Are you saved if you are not obedient?
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obedience is evidence of genuine salvation. the bible is clear on this. there are many many verses stating it and u know it. but u are forced to not accept them if u hold to easy believism, no repentance gospel.
if the Spirit of the living God lives inside of u, things will change make no mistake about that. its not possible to remain in the same condition forever. without sanctification noone will see the Lord. and thats not works salvation thats evidence of genuine salvation.
not sinless perfection, but a change in life. thats what i mean
if the Spirit of the living God lives inside of u, things will change make no mistake about that. its not possible to remain in the same condition forever. without sanctification noone will see the Lord. and thats not works salvation thats evidence of genuine salvation.
not sinless perfection, but a change in life. thats what i mean
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D
God is very verifiable.
Real faith has everything to do with verifying what we have faith in. And because we can, we do.
-- You have verifiable proof you have faith in your chair. You sit in it. You don't land on the floor.
-- You have verifiable faith in air. You breath it. You live. If you did not have faith in air, you would be sucking up each breathe, holding it in as long as possible, and hoping you can suck in the next breathe, but not sure you can.
-- You have verifiable faith in your car. You sit in it, and it doesn't fall apart all around you. You turn the key in the ignition, and it starts.
There may come a day when your chair will fall apart, when you're next breath is without oxygen, or your car does not start, but that is because they are things that aren't guaranteed forever.
God is guaranteed forever, and has proved it since forever started. Whatever you see? That is God in action. Whatever you hear? Also God in action getting his will. Every smell, taste, and touch, same deal. God. AND that change in you when he made himself known to you? Not even his biggest verification, and yet, the one that worked for you. His biggest verification was Jesus rose from the dead three days later.
(Oh, and sorry. We had to beat the Bears. After all, we're going to the Super Bowl and winning this time. lol)
Real faith has everything to do with verifying what we have faith in. And because we can, we do.
-- You have verifiable proof you have faith in your chair. You sit in it. You don't land on the floor.
-- You have verifiable faith in air. You breath it. You live. If you did not have faith in air, you would be sucking up each breathe, holding it in as long as possible, and hoping you can suck in the next breathe, but not sure you can.
-- You have verifiable faith in your car. You sit in it, and it doesn't fall apart all around you. You turn the key in the ignition, and it starts.
There may come a day when your chair will fall apart, when you're next breath is without oxygen, or your car does not start, but that is because they are things that aren't guaranteed forever.
God is guaranteed forever, and has proved it since forever started. Whatever you see? That is God in action. Whatever you hear? Also God in action getting his will. Every smell, taste, and touch, same deal. God. AND that change in you when he made himself known to you? Not even his biggest verification, and yet, the one that worked for you. His biggest verification was Jesus rose from the dead three days later.
(Oh, and sorry. We had to beat the Bears. After all, we're going to the Super Bowl and winning this time. lol)
D
I am curious how all those who claim they obey deal with the fact that they don't always. Do y'all just ignore that? Dismiss it? How do you deal with the fact that you aren't perfectly obedient? Or even that if obedience was a grade, you'd be happy with a bare pass/fail system? Skip getting an A. A D- is looking pretty good.
Calvinists need to think about some of the things they say...
When people saw the planes flying into the World Trade Center towers, was that "God in action"? When people heard the shots ringing out at Sandy Hook elementary school when 20+ people were killed, including many young children, was that God "getting His will"?
Emphatically: NO.
When people saw the planes flying into the World Trade Center towers, was that "God in action"? When people heard the shots ringing out at Sandy Hook elementary school when 20+ people were killed, including many young children, was that God "getting His will"?
Emphatically: NO.
Better yet: Obedience in itself. Much talk about all glory to God
Which is true, yet these same people are admitting they sin everyday in thought word and deed. I can admit that much easier than they because I blame myself.
With calvinists I wanna ask; why is God failing so miserably at saving you? That you still sin daily in thought word and deed? God really doesnt know how to get rid of sin in your life.
Or maybe its not God's fault? Maybe its us.
So in all honesty the talk about all glory to God is more like all blame to God.
Every time folks dont get sanctified its God's fault, every time we fail to break away from sin its God's fault. He just didnt grant us enough repentance and grace.
Why doesnt God grant people repentance and give them a new heart as you claim and then make them PERFECT? Certainly He can, He is sovereign and Almighty so why the poor results in sanctification that everyone sins daily in thoughts word and deed?
Which is true, yet these same people are admitting they sin everyday in thought word and deed. I can admit that much easier than they because I blame myself.
With calvinists I wanna ask; why is God failing so miserably at saving you? That you still sin daily in thought word and deed? God really doesnt know how to get rid of sin in your life.
Or maybe its not God's fault? Maybe its us.
So in all honesty the talk about all glory to God is more like all blame to God.
