The answer is no, once you confess your sins to Jesus who died on the cross for these sins, you invite the Holy Spirit to live in your heart by repenting of your past sinful lifestyle. This requires obedience to God. Repentance means to do a 180 in how you know live your life based on what is now your priority which is to humbly serve the Lord. You cannot do this if you're still mired in sin. If you are truly saved there must be dramatic change in your spiritual attitude in how you now live your life with love in your heart for your Lord and Savior.
Are you saved if you are not obedient?
- Thread starter Rokurac
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Easy believism is popular. People take the easy way out and say yes, we must be obedient, or my obedience helps save me, or I am better than you are (the was of the flesh) because it is easy to puff yourself up and water down the law so we can meet the standard.
The hard way (placing faith in the hope of things NOT SEEN) we see a few people who profess this faith. Yet then again, This is what Scripture said will happen.
The hard way (placing faith in the hope of things NOT SEEN) we see a few people who profess this faith. Yet then again, This is what Scripture said will happen.
The Bible says salvation is by grace through faith.
Eph 2:
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
And contrary to what Calvinists insist, the gift is not the faith to believe, the gift is salvation, which people receive when they decide to believe (have faith).
Salvation is by Christ WHEN PEOPLE DECIDE TO BELIEVE on him.
If YOU have done nothing whatsoever (IE: not determine to believe), then YOU are still lost.
Eph 1:
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
People HEAR the gospel, then DECIDE to believe it, THEN they are sealed with the gift of the promised Holy Spirit.
God does not arbitrarily choose to save some people but not others.
Eph 2:
8) For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
And contrary to what Calvinists insist, the gift is not the faith to believe, the gift is salvation, which people receive when they decide to believe (have faith).
Salvation is by Christ WHEN PEOPLE DECIDE TO BELIEVE on him.
If YOU have done nothing whatsoever (IE: not determine to believe), then YOU are still lost.
Eph 1:
13) In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
People HEAR the gospel, then DECIDE to believe it, THEN they are sealed with the gift of the promised Holy Spirit.
God does not arbitrarily choose to save some people but not others.
Salvation is the gift of God because of His grace, and it is without our doing anything. In other words it is His work not ours, solely as a result of His undeserved favour.
Regardless of what 'calvinists' believe it is all of grace, therefore it is not the result of doing ANYTHING. If faith were required first it would not be of God's grace, rather it would be of debt.
Then it is not wholly of grace. Man does something, however 'small' to earn it,,
God works repentance and faith within the man who comes to Him, but He brings this about.
LOL after a long description of God's forechoosing.
But their decision is wrought in them BY GOD. 'In Whom we have obtained an inheritance having been predestined according to His purpose, Who works all things after the counsel of His will' (Eph 1.13)
No one says He does it arbitrarily. He chooses in His own way,
Regardless of what 'calvinists' believe it is all of grace, therefore it is not the result of doing ANYTHING. If faith were required first it would not be of God's grace, rather it would be of debt.
Then it is not wholly of grace. Man does something, however 'small' to earn it,,
God works repentance and faith within the man who comes to Him, but He brings this about.
LOL after a long description of God's forechoosing.
But their decision is wrought in them BY GOD. 'In Whom we have obtained an inheritance having been predestined according to His purpose, Who works all things after the counsel of His will' (Eph 1.13)
No one says He does it arbitrarily. He chooses in His own way,
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Perhaps I have, but I was not writing re what I've seen here. 
I was threatened with being booted off another board just because I eat kosher. Indeed, they called me by the famous epithet, "Judaizer," when I only mentioned using a kosher diet when they asked. Real interesting posts were written, I was threatened with expulsion, so I left.
This happened to me.
I was threatened with being booted off another board just because I eat kosher. Indeed, they called me by the famous epithet, "Judaizer," when I only mentioned using a kosher diet when they asked. Real interesting posts were written, I was threatened with expulsion, so I left.
This happened to me.
This forum does not allow teachings against the deity of Jesus or in promotion of cults and heresies.
other than that there is no censorship.
Perhaps I have, but I was not writing re what I've seen here.
I was threatened with being booted off another board just because I eat kosher. Indeed, they called me by the famous epithet, "Judaizer," when I only mentioned using a kosher diet when they asked. Real interesting posts were written, I was threatened with expulsion, so I left.
This happened to me.
I was threatened with being booted off another board just because I eat kosher. Indeed, they called me by the famous epithet, "Judaizer," when I only mentioned using a kosher diet when they asked. Real interesting posts were written, I was threatened with expulsion, so I left.
This happened to me.
We believers need to learn how to love each other and not devour each other.
Even if we disagree and it's not fundamentally against core doctrine then it's good to discuss but not face palm.
God bless you and it's great to see you here.
I'm sure thier loss will be our gain.
Yes that's very true indeed.
Good post.
I remembered once after carrying around for years the fear of committing the unforgivable sin.
I plucked up the courage one day and told someone about it.
He chuckled and looked at me and said "That's evidence that you have not committed it, and said satan is having a field day with
You, rebuke it"
He did also ask me if anyone had said something to me that made me think that.
I think that's something we should all be careful of when interacting with each other.
Good post.
I remembered once after carrying around for years the fear of committing the unforgivable sin.
I plucked up the courage one day and told someone about it.
He chuckled and looked at me and said "That's evidence that you have not committed it, and said satan is having a field day with
You, rebuke it"
He did also ask me if anyone had said something to me that made me think that.
I think that's something we should all be careful of when interacting with each other.
One thing I have seen in such discussions on the internet
For many of us who choose to do our best to obey The Law, it is not at all in order to earn anything. That would be ridiculous for believers who obey Torah . . . in my opinion and as I understand the Bible. In my opinion, we all come to G-D on the same plane, and remain on the same plane as believers.
Some may disagree, but presently, I know of no one here who does.
But I'm new here.
And by the way, BillG, I may dot my lowercase Is and cross my Ts, but I refuse to either dot my lowercase Js or cross the uppercase Js.
(And I certainly do NOT intend you, Bill G -- something in your post just reminded me)
is that sometimes, when A sees B trying to do what the Bible says, A will be hard on B, declaring that B is trying to "earn" salvation, is a Pharisee, is a Judaizer, etc. For many of us who choose to do our best to obey The Law, it is not at all in order to earn anything. That would be ridiculous for believers who obey Torah . . . in my opinion and as I understand the Bible. In my opinion, we all come to G-D on the same plane, and remain on the same plane as believers.
Some may disagree, but presently, I know of no one here who does.
But I'm new here.
And by the way, BillG, I may dot my lowercase Is and cross my Ts, but I refuse to either dot my lowercase Js or cross the uppercase Js.
I think our walk with God is different.
God interacts with us as he knows best and his we will respond.
The purpose is always the same though. To conform us to the image of Jesus, and he and only he knows how to do it and what is needed.
I thank God he knows what he is doing, if left to my own devices goodness knows where I would be.
Even when I'm really struggling I always seem after him.
So you are alleging that Christians are lost when they are actually saved. Not surprised that such nonsense is being posted by you. And I take it that your Bible does not say that sinners are justified by grace through faith? So how were you justified?
Actually if you want to nit pick, the Bible says that it is "the grace of God" that brings salvation (Titus 2:11; Heb 2:9), and the New Testament generally uses the word "God" for God the Father, not for Jesus Christ the Son of God.
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men...
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
And not to digress, but Jesus tasted death for EVERY MAN. Think about that since it contradicts what you believe.
If I told a person that I put a $100 bill under their pillow, and that person doesn't retrieve the money, they obviously didn't believe what I told them. Belief isn't just an empty word, we can't say that we belief someone and then not follow them. That would make us a hypocrite.
Some people say they believe for insurance, just in case its true. But action on what we claim to believe is faith, and its that faith through his grace that gives us assurance... jmo
Some people say they believe for insurance, just in case its true. But action on what we claim to believe is faith, and its that faith through his grace that gives us assurance... jmo
Well then threatening you was not quite kosher, since kosher metaphorically means what is right or righteous. As to dietary restrictions, Christians are free to follow the dictates of their own conscience, provided they allow other Christians the liberty of eating whatever they wish. In fact, the New Testament clearly teaches this truth, since Christ taught that it is not what goes into a man that defiles him, but what comes out of his "heart" (soul).
Non-believers love to think they are smarter and more logical and more rational than anyone who believes in God, Whom they often characterize as an "imaginary friend," but when it comes right down to it, of course they are not I have talked to non-believers who complained about not being allowed to "go to heaven." Certainly this is illogical, since they do not even believe in such a concept, yet still they would think it unfair that God would not give them more of what they refuse to acknowledge He gave them in the first place (life). It brings to mind what Jesus said: "They know not what they do."
I have talked to non-believers who complained about not being allowed to "go to heaven." Certainly this is illogical, since they do not even believe in such a concept, yet still they would think it unfair that God would not give them more of what they refuse to acknowledge He gave them in the first place (life). It brings to mind what Jesus said: "They know not what they do."
Think on this bro:
Calvinists have the limited atonement thing going, and they also believe in once saved always saved or perseverence of the saints.
Then you ask them what about this warning passage and that warning passage about apostasy. They proceed to quote john's epistle out of context (they went out from us but were not of us etc.)and apply it to every apostate without realizing its talking about the gnostics who were antichrists denying Jesus came in the flesh as the context states.
All good so far, but then we get to one of the warning passages in Hebrews 10:29! And there it says they have trodden the son of God and have counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith they was sanctified, an unholy thing . Big problem! If Jesus didnt die for everyone there is nothing to trample and count unholy for the fake convert who was never real to begin with. They went out from us but were not of us dont apply to that verse. FAIL
This is where they're in trouble, they got three options:
1. Deny the P in TULIP which will never happen, too much time has gone by and too much tradition and pride.
2. Deny the L in TULIP which again will never happen
3. Pull up with mental gymnastics, and make fun of me or my argument or pull a rabbit of some kind out the hat. These guys tend to be very intellectual and educated by worldly standards so im excited to see what they'll come up with.
The answer to OP is simple, of course not! Glad the poll is at 100% its a closed case
Calvinists have the limited atonement thing going, and they also believe in once saved always saved or perseverence of the saints.
Then you ask them what about this warning passage and that warning passage about apostasy. They proceed to quote john's epistle out of context (they went out from us but were not of us etc.)and apply it to every apostate without realizing its talking about the gnostics who were antichrists denying Jesus came in the flesh as the context states.
All good so far, but then we get to one of the warning passages in Hebrews 10:29! And there it says they have trodden the son of God and have counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith they was sanctified, an unholy thing . Big problem! If Jesus didnt die for everyone there is nothing to trample and count unholy for the fake convert who was never real to begin with. They went out from us but were not of us dont apply to that verse. FAIL
This is where they're in trouble, they got three options:
1. Deny the P in TULIP which will never happen, too much time has gone by and too much tradition and pride.
2. Deny the L in TULIP which again will never happen
3. Pull up with mental gymnastics, and make fun of me or my argument or pull a rabbit of some kind out the hat. These guys tend to be very intellectual and educated by worldly standards so im excited to see what they'll come up with.
The answer to OP is simple, of course not! Glad the poll is at 100% its a closed case
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11, By belief they performed an action;[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:1, "And belief is the substance of what is expected, the proof of what is not seen.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:4, "By belief, Heḇel offered to Yah a greater slaughter offering than Qayin, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, Yah witnessing of his gifts. And through it, having died, he still speaks.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:5, "By belief, Ḥanoḵ was translated so as not to see death, “and was not found because Yah had translated him.” (Gen 5:24) For before his translation he obtained witness, that he pleased Yah.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:6, "But without belief it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:7, "By belief, Noaḥ, having been warned of what was yet unseen, having feared, prepared an ark to save his house, through which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to belief.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.11:9, "By belief, he sojourned in the land of promise as a stranger, dwelling in tents with Yitsḥaq and Ya‛aqoḇ, the heirs with him of the same promise,"11:10, "for he was looking for the city having foundations, whose builder and maker is Yah.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:11, "By belief also, Sarah herself was enabled to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the normal age, because she deemed Him trustworthy who had promised.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:17, "By belief, Aḇraham, when he was tried, offered up Yitsḥaq, and he who had received the promises offered up his only brought-forth son,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:20, "By belief, Yitsḥaq blessed Ya‛aqoḇ and Ěsaw concerning that which was to come.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:21, "By belief, Ya‛aqoḇ, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Yosĕph, and did reverence on the top of his staff.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:22, "By belief, Yosĕph, when he was dying, made mention of the outgoing of the children of Yisra’ĕl, and gave orders concerning his bones.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:23, "By belief, Mosheh, having been born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a comely child, and were not afraid of the sovereign’s command. (Exo 2:2) [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:24, "By belief, Mosheh, having become great, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh,"11:25, "choosing rather to be afflicted with the people of Yah than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time,"11:26, "deeming the reproach of Messiah greater riches than the treasures in Mitsrayim, for he was looking to the reward.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:27, "By belief, he left Mitsrayim, not fearing the wrath of the sovereign, for he was steadfast, as seeing Him who is invisible.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:28, "By belief, he performed the Pĕsaḥ and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the first-born should touch them.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:29, "By belief, they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, and when the Mitsrites tried it, they were drowned.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:30, "By belief, the walls of Yeriḥo fell, having been surrounded for seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:31, "By belief, Raḥaḇ the whore did not perish with those who did not believe, having received the spies with peace.