Baptism's role in salvation/gospel? if there is any.

[fredoheaven]

Hi shrume,
Water baptism IS our crucifixion with Christ. Our burial with Him and our resurrection with Him ...to walk in newness of life.

What other scripture describes the death of the old man and the rebirth of the new man?

BTW, according to Heb 6:2 there is more than one type of baptism.
Water baptism, Spirit baptism, baptism of fire, baptism into Moses and the sea, baptism that Jesus said He was yet tp partake of, and I think there is one I've forgotten.
Paul may have writing of "one" baptism that "we" do, as opposed to the baptisms Jesus does.

Have you been crucified physically like the two malefactors? Have you been raised up from the dead physically? Just wondering why you brought this kind of stuff. Arent you teaching reincarnation? Help me to understand your belief or prove it in the bible.

 

[tourist]

A catholic told me that water baptism forgive your sin from you born till you baptized. It mean if you die in the time of baptism, you go to heaven without purgatory.

It doesn't matter you repent or not, you serious or not, ritual baptism it self bring forgiven.

Catholic is base on ritual, like satanic. If you say your mantra, devil will give you power. I hear a testimony from ex shaman

he have a mantra that able to destroying rock without touching.

I thought that Jesus dying on the cross for our sins brings forgiveness. At least that's what the bible says. I think that I'll go with that.

 

[mailmandan]

I thought that Jesus dying on the cross for our sins brings forgiveness. At least that's what the bible says. I think that I'll go with that.

Amen! Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers (Acts 10:43; 26:18; Romans 3:24-28 etc..). No Roman Catholic supplements needed.

 

[p_rehbein]

​...............

I thought that Jesus dying on the cross for our sins brings forgiveness. At least that's what the bible says. I think that I'll go with that.

 

[p_rehbein]

The Poll does not (in my opinion) properly present the role of water baptism within a Christians life.

Water baptism (commanded by Christ) is the first act of obedience by a new believer......or, should be. Water baptism does two important things.......

1) It proclaims to the Church that the baptized person has become a disciple of Christ and a fellow believer

2) It proclaims to the World that the baptized person is a blood bought, born again, child of God, and a disciple of Christ

 

[shadowPal07]

I believe that it is very much part of salvation....and that when we OBEY Christ and are baptized....our sins are washed away by the blood of Christ....and until we are baptized we are STILL IN our sins.

CAN we be save and DISOBEY Christ? Mk. 16:16 JESUS said: He that believes….. AND (meaning: PLUS/in ADDITON TO)… IS BAPTIZED shall be saved; he that believeth NOT shall be damned. Would someone who does NOT believe be baptized? I think not because to a NON-believer baptism would make NO sense.

I believe that the Eunuch and Philip backs up my belief. Act 2:38

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain… WATER:…. and the eunuch said, See, here is WATER;… what doth hinder me to be BAPTIZED. [v. 38] And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down ….both INTO the WATER,…… both PHILIP and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him.[V.39] And when they were come…. up OUT OF the WATER….The eunuch REJOICES AFTER his WATER baptism.

Then Peter said unto them, {1} Repent,… {2} AND {which means PLUS / In addition to}....{3} BE BAPTIZED….every one of you in the name of Jesus ... {4} FOR.... the {5} remission of sins, {6} AND....... ye shall {7} RECEIVE....the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 

[OneFaith]

It seems like you are tilting at windmills. A new believer who is baptized by immersion is not literally killed, not does he literally experience a miraculous resurrection. When he is immersed in water, that is symbolic of death and burial. And when he is raised up out of the water, that is symbolic of resurrection. So water baptism by immersion is symbolic of the spiritual death and burial of the former sinner, and the resurrection of the saint to "walk in newness of life". The fact that this is done in the Name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost gives it the spiritual significance that is inherent in water baptism.

Something which should be noted here is that the sinner who has turned to Christ has already experienced two other spiritual baptisms BEFORE water baptism. When he received the gift of the Holy Ghost, that was the action of Christ "baptizing WITH the Holy Ghost". At the same time the Holy Spirit baptizes or immerses the believer into the Body of Christ.

THE BAPTISM BY CHRIST
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire (Mt 3:11).

