. Can you begin to imagine what she will leave that she was NOT born with automatically. Try to envision the bi-products laying on the ground of her latest botox, the breast implants, the fake eyelashes, the stitched inside tummy tucks, the wig and hair extensions, the jewelry, shoes, clothing, accessories, lipsticks, makeup, colored eye contacts, fake nails, dental implants, body piercings, and the list goes on! It will take a dump truck to hall away what she (and a lot of others) carry on the body.
Call me a heretic if you will..... I've never given much thought to the "Rapture"... there will be something happen, that's for sure. The ONLY thing I can do to survive/escape/ participate... whatever... in this, is to be living in Christ as best I can... my whole life.
THAT'S the only "guarantee" you'll get. Quit worrying about it. The end times are going to happen. God is in charge. We (believers) WIN against Satan. Thank you, Jesus, and praise to Jehovah God...
THAT'S the only "guarantee" you'll get. Quit worrying about it. The end times are going to happen. God is in charge. We (believers) WIN against Satan. Thank you, Jesus, and praise to Jehovah God...
G
( BAD reasoning - because you believe it MUST be a short period of time )SMH...
If you could only see clearly to understand...:
~ We are in the Great Tribulation now -- since ~70 A.D.
~ ww1 and ww2 are simply part of the Great Tribulation
~ The worst is yet to come - at the end of the Great Tribulation - which is yet future
G
"That is after the end..."
Matthew 24:
[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Careful study of this will reveal that it is talking about the Trumpet Events - occurring over a period of time that is at least 3.5 years in length - and coinciding with the Two Witnesses - who actually cause them to happen...
~ The Trumpet Events occur after the Great Tribulation is over.
~ It is not the return of Jesus that ends the Great Tribulation; rather, it is the Two Witnesses.
Matthew 24:
[SUP]29[/SUP] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: [SUP]30[/SUP] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [SUP]31[/SUP] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Careful study of this will reveal that it is talking about the Trumpet Events - occurring over a period of time that is at least 3.5 years in length - and coinciding with the Two Witnesses - who actually cause them to happen...
~ The Trumpet Events occur after the Great Tribulation is over.
~ It is not the return of Jesus that ends the Great Tribulation; rather, it is the Two Witnesses.
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Hello GaryA,
The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are the events by which God will carry out his wrath during that last seven years. Therefore, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are all contained within the seven years. As proof of this, after the 6th bowl is poured out, Jesus interjects the following in relation to the narrative:
"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed"
The above would demonstrate that Jesus hasn't returned by the 6th bowl and not until after the 7th bowl, which completes God's wrath, then Jesus returns to end the age. It would make no sense for the trumpets and bowls to take place after Christ has returned. Also, that is not the chronological order according to the scriptures.
The two witnesses do not end the great tribulation, but their time of prophecy is from the beginning of the seven years to the middle, where they will be killed by the beast, that angel, who comes up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet. Regarding the two witnesses, the plagues that they bring are in addition to what God will be unleashing on the earth through the seals, trumpets and bowls. It is Christ's return to the earth as described in Rev.19:11-21 that brings an end to the age and not the witnesses, who will have been killed 3 1/2 years prior.
The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are the events by which God will carry out his wrath during that last seven years. Therefore, the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments are all contained within the seven years. As proof of this, after the 6th bowl is poured out, Jesus interjects the following in relation to the narrative:
"Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed"
The above would demonstrate that Jesus hasn't returned by the 6th bowl and not until after the 7th bowl, which completes God's wrath, then Jesus returns to end the age. It would make no sense for the trumpets and bowls to take place after Christ has returned. Also, that is not the chronological order according to the scriptures.
The two witnesses do not end the great tribulation, but their time of prophecy is from the beginning of the seven years to the middle, where they will be killed by the beast, that angel, who comes up out of the Abyss at the sounding of the 5th trumpet. Regarding the two witnesses, the plagues that they bring are in addition to what God will be unleashing on the earth through the seals, trumpets and bowls. It is Christ's return to the earth as described in Rev.19:11-21 that brings an end to the age and not the witnesses, who will have been killed 3 1/2 years prior.