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:33, "who through belief, overcame reigns, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,"11:34, "quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became mighty in battle, put foreign armies to flight."11:35, "Women received back their dead by resurrection. And others were tortured, not accepting release, to obtain a better resurrection."11:36, "And others had trial of mockings and floggings and more, of chains and imprisonment."11:37, "They were stoned, they were tried, they were sawn in two, they were slain with the sword. They went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being in need, afflicted, mistreated,”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14-20, "But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead? 21, "Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the slaughter-place? 22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected? 23, "And the Scripture was filled which says, “Aḇraham believed Yah, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And He called him, “he who loves Yah. 24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone. 25, "In the same way, was not Raḥaḇ the whore also declared right by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:1, "And belief is the substance of what is expected, the proof of what is not seen.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:4, "By belief, Heḇel offered to Yah a greater slaughter offering than Qayin, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, Yah witnessing of his gifts. And through it, having died, he still speaks.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:5, "By belief, Ḥanoḵ was translated so as not to see death, “and was not found because Yah had translated him.” (Gen 5:24) For before his translation he obtained witness, that he pleased Yah.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:6, "But without belief it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:7, "By belief, Noaḥ, having been warned of what was yet unseen, having feared, prepared an ark to save his house, through which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to belief.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:8, "By belief, Aḇraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he was about to receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going.11:9, "By belief, he sojourned in the land of promise as a stranger, dwelling in tents with Yitsḥaq and Ya‛aqoḇ, the heirs with him of the same promise,"11:10, "for he was looking for the city having foundations, whose builder and maker is Yah.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:11, "By belief also, Sarah herself was enabled to conceive seed, and she bore a child when she was past the normal age, because she deemed Him trustworthy who had promised.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:17, "By belief, Aḇraham, when he was tried, offered up Yitsḥaq, and he who had received the promises offered up his only brought-forth son,[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:20, "By belief, Yitsḥaq blessed Ya‛aqoḇ and Ěsaw concerning that which was to come.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:21, "By belief, Ya‛aqoḇ, when he was dying, blessed each of the sons of Yosĕph, and did reverence on the top of his staff.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:22, "By belief, Yosĕph, when he was dying, made mention of the outgoing of the children of Yisra’ĕl, and gave orders concerning his bones.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:23, "By belief, Mosheh, having been born, was hidden three months by his parents, because they saw he was a comely child, and were not afraid of the sovereign’s command. (Exo 2:2) [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:24, "By belief, Mosheh, having become great, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharaoh,"11:25, "choosing rather to be afflicted with the people of Yah than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a time,"11:26, "deeming the reproach of Messiah greater riches than the treasures in Mitsrayim, for he was looking to the reward.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:27, "By belief, he left Mitsrayim, not fearing the wrath of the sovereign, for he was steadfast, as seeing Him who is invisible.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:28, "By belief, he performed the Pĕsaḥ and the sprinkling of blood, lest he who destroyed the first-born should touch them.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:29, "By belief, they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, and when the Mitsrites tried it, they were drowned.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:30, "By belief, the walls of Yeriḥo fell, having been surrounded for seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:31, "By belief, Raḥaḇ the whore did not perish with those who did not believe, having received the spies with peace.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]11:33, "who through belief, overcame reigns, worked righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions,"11:34, "quenched the power of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, became mighty in battle, put foreign armies to flight."11:35, "Women received back their dead by resurrection. And others were tortured, not accepting release, to obtain a better resurrection."11:36, "And others had trial of mockings and floggings and more, of chains and imprisonment."11:37, "They were stoned, they were tried, they were sawn in two, they were slain with the sword. They went about in sheepskins, in goatskins, being in need, afflicted, mistreated,”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]James 2:14-20, "But do you wish to know, O empty man, that the belief without the works is dead? 21, "Was not Aḇraham our father declared right by works when he offered Yitsḥaq his son on the slaughter-place? 22, "Do you see that the belief was working with his works, and by the works the belief was perfected? 23, "And the Scripture was filled which says, “Aḇraham believed Yah, and it was reckoned to him for righteousness.” And He called him, “he who loves Yah. 24, "You see, then, that a man is declared right by works, and not by belief alone. 25, "In the same way, was not Raḥaḇ the whore also declared right by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26, “For as the body without the spirit is dead, so also the belief is dead without the works.”[/FONT]