THE BAPTISM BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:12)

The Pentecostal doctrine that the "baptism IN the Holy Spirit" as evidenced by speaking in tongues is not in view. Why? Because Paul made it very clear that not all would speak in tongues, and today's tongues are quite different from biblical tongues.

I get what you guys are saying now, and where the misunderstanding is. Being buried and then raised in baptism is like how Christ was buried and raised. And if the meaning stopped there, I can see how it looks like a symbol instead of an actual thing, because you are thinking about it physically instead of spiritually.

There’s nothing magical about the water, just like there’s nothing magical about the Lord’s Supper- we are not physically taking the physical body and blood of Christ. However, it is not a symbol, because it is actually being done spiritually. During baptism something real is taking place spiritually- it is during baptism that God performs circumcision of the heart (Col2). If this is not actual and real, then heaven, hell, God, etc are not actually real.

Jesus said if you look at someone to lust after them, you’ve committed adultery, for to God what's spiritual is more real than what’s physical. Again if you hate your brother you are already guilty of murder. Why? Because you’ve done these things spiritually, even if you didn’t do them physically.

So physically eating and drinking the Lord’s Supper helps us remember, and it is obeying God to do so, but we are actually eating and drinking Christ’s body and blood spiritually. In the same way, physically being buried under the water for a second is obedience to God, but it is also actually joining Christ in dying, being buried, and being raised spiritually. “For do you not know that those who have been baptized into Christ have been baptized into His death?” ‘Into’- baptism is how we get into Christ in the first place, and those in Christ will be saved. You can’t pray your way into Christ, you can’t believe your way into Christ. You must be baptized into Christ.

 

[Nehemiah6]

During baptism something real is taking place spiritually- it is during baptism that God performs circumcision of the heart (Col 2).

What you are saying is that regeneration -- a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit within the heart and soul of a sinner -- occurs at baptism. And that is also what the traditionalist (RCC,EOC) churches teach.

But is that true, or is it not true that the sinner is born again when he repents and receives Christ as Lord and Savior? And is that not accompanied by the gift of the Holy Spirit, since only God the Holy Spirit can produce the New Birth. In the case of Cornelius and his household, the evidence of having received the Holy Spirit was when these Gentiles spoke in tongues. But it was only AFTER this was evident to the Jews and to Peter that he commanded them to be baptized. So the order is as follows:

GOSPEL PREACHED---> SINNERS SAVED AND REGENERATED---> WATER BAPTISM FOR BELIEVERS ONLY

GOSPEL PREACHED
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

SINNERS SAVED AND REGENERATED
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (Acts 10:44)

PROOF OF REGENERATION [in this instance, not always]
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter...(Acts 10:46)

WATER BAPTISM COMMANDED AND ADMINISTERED
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:48)

 

[shadowPal07]

Christ did not "recommend" baptism....He COMMANDED baptism thus baptism is not an option.
Considering Christ COMMANDED baptism one can not be saved when they "wait" rather than OBEY the commandment of Christ to be baptized.

Peter gave the commandment to those in attendance on Pentecost...
Act 2:38..Then Peter said unto them, {1} Repent, {2} AND {which means PLUS / IN ADDITION TO} {3} BE BAPTIIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ {4} for the remission of sins, {5} and ye shall receive {6} the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Can we be SAVED and be in DIS-obedience to Christ's commandments??

Baptism is a MUST for salvation...not an option.

Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto all those who OBEY Him {Hebrews 5:9}…therefore…those not in obedience to Him will not have eternal salvation <3

 

[MarcR]

Unless you've been hanged on a cross next to Christ prior to your salvation, I'd probably suggest being baptized in obedience to Christ.

Any person's salvation experience is otherwise suspect if they refuse baptism.

I agree except it doesn't need to be a cross. A hospital bed, a sinking ship, or an airplane about to crash work the same way.

 

[MarcR]

You contradict yourself. If water baptism is mandatory, then it is certainly part of being saved.

It is NOT mandatory to Salvation!

It is mandatory to obedience in one's Christian walk.

Lord means owner! If we call Jesus Lord, and we walk in disobedience; we are abusing His property.