Every time folks dont get sanctified its God's fault, every time we fail to break away from sin its God's fault. He just didnt grant us enough repentance and grace.
Why doesnt God grant people repentance and give them a new heart as you claim and then make them PERFECT? Certainly He can, He is sovereign and Almighty so why the poor results in sanctification that everyone sins daily in thoughts word and deed?
Issachar, I was born into a semi-Pelagian belief system. Afraid to leave, because of their threats, I stayed years after I knew I needed to leave. I still feel like I am new at being Reformed, so my answers to your questions will be from that perspective. 
Regarding sinning "every day in word, thought, and deed", I think I do. The reasons are often not anything specific that I can recall. It's just that I am human: it's that while G-D is perfect in every way, while I am so faulty; therefore, I sin. However, that is not disheartening; my life is in the Messiah, Who stands before G-D, so when G-D sees me, He sees me through His Son's sacrifice, which is enough.
G-D has not "failed miserably" in my life. Not at all. He has done exactly as He intended: He has saved me from my old unbelief and lets me depend on Him fully for any righteousness I can claim. He has shown me that I have no righteousness of my own, that any of my righteousness is as filthy rags, while His is thorough and enough for me.
Of course, I do my best to live as the Bible says. In fact, I am only happy when I do that. It is depressing for me to do otherwise.
Sometimes, He stops me short with His revelation of a sin in my life. This has happened many times. Almost every time, I repent and determine not to do that sin again by His grace and enabling. But I have had times when I balked, a couple times when I went on ignoring Him a couple hours, but He stays on me until I give in to Him. It just does not make sense to do otherwise. Simple as that.
Today, however, I was awakened by the phone at a time when it is illegal for such persons to call. Of course, I knew it was a robocall, but I yelled at the machine and griped, telling it "No, no, no." I didn't look very godly through that minute. I justified my griping by saying, "It's just a stupid machine." So was that how my L-RD would have handled it? No. And anything less than what He asks of me is sin.
Regarding sinning "every day in word, thought, and deed", I think I do. The reasons are often not anything specific that I can recall. It's just that I am human: it's that while G-D is perfect in every way, while I am so faulty; therefore, I sin. However, that is not disheartening; my life is in the Messiah, Who stands before G-D, so when G-D sees me, He sees me through His Son's sacrifice, which is enough.
G-D has not "failed miserably" in my life. Not at all. He has done exactly as He intended: He has saved me from my old unbelief and lets me depend on Him fully for any righteousness I can claim. He has shown me that I have no righteousness of my own, that any of my righteousness is as filthy rags, while His is thorough and enough for me.
Of course, I do my best to live as the Bible says. In fact, I am only happy when I do that. It is depressing for me to do otherwise.
Sometimes, He stops me short with His revelation of a sin in my life. This has happened many times. Almost every time, I repent and determine not to do that sin again by His grace and enabling. But I have had times when I balked, a couple times when I went on ignoring Him a couple hours, but He stays on me until I give in to Him. It just does not make sense to do otherwise. Simple as that.
Today, however, I was awakened by the phone at a time when it is illegal for such persons to call. Of course, I knew it was a robocall, but I yelled at the machine and griped, telling it "No, no, no." I didn't look very godly through that minute. I justified my griping by saying, "It's just a stupid machine." So was that how my L-RD would have handled it? No. And anything less than what He asks of me is sin.
Issachar, I was born into a semi-Pelagian belief system. Afraid to leave, because of their threats, I stayed years after I knew I needed to leave. I still feel like I am new at being Reformed, so my answers to your questions will be from that perspective.
Regarding sinning "every day in word, thought, and deed", I think I do. The reasons are often not anything specific that I can recall. It's just that I am human: it's that while G-D is perfect in every way, while I am so faulty; therefore, I sin. However, that is not disheartening; my life is in the Messiah, Who stands before G-D, so when G-D sees me, He sees me through His Son's sacrifice, which is enough.
G-D has not "failed miserably" in my life. Not at all. He has done exactly as He intended: He has saved me from my old unbelief and lets me depend on Him fully for any righteousness I can claim. He has shown me that I have no righteousness of my own, that any of my righteousness is as filthy rags, while His is thorough and enough for me.
Of course, I do my best to live as the Bible says. In fact, I am only happy when I do that. It is depressing for me to do otherwise.
Sometimes, He stops me short with His revelation of a sin in my life. This has happened many times. Almost every time, I repent and determine not to do that sin again by His grace and enabling. But I have had times when I balked, a couple times when I went on ignoring Him a couple hours, but He stays on me until I give in to Him. It just does not make sense to do otherwise. Simple as that.
Today, however, I was awakened by the phone at a time when it is illegal for such persons to call. Of course, I knew it was a robocall, but I yelled at the machine and griped, telling it "No, no, no." I didn't look very godly through that minute. I justified my griping by saying, "It's just a stupid machine." So was that how my L-RD would have handled it? No. And anything less than what He asks of me is sin.