 

[hornetguy]

In the case of Cornelius and his household, the evidence of having received the Holy Spirit was when these Gentiles spoke in tongues. But it was only AFTER this was evident to the Jews and to Peter that he commanded them to be baptized.

Think about this.... this is the only record of anything like this happening... receiving the Spirit before baptism, correct?

In my mind, this was a specific, one time only happening... it was for the express purpose of showing stubborn, self-righteous Jews who were refusing to baptize Gentiles that God accepted Gentiles as well as Jews. It was even stated.... "Look! They have received the Spirit! Now are you convinced that we should allow them to be baptized? "

This was not a pattern that was to be repeated... we still follow the original "plan"... this was a one-off event in order to convince hard-hearted/headed Jews that they were not the only ones who could be saved.

Just my thoughts on the incident.

 

[notuptome]

Think about this.... this is the only record of anything like this happening... receiving the Spirit before baptism, correct?

In my mind, this was a specific, one time only happening... it was for the express purpose of showing stubborn, self-righteous Jews who were refusing to baptize Gentiles that God accepted Gentiles as well as Jews. It was even stated.... "Look! They have received the Spirit! Now are you convinced that we should allow them to be baptized? "

This was not a pattern that was to be repeated... we still follow the original "plan"... this was a one-off event in order to convince hard-hearted/headed Jews that they were not the only ones who could be saved.

Just my thoughts on the incident.

Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit onto those present in the upper room and that was before Pentecost. The Holy Spirit is imparted the moment a man believes and receives Christ as his Savior. The eunuch was allowed water baptism after he professed to believe on Christ.

If you are not saved before you go into the water you are not saved when you come back out.

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

Water Baptism has it roots in a ceremonial law required when one has a desire to be a member of the kingdom of priests. Moses acting as our Father in heaven not seen as Lord was used to begin the ceremonial work with his brother Aaron who was used to typify, the Son of man seen. who was designed as the first priest after that un-changing order. His own sons needed to be officiated by Aaron . Not all Levites were members of the priesthood in the same capacity.

Aaron's sons where killed because their hearts were not right before God.

When a new member like the Son of man (Jesus) from the tribe of Judah desired to become part of that order .He was officiated by John from the tribe of Levi. Then Jesus could also baptize new members who had a desire to be part of the kingdom of priest. The Son of man was then as part of fulfilling the demonstration of our High Priest (not seen) was sent in to the dessert as our scapegoat .

The Jews were were investigating the qualification of that old testament ceremonial law.

Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.Joh 3:25

 

[mailmandan]

I believe that it is very much part of salvation....and that when we OBEY Christ and are baptized....our sins are washed away by the blood of Christ....and until we are baptized we are STILL IN our sins.

False. See posts #20 and #23. We are saved the moment that we believe in Christ/place faith in Christ for salvation (John 3:18; Acts 26:18; Romans 3:24-26) and obedience which FOLLOWS is WORKS and we are saved through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9). Can we be saved without obeying the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel? (Romans 1:16; 10:16) NO.

CAN we be save and DISOBEY Christ?

Can we disobey Christ by refusing to believe in Him and still be saved? (John 3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26) NO.

Mk. 16:16 JESUS said: He that believes….. AND (meaning: PLUS/in ADDITON TO)… IS BAPTIZED shall be saved; he that believeth NOT shall be damned.

Mark 16:16 - He who believes and is baptized will be saved (general cases without making a qualification for the unusual case of someone who believes but is not baptized) but he who does not believe will be condemned. The omission of baptized with "does not believe" shows that Jesus does not make baptism absolutely essential to salvation. Condemnation rests on unbelief, not on a lack of baptism. So salvation rests on belief. NOWHERE does the Bible say "baptized or condemned."

If water baptism is absolutely required for salvation, then why did Jesus not mention it in the following verses? (3:15,16,18; 5:24; 6:29,40,47; 11:25,26). What is the ONE requirement that Jesus mentions 9 different times in each of these complete statements? BELIEVES. *What happened to baptism? *Hermeneutics.

John 3:18 - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who (is not water baptized? - NO) does not believe is condemned already, because he has not (been water baptized? - NO) because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Would someone who does NOT believe be baptized? I think not because to a NON-believer baptism would make NO sense.

Many unbelievers have been water baptized in various false religions and cults, including the RCC and the Mormon church. I'm not talking about atheists, but those who merely believe "mental assent" in the existence and historical facts about Christ, YET do not truly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. In other words, they do not believe in Christ/place faith in Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Such people then go on to get water baptized as the means of receiving eternal life.

I believe that the Eunuch and Philip backs up my belief. Act 2:38

Acts 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain… WATER:…. and the eunuch said, See, here is WATER;… what doth hinder me to be BAPTIZED. [v. 38]And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down ….both INTO the WATER,…… both PHILIP and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him.[V.39] And when they were come…. up OUT OF the WATER….The eunuch REJOICES AFTER his WATER baptism.

What hindered him from being baptized? 37 Then Philip said, “If you believe with all your heart, you may.” And he answered and said, “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name. The eunuch was saved when he believed before receiving water baptism.

Then Peter said unto them, {1} Repent,… {2} AND {which means PLUS / In addition to}....{3} BE BAPTIZED….every one of you in the name of Jesus ... {4} FOR.... the {5} remission of sins, {6} AND....... ye shall {7} RECEIVE....the gift of the Holy Ghost.

In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first. Peter is saying "repent unto the remission of your sins," the same as in Acts 3:19. The clause "each one of you be baptized" is parenthetical. This is exactly what Acts 3:19 teaches except that Peter omits the parenthesis.

*Also compare the fact that these Gentiles in Acts 10:45 received the gift of the Holy Spirit (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) and this was BEFORE water baptism (Acts 10:47).

*In Acts 10:43 we read ..whoever believes in Him receives remission of sins. Again, these Gentiles received the gift of the Holy Spirit - Acts 10:45 - (compare with Acts 2:38 - the gift of the Holy Spirit) when they believed on the Lord Jesus Christ - Acts 11:17 - (compare with Acts 16:31 - Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved) BEFORE water baptism - Acts 10:47 - this is referred to as repentance unto life - Acts 11:18.

*So the only logical conclusion when properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture is that faith in Jesus Christ "implied in genuine repentance" (rather than water baptism) brings the remission of sins and the gift of the Holy Spirit (Luke 24:47; Acts 2:38; 3:19; 5:31; 10:43-47; 11:17,18; 15:8,9; 16:31; 26:18). *Perfect Harmony*

Christ did not "recommend" baptism....He COMMANDED baptism thus baptism is not an option.

If someone truly believes and is saved then why would they refuse to be water baptized? I can't think of one Christian I know that has refused water baptism after their conversion. Who did Christ say would be condemned? Those who are not baptized or those who do not believe? (Mark 16:16(b).

Considering Christ COMMANDED baptism one can not be saved when they "wait" rather than OBEY the commandment of Christ to be baptized.

These Gentiles in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit and were manifesting the spiritual gift of tongues (which is only for the body of Christ - 1 Corinthians 12) after believing the gospel but before being water baptized (Acts 10:44-48). This observation needs to be balanced, by the fact that baptism was not considered an "optional extra" for these Gentiles. It was a command (verse 48) that they were expected to obey. However, it was not obedience to this command that saved them, but their believing in Christ (verse 43).

Can we be SAVED and be in DIS-obedience to Christ's commandments??

If someone is truly saved, then why would they be in disobedience to Christ's command to get water baptized? Personally, I could not wait to get water baptized after I received Christ through faith several years ago! And I did receive water baptism as a SIGN of my conversion, but not as the means of my conversion.

Baptism is a MUST for salvation...not an option.

False. It logically follows that we get baptized after we believe the gospel, but if you are on your death bed (like the thief on the cross) and cannot get baptized before your death, you are still saved because you BELIEVE (Acts 10:43; Romans 1:16) which is in harmony with Mark 16:16(b)..but he who does not believe will be condemned. *NOWHERE does the Bible mention "water baptized or condemned."

Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto all those who OBEY Him {Hebrews 5:9}…therefore…those not in obedience to Him will not have eternal salvation <3

So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost?

I've heard many works salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works, yet *only genuine believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only genuine believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by keeping His commandments and practicing righteousness (1 John 2:3; 3:9,10). In either sense, only genuine believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

 

[OneFaith]

What you are saying is that regeneration -- a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit within the heart and soul of a sinner -- occurs at baptism. And that is also what the traditionalist (RCC,EOC) churches teach.

But is that true, or is it not true that the sinner is born again when he repents and receives Christ as Lord and Savior? And is that not accompanied by the gift of the Holy Spirit, since only God the Holy Spirit can produce the New Birth. In the case of Cornelius and his household, the evidence of having received the Holy Spirit was when these Gentiles spoke in tongues. But it was only AFTER this was evident to the Jews and to Peter that he commanded them to be baptized. So the order is as follows:

GOSPEL PREACHED---> SINNERS SAVED AND REGENERATED---> WATER BAPTISM FOR BELIEVERS ONLY

GOSPEL PREACHED
To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. (Acts 10:43)

SINNERS SAVED AND REGENERATED
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. (Acts 10:44)

PROOF OF REGENERATION [in this instance, not always]
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter...(Acts 10:46)

WATER BAPTISM COMMANDED AND ADMINISTERED
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. (Acts 10:48)

“Receiving Christ” indicates that Christ comes to you, when actually it is the other way around- we must seek Him out. “Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you as well.” “Search for Me with all your heart, and you shall find Me.” God purposely gave us a bible to study because He wants us to search for truth. The snake statue in the Old Testament that symbolized Christ, was not brought to people, people had to go to it to be saved from the snake bites. We need to come to God by way of baptism (born again). During baptism God performs circumcision of the heart by cutting away sin from our heart with Christ’s blood.

Yes, Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before baptism, but so did all the people who were saved in the Old Testament, yet they wouldn’t be saved just by having the Holy Spirit, they must have the blood of Christ. Payment for their sins was postponed until the cross, and Christ’s blood flowed backwards and forwards. Jesus died once for all- all in the past who obeyed God, and all in the future who would obey God. You know how at some restaurants you eat before you pay, and at others you pay before you eat? The payment of Christ’s blood can happen before or after you receive the Holy Spirit.

But having the Holy Spirit is not what saves you. Only one thing saves you- Christ’s blood. Hearing, believing, repenting, confessing, being baptized all save you only because they lead you to Christ’s blood. Peter said to repent and be baptized, and you will receive the Holy Spirit- he doesn’t say when, he just says you will. King Saul (the first king of Israel, actually the second cause God was their King) disobeyed God, and “the Spirit of God left him.” Therefore, in his case, his sins did not get postponed until the cross, because that grace was not applied to him, because it is only applied to those who obey God according to the covenant they live under.

The Holy Spirit marks you for salvation, but is not salvation. Just like when you go to a water park (lol) and they stamp your hand, so that it is recognized that either payment was received, or will be received because you wrote a check. But the mark is not payment, just as the Holy Spirit is not the blood of Christ that saves you. King Saul’s mark was removed, and he was kicked out of the park so-to-speak.

 

[notuptome]

“Receiving Christ” indicates that Christ comes to you, when actually it is the other way around- we must seek Him out. “Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added unto you as well.” “Search for Me with all your heart, and you shall find Me.” God purposely gave us a bible to study because He wants us to search for truth. The snake statue in the Old Testament that symbolized Christ, was not brought to people, people had to go to it to be saved from the snake bites. We need to come to God by way of baptism (born again). During baptism God performs circumcision of the heart by cutting away sin from our heart with Christ’s blood.

Yes, Cornelius received the Holy Spirit before baptism, but so did all the people who were saved in the Old Testament, yet they wouldn’t be saved just by having the Holy Spirit, they must have the blood of Christ. Payment for their sins was postponed until the cross, and Christ’s blood flowed backwards and forwards. Jesus died once for all- all in the past who obeyed God, and all in the future who would obey God. You know how at some restaurants you eat before you pay, and at others you pay before you eat? The payment of Christ’s blood can happen before or after you receive the Holy Spirit.

But having the Holy Spirit is not what saves you. Only one thing saves you- Christ’s blood. Hearing, believing, repenting, confessing, being baptized all save you only because they lead you to Christ’s blood. Peter said to repent and be baptized, and you will receive the Holy Spirit- he doesn’t say when, he just says you will. King Saul (the first king of Israel, actually the second cause God was their King) disobeyed God, and “the Spirit of God left him.” Therefore, in his case, his sins did not get postponed until the cross, because that grace was not applied to him, because it is only applied to those who obey God according to the covenant they live under.

The Holy Spirit marks you for salvation, but is not salvation. Just like when you go to a water park (lol) and they stamp your hand, so that it is recognized that either payment was received, or will be received because you wrote a check. But the mark is not payment, just as the Holy Spirit is not the blood of Christ that saves you. King Saul’s mark was removed, and he was kicked out of the park so-to-speak.

Christ sought us not us seeking Him.

Ro 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Donmech]

ive been thinking about this a lot. i did some topic reading on baptism and i do believe in rightly diving the word of truth.

but mark 16:16, acts 2:38, romans 6:3-4, galatians 3:27, matthew 28:19 and 1 peter 3:21 look like baptism is part of the gospel and essential for salvation or atleast very very important.

but then luke 24:47 acts 16:31 john 3:16 and romans 3:25 that dont mention baptism.

sorry guys i wont be posting all da verses i listed it would be too long of a message i think. ive been baptized btw so this isnt myself that im thinking of but just doctrine in da usual.

What is the role of baptism in salvation? Is it part of the Gospel for the church age in your opinion? i hope we dont start fighting about this.

Baptism according to scripture is a very important sacrament, however, Paul absolutely clears up the matter by completely removing baptism from the equation of Salvation. He plainly states that Jesus Christ said baptism was not a part of the Gospel, look at 1 Cor. 1:17, For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: This verse clearly removes baptism from the gospel. If baptism was required to be saved would Paul have minimized it? Read 1 Cor. 1:14 I think God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius. WOW! did Paul just lose his concern for lost people? Or, maybe it clears the water (NPI) about baptism be a part of Salvation. We must be concerned about obeying the commands of Christ, but we must also be careful to always rightly divide the word of God. Especially concerning our salvation. This passage of scripture alone should clear-up any question's about adding to the gospel of Christ. I think we should be very careful. God has done all the work for our salvation, our part is to believe it, turn from our sin, and be obedient. The first command of a Christian is to be baptized to identify with Him after we are saved. But , in no way according to Jesus Christ does baptism play any part in obtaining salvation. ( "Christ sent me not to baptize...")

 

[hornetguy]

Baptism according to scripture is a very important sacrament, however, Paul absolutely clears up the matter by completely removing baptism from the equation of Salvation. He plainly states that Jesus Christ said baptism was not a part of the Gospel, look at 1 Cor. 1:17, For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: This verse clearly removes baptism from the gospel. If baptism was required to be saved would Paul have minimized it? Read 1 Cor. 1:14 I think God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius. WOW! did Paul just lose his concern for lost people? Or, maybe it clears the water (NPI) about baptism be a part of Salvation. We must be concerned about obeying the commands of Christ, but we must also be careful to always rightly divide the word of God. Especially concerning our salvation. This passage of scripture alone should clear-up any question's about adding to the gospel of Christ. I think we should be very careful. God has done all the work for our salvation, our part is to believe it, turn from our sin, and be obedient. The first command of a Christian is to be baptized to identify with Him after we are saved. But , in no way according to Jesus Christ does baptism play any part in obtaining salvation. ( "Christ sent me not to baptize...")

You keep using this scripture to advance your belief system.... incorrectly.

That whole passage is about believers who were arguing over who is greater than the other, by virtue of who baptized them. Paul is NOT minimizing baptism, he is simply saying that I wasn't sent to see how many people I could physically baptize... I was sent to teach the gospel... and it doesn't matter who baptizes you.

You are taking this passage completely out of context, to try to "prove" your point. If baptism was not important to Paul, why did he immediately get up and get baptized as soon as God restored his sight? After 3 days with no food, he saw the urgency in being baptized even before eating?

This is the very definition of eisigesis....

 

[OneFaith]

Christ sought us not us seeking Him.

Ro 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

This means no one seeks after God completely. All fall short. Still, there are the righteous and the unrighteous, there are good people and bad people even though “no one is good but God”- again speaking of completely.