Regarding sinning "every day in word, thought, and deed", I think I do. The reasons are often not anything specific that I can recall. It's just that I am human: it's that while G-D is perfect in every way, while I am so faulty; therefore, I sin. However, that is not disheartening; my life is in the Messiah, Who stands before G-D, so when G-D sees me, He sees me through His Son's sacrifice, which is enough.
G-D has not "failed miserably" in my life. Not at all. He has done exactly as He intended: He has saved me from my old unbelief and lets me depend on Him fully for any righteousness I can claim. He has shown me that I have no righteousness of my own, that any of my righteousness is as filthy rags, while His is thorough and enough for me.
Of course, I do my best to live as the Bible says. In fact, I am only happy when I do that. It is depressing for me to do otherwise.
Sometimes, He stops me short with His revelation of a sin in my life. This has happened many times. Almost every time, I repent and determine not to do that sin again by His grace and enabling. But I have had times when I balked, a couple times when I went on ignoring Him a couple hours, but He stays on me until I give in to Him. It just does not make sense to do otherwise. Simple as that.
Today, however, I was awakened by the phone at a time when it is illegal for such persons to call. Of course, I knew it was a robocall, but I yelled at the machine and griped, telling it "No, no, no." I didn't look very godly through that minute. I justified my griping by saying, "It's just a stupid machine." So was that how my L-RD would have handled it? No. And anything less than what He asks of me is sin.
E
If it is both, then we are under law, not under grace,
If it is, then we are obeying to BE SAVED (Salvation by works)
and obeying By our own power (sanctification by works)
scripture teaches non of these
It teaches we are saved by THE WORK OF GOD
and that we who were perfected forever are being sanctified (we are sanctified by power of God working in us)
If it is, then we are obeying to BE SAVED (Salvation by works)
and obeying By our own power (sanctification by works)
scripture teaches non of these
It teaches we are saved by THE WORK OF GOD
and that we who were perfected forever are being sanctified (we are sanctified by power of God working in us)
I'm sleepy. I was taken aback when I read in your answer, copied here, "I appreciate your polite reply. I have to giggle . . ." Hee-hee! I need sleep!
But in answer to your question, I was reared in a holiness-pentecostal church which taught that people's wills, determinations, and desires can overpower G-D's purposes.
But in answer to your question, I was reared in a holiness-pentecostal church which taught that people's wills, determinations, and desires can overpower G-D's purposes.
I'm sleepy. I was taken aback when I read in your answer, copied here, "I appreciate your polite reply. I have to giggle . . ." Hee-hee! I need sleep!
But in answer to your question, I was reared in a holiness-pentecostal church which taught that people's wills, determinations, and desires can overpower G-D's purposes.
But in answer to your question, I was reared in a holiness-pentecostal church which taught that people's wills, determinations, and desires can overpower G-D's purposes.
I really dont wanna put a label on myself but I have to say what I read the wikipedia definition for, I would agree with the semi-pelagian view as I dont believe that man is incapable of obeying God, but unwilling.
What church do you attend now? And can I ask if your Jewish based on the way you type "G-d"?
נעים מאוד.
How kind. Now, I sure do hope that you will forgive me, because I don't purposely tell anyone on the Internet where I live, attend, vacation, or when. I sure hope that is not offensive.
I had my DNA done last year, and yes, I have a bit the blood from that area, but I learned that several years after I started attending where I go.
Now, I sure do hope that you will forgive me, because I don't purposely tell anyone on the Internet where I live, attend, vacation, or when. I sure hope that is not offensive. I had my DNA done last year, and yes, I have a bit the blood from that area, but I learned that several years after I started attending where I go.
Terminology is important, and chances are that that is not exactly what you were taught.
Regardless, the Bible reveals that human wills can go against the desires of God, not His "purposes". What God purposes, He accomplishes. But what He desires and what men do are not always in agreement, since He has given men free will.
Take the example of Israel, God's chosen people. He desired that they all should be saved, so He sent their Messiah almost exclusively to them. Instead of repenting and believing on Him, they rejected Him, just as they rejected and persecuted the prophets whom God had sent. Please note the words of Stephen (Acts 7:51,52):
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One [Jesus]; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers.
Regardless, the Bible reveals that human wills can go against the desires of God, not His "purposes". What God purposes, He accomplishes. But what He desires and what men do are not always in agreement, since He has given men free will.
Take the example of Israel, God's chosen people. He desired that they all should be saved, so He sent their Messiah almost exclusively to them. Instead of repenting and believing on Him, they rejected Him, just as they rejected and persecuted the prophets whom God had sent. Please note the words of Stephen (Acts 7:51,52):
Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One [Jesus]; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers.