Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues

notuptome · Jun 27, 2017

You are taking Gal 3 out of context and applying it incorrectly. It has to do with salvation not signs. Jesus came first to His own who are Israel and only after they rejected Him did the gospel go out to the Gentiles.

The tower of Babel is the first occurrence of tongues. God confused the languages as a response to their rebellion. Israel when she was about to be carried away into captivity was warned by Isaiah that it would be by people who spoke to them with stammering tongues. Isaiah 28:11, Gen 11:9

For the cause of Christ
Roger

garee · Jun 27, 2017

GraceRevelation said:

You would first have to make a distinction between tongues and prophecy. The father of lies would have some believe there isno distinction as if it was all one. Prophecy is for those who believe the word of God. Tongues is a sign to those who believe not prophecy.

If no distinction is made then there can be no understanding. God is not the author of confusion.

Enow · Jun 27, 2017

notuptome said:

You can apply that towards believers hyping to saved believers to seek to receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation with evidence of tongues as if they did not receive the Holy Spirit as promised by faith in Jesus Christ at their salvation. That reference says otherwise... adding also Galatians 3:14 to it as reproof.

That was at a time when all the people spoke one language. That was when God gave different ethnics their own peculiar language to speak by which then they as a group of people did not understand what the other groups of people were saying. They no longer shared the same language.

That is not the supernatural tongue that tongue speakers are sporting which is vain and profane babbling gained by an apostasy of seeking to receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation.

Israel when she was about to be carried away into captivity was warned by Isaiah that it would be by people who spoke to them with stammering tongues. Isaiah 28:11, Gen 11:9

Isaiah 28:11 is about what christian tongue speakers are doing today; erring by way of wine; hence the Holy Spirit, thinking they can receive Him for the first time OR again after a sign of tongues separate from salvation which is why many fall backwards when they do so as they do in slain in the "Spirit" and being drunk in the "Spirit".

It is because of errant modern Bibles, a line there and a line here, they fall away from the faith as well as fall backwards in these movements of the "Spirit" when they err, thinking God's gift of tongues does not have to be used to speak unto the people, but used as a prayer language of the Holy Spirit when John 16:13 says the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues in that way in all modern Bibles, but because of the errant line in Romans 8:26-27 in all modern Bibles, they gloss over the truth about how the Holy Spirit speaks in John 16:13, and believe the error that He can use tongues as a prayer language.

Isaiah 28:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[SUP] 11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The Bible is not just a mirror. It can serve as a magnifying glass by using the meat of His words to discern good and evil by His words. Scripture can be used for the cause of Christ in that way too.

Hebrews 5:[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.[SUP]14 [/SUP]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:[SUP]14 [/SUP]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;[SUP]15 [/SUP]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Titus 3:[SUP]10 [/SUP]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP] 2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.............[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

So you can use the Bible as a magnifying glass on others too, and not just on yourself for the cause of Christ.

garee · Jun 27, 2017

If God was still brining new prophecy that could add to the existing you could have a point. What we did have in part up until the last new prophecy was given by God (Revelation 22) today we have the whole or perfect with no laws missing by which we could know God more adequately .We cannot go above that which is written

God does all the interpreting between two that neither know the language of the other they edify God who in return builds up His church. No such thing as self edification… a form of pride.

Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me.Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. 1Co 14:11

Y

He is not promoting self edification as an outward sign a person has the Holy Spirit. There is no work we could do that would prove we have the Holy Spirit.Rather we walk by faith (Christ's)

When God was still adding prophecy to His book of prophecy it was possible that God would work to interrupt his will between two people interpreting His thoughts to each in a conversation.

The encounter with Philipp and the eunuch could have come under the gift of God prophecy which works mutually in two. I know I am assuming but the eunuch could have been reading the scripture in his own language.

Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest? And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man? Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. Act 8:28-35.

The same could apply with Peter and the Italian who most likely spoke different languages in order to help Peter understand the prophecy of eating food that were once considered unclean .

Every time God does inspire his thoughts to another it does not say as a prompt… "prophecy is being transmitted", just like every time we find a parable it does not say… here is a parable .

notuptome · Jun 27, 2017

Enow said:

You can apply that towards believers hyping to saved believers to seek to receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation with evidence of tongues as if they did not receive the Holy Spirit as promised by faith in Jesus Christ at their salvation. That reference says otherwise... adding also Galatians 3:14 to it as reproof.

That was at a time when all the people spoke one language. That was when God gave different ethnics their own peculiar language to speak by which then they as a group of people did not understand what the other groups of people were saying. They no longer shared the same language.

That is not the supernatural tongue that tongue speakers are sporting which is vain and profane babbling gained by an apostasy of seeking to receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation.

Israel when she was about to be carried away into captivity was warned by Isaiah that it would be by people who spoke to them with stammering tongues. Isaiah 28:11, Gen 11:9

Isaiah 28:11 is about what christian tongue speakers are doing today; erring by way of wine; hence the Holy Spirit, thinking they can receive Him for the first time OR again after a sign of tongues separate from salvation which is why many fall backwards when they do so as they do in slain in the "Spirit" and being drunk in the "Spirit".

It is because of errant modern Bibles, a line there and a line here, they fall away from the faith as well as fall backwards in these movements of the "Spirit" when they err, thinking God's gift of tongues does not have to be used to speak unto the people, but used as a prayer language of the Holy Spirit when John 16:13 says the Holy Spirit cannot use tongues in that way in all modern Bibles, but because of the errant line in Romans 8:26-27 in all modern Bibles, they gloss over the truth about how the Holy Spirit speaks in John 16:13, and believe the error that He can use tongues as a prayer language.

Isaiah 28:[SUP]7 [/SUP]But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.[SUP]8 [/SUP]For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.[SUP]9 [/SUP]Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.[SUP]10 [/SUP]For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:[SUP] 11 [/SUP]For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.[SUP] 13 [/SUP]But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

The Bible is not just a mirror. It can serve as a magnifying glass by using the meat of His words to discern good and evil by His words. Scripture can be used for the cause of Christ in that way too.

Hebrews 5:[SUP]11 [/SUP]Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.[SUP] 12 [/SUP]For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.[SUP]13 [/SUP]For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.[SUP]14 [/SUP]But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

Ephesians 4:[SUP]11 [/SUP]And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;[SUP]12 [/SUP]For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:[SUP]13 [/SUP]Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:[SUP]14 [/SUP]That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;[SUP]15 [/SUP]But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

Titus 3:[SUP]10 [/SUP]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

2 Thessalonians 3:1Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:[SUP] 2 [/SUP]And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all men have not faith.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.[SUP] 4 [/SUP]And we have confidence in the Lord touching you, that ye both do and will do the things which we command you.[SUP] 5 [/SUP]And the Lord direct your hearts into the love of God, and into the patient waiting for Christ.[SUP] 6 [/SUP]Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us. [SUP]7 [/SUP]For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;.............[SUP]14 [/SUP]And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.[SUP] 15 [/SUP]Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.

So you can use the Bible as a magnifying glass on others too, and not just on yourself for the cause of Christ.

Thanks I just love it when the word of God discomfits those who fight against it.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

wolfwint · Jun 27, 2017

CS1 said:

I said Yes, I agree there are 2 baptisms (with the Holy Spirit while becoming gods child and the water baptism for to be witness infront of the world)

But I am not agree to a second baptism (second blessing) of the Holy Spirit, for empowerment.

In the context of the second baptism with the Holy Spirit we find in this foundation days of pentacosm following teachings. I mention first Reuben Torrey, then Charles F. Parham and then William Seymoure

Reuben A. Torrey wrote: “The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is an operation of the Holy Spirit distinct from and subsequent and additional to His regenerating work. A man may be regenerated by the Holy Spirit and still not be baptized with the Holy Spirit. In regeneration there is an impartation of life, and the one who receives it is saved; in the Baptism with the Holy Spirit there is an impartation of power and the one who receives it is fitted for service.”[SUP]4

[/SUP]

Charles F. Parham’s assignment to his students at Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas, was to ascertain how a New Testament believer knew he had received the Holy Spirit. His students presented him with the result of their inductive study of the New Testament, namely that speaking in tongues was the biblical pattern. As a direct outcome of this study, Agnes Ozman, a student, received the expected tongues on January 1, 1901.

Concerning healing, Seymour taught “sickness and disease are destroyed through the precious atonement of Jesus”. Through the atonement man’s physical body is sanctified “from inherited disease”. Jesus Christ will heal every case of disease. God the Father sent Jesus into the world, sanctified Him – spirit, soul and body – and gave Him for the imperfect bodies of men. Men ought to honor Jesus’ stripes, because “with his stripes we are healed”. “Every sickness is of the devil.” Jesus “was manifested to destroy the works of the devil”. [Isaiah 53:4,5; 1 John 3:8]
Seymour also taught before the Fall of Man [Genesis 3:6], man, “pure and happy…knew no sickness”. After “that unholy visitor came into the garden” man’s “system was poisoned”. That poison “has been flowing in the blood of all the human family down the ages until God spoke to His people and said, ‘I am the Lord that healeth thee’”.
Seymour further taught, “the children of Israel practiced divine healing”. David was healed of rheumatism. Seymour told of David’s healing saying,
“He hath born our griefs.” The meaning of the word griefs is sicknesses. Since Jesus bore men’s sicknesses, they should not have to bear them. Therefore, full salvation [deliverance form anything an individual needs to be delivered from – including sickness and disease] is available through Jesus’ atonement.[SUP]14

[/SUP]
Seymour defined Holy Ghost baptism as an “enduement of power for service and work and for sealing unto the day of redemption”.[SUP]15[/SUP] He stated it comes “upon the sanctified life”[SUP]16[/SUP] and is evidenced by speaking in tongues. However, concerning tongues he admonished,
“We are not seeking for tongues, but we are seeking the baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire. And when we receive it we shall be so filled with the Holy Ghost, that He Himself will speak in the power of the Spirit.”[SUP]17[/SUP]
Holy Ghost baptism “gives us [Christians] power to testify to a risen, resurrected Savior”[SUP]18[/SUP] and enables [Christians] to “lift up Christ…in His power to speak all the languages of the world”.[SUP]19[/SUP]
Seymour believed the same commission given to Jesus’ disciples to “Tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high” is also given to the Church.[SUP]20[/SUP] When a Christian is Holy Ghost baptized, he or she has their own Pentecost experience just as the disciples did on the Day of Pentecost.[SUP]21[/SUP] Experiencing Holy Ghost baptism is accepting Jesus “in all of His fullness”.[SUP]22[/SUP]
Seymour also taught Holy Ghost baptism is a requirement for inclusion in the “,marriage supper of the Lamb”. He stated, “Those that will be permitted to enter in are those who are justified, sanctified and baptized with the Holy Ghost – sealed unto the day of redemption.” He compared Holy Ghost baptized Christians to the five wise virgins and non-Holy Ghost baptized Christians to the five foolish virgins. Seymour’s teaching on this subject is an exegesis on Matthew 25:1-13.[SUP]23[/SUP] [SUP]

While Seymore was invitet to preach in a black nazarene pentecostal church in LA (1906) he claimed : nobody can be baptised in the Holy Spirit so long he has not expierienced the speaking in tongues.

Before Seymoure nobody taught this during the whole churchhistory and this teaching we can also not find in the bible.
[/SUP]

CS1 · Jun 27, 2017

wolfwint said:

I said Yes, I agree there are 2 baptisms (with the Holy Spirit while becoming gods child and the water baptism for to be witness infront of the world)

But I am not agree to a second baptism (second blessing) of the Holy Spirit, for empowerment.

In the context of the second baptism with the Holy Spirit we find in this foundation days of pentacosm following teachings. I mention first Reuben Torrey, then Charles F. Parham and then William Seymoure

Reuben A. Torrey wrote: “The Baptism with the Holy Spirit is an operation of the Holy Spirit distinct from and subsequent and additional to His regenerating work. A man may be regenerated by the Holy Spirit and still not be baptized with the Holy Spirit. In regeneration there is an impartation of life, and the one who receives it is saved; in the Baptism with the Holy Spirit there is an impartation of power and the one who receives it is fitted for service.”[SUP]4

[/SUP]

Charles F. Parham’s assignment to his students at Bethel Bible School in Topeka, Kansas, was to ascertain how a New Testament believer knew he had received the Holy Spirit. His students presented him with the result of their inductive study of the New Testament, namely that speaking in tongues was the biblical pattern. As a direct outcome of this study, Agnes Ozman, a student, received the expected tongues on January 1, 1901.

Concerning healing, Seymour taught “sickness and disease are destroyed through the precious atonement of Jesus”. Through the atonement man’s physical body is sanctified “from inherited disease”. Jesus Christ will heal every case of disease. God the Father sent Jesus into the world, sanctified Him – spirit, soul and body – and gave Him for the imperfect bodies of men. Men ought to honor Jesus’ stripes, because “with his stripes we are healed”. “Every sickness is of the devil.” Jesus “was manifested to destroy the works of the devil”. [Isaiah 53:4,5; 1 John 3:8]
Seymour also taught before the Fall of Man [Genesis 3:6], man, “pure and happy…knew no sickness”. After “that unholy visitor came into the garden” man’s “system was poisoned”. That poison “has been flowing in the blood of all the human family down the ages until God spoke to His people and said, ‘I am the Lord that healeth thee’”.
Seymour further taught, “the children of Israel practiced divine healing”. David was healed of rheumatism. Seymour told of David’s healing saying,
“He hath born our griefs.” The meaning of the word griefs is sicknesses. Since Jesus bore men’s sicknesses, they should not have to bear them. Therefore, full salvation [deliverance form anything an individual needs to be delivered from – including sickness and disease] is available through Jesus’ atonement.[SUP]14

[/SUP]
Seymour defined Holy Ghost baptism as an “enduement of power for service and work and for sealing unto the day of redemption”.[SUP]15[/SUP] He stated it comes “upon the sanctified life”[SUP]16[/SUP] and is evidenced by speaking in tongues. However, concerning tongues he admonished,
“We are not seeking for tongues, but we are seeking the baptism with the Holy Ghost and fire. And when we receive it we shall be so filled with the Holy Ghost, that He Himself will speak in the power of the Spirit.”[SUP]17[/SUP]
Holy Ghost baptism “gives us [Christians] power to testify to a risen, resurrected Savior”[SUP]18[/SUP] and enables [Christians] to “lift up Christ…in His power to speak all the languages of the world”.[SUP]19[/SUP]
Seymour believed the same commission given to Jesus’ disciples to “Tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem until ye be endued with power from on high” is also given to the Church.[SUP]20[/SUP] When a Christian is Holy Ghost baptized, he or she has their own Pentecost experience just as the disciples did on the Day of Pentecost.[SUP]21[/SUP] Experiencing Holy Ghost baptism is accepting Jesus “in all of His fullness”.[SUP]22[/SUP]
Seymour also taught Holy Ghost baptism is a requirement for inclusion in the “,marriage supper of the Lamb”. He stated, “Those that will be permitted to enter in are those who are justified, sanctified and baptized with the Holy Ghost – sealed unto the day of redemption.” He compared Holy Ghost baptized Christians to the five wise virgins and non-Holy Ghost baptized Christians to the five foolish virgins. Seymour’s teaching on this subject is an exegesis on Matthew 25:1-13.[SUP]23[/SUP] [SUP]

While Seymore was invitet to preach in a black nazarene pentecostal church in LA (1906) he claimed : nobody can be baptised in the Holy Spirit so long he has not expierienced the speaking in tongues.

Before Seymoure nobody taught this during the whole churchhistory and this teaching we can also not find in the bible.
[/SUP]

Ok yes agree you going to laugh but the "Theological Pentecostal doctrine " doesn't support aka second blessing . In fact in one of the Threads I started on a few months ago " Acts /1cor 12, 13, 14 baptsim in the HG and gifts of the Spirit"

in this thread I stated :

What the baptism of the Holy Spirit is NOT:

1. It is not " The Second Definite Work of Grace" I have heard some use this term but I have not seen it in the bible nor have more qualfied teachers than I. If there is second then maybe a 3rd or 4th too? I believe in the continual growth in grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Pet 3:18)

2. it is not the Second Blessing again if there is a second why not a 3rd or 4th? I do not believe this to be a biblical expression used in the bible.
3. it is not Sanctification That is long topic and I will just say that right now but "Sanctification" is part of the Chritians daily
life. (LV 27:14)
4. it is not the New Birth The Baptisim with the Holy Spirit is subsequent to, and distinct from , The Lords Regenerative Work.

CS1 · Jun 27, 2017

notuptome said:

Enow said:

I think you are wrong .

you keep speaking about Babel this has nothing to do with the context of tongues in 1 cor chapter 12, 13, 14 or Acts 2.

"That is not the supernatural tongue that tongue speakers are sporting which is vain and profane babbling gained by an apostasy of seeking to receive the Holy Spirit separate from salvation."

again it is your opinion but it is not founded on any biblical passages . The Gifts of The Holy Spirit are not apostasy . No one is sporting anything . you have not provided any context to refute the understanding of many in context to 1 Corinthians chapter 12, 13, 14 or Acts 2 or Mark 16. The Tower of Babel has nothing to do with the empowering of the Church recorded in Acts. Those who do not agree with the gifts even know that .

wolfwint · Jun 27, 2017

CS1 said:

My point is not the " second blessing", my point is what the founders of the pentecostal Theologie claimed. And spread into the wold. I dont believe that God is an Initiator of an false teaching. All pentecostals are seeing in the events of Azusa Street the beginning of the pentecostal movement. So if they following false teachers? As this movement came to Germany in 1907, they had to call the Police to stop it in Kassel, because the believers were out of controle, they noised and acted like animals, screamed, falled backwards down, were in ecstase. I dont know any scripture where it is mentioned that the Holy Spirit is acting in this way when he came over the believers.
No wonder that the most denominations saw in the pentecostal movement a Spirit from down.
And it has not changed till today. Instead it became Support from the charismatic movements. Which created much more false teachings. So what are the benefits of praying, speaking and singing in tongues, if you are not Shure which Spirit is behind it and enable you to do it.
If it is the pentecostal Spirit from 1906,is it a false Spirit.
Maby many forget that the devil is also called angel of Light. If God would behind, then this second baptism we would find as an normal event in all christian denomination. Long before 1900 and not as an movement which splitt the christians. We would find this in the doctrine of the early church and through the churchhistory.

notuptome · Jun 27, 2017

CS1 said:

You are pursuing higher education in religion. Going for a doctorate eventually if I recall. You certainly have received training in systematic theology. That would I hope indicate that you understand or at least recognize the importance of first reference in the bible.

Before Babel the whole world had one language or tongue. After Babel mans languages or tongues were confounded. This was as the passage in Genesis indicates a result of God judging mankind for their rebellious attempt to get up in the face of God and be like God.

Tongues in the apostolic church is God in His mercy making it possible for all men without regard to their tongue being able to hear and comprehend the gospel message. For the Jews it was a sign that Gentiles were being saved and impressing the message that they were being judged for their calling for the blood of Christ over Barabbas.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

plainguy · Jun 27, 2017

notuptome said:

Tongues in the apostolic church is God in His mercy making it possible for all men without regard to their tongue being able to hear and comprehend the gospel message. For the Jews it was a sign that Gentiles were being saved and impressing the message that they were being judged for their calling for the blood of Christ over Barabbas.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

In a nutshell ... pure and unadulterated.

CS1 · Jun 27, 2017

wolfwint said:

My point is not the " second blessing", my point is what the founders of the pentecostal Theologie claimed. And spread into the wold. I dont believe that God is an Initiator of an false teaching. All pentecostals are seeing in the events of Azusa Street the beginning of the pentecostal movement. So if they following false teachers? As this movement came to Germany in 1907, they had to call the Police to stop it in Kassel, because the believers were out of controle, they noised and acted like animals, screamed, falled backwards down, were in ecstase. I dont know any scripture where it is mentioned that the Holy Spirit is acting in this way when he came over the believers.
No wonder that the most denominations saw in the pentecostal movement a Spirit from down.
And it has not changed till today. Instead it became Support from the charismatic movements. Which created much more false teachings. So what are the benefits of praying, speaking and singing in tongues, if you are not Shure which Spirit is behind it and enable you to do it.
If it is the pentecostal Spirit from 1906,is it a false Spirit.
Maby many forget that the devil is also called angel of Light. If God would behind, then this second baptism we would find as an normal event in all christian denomination. Long before 1900 and not as an movement which splitt the christians. We would find this in the doctrine of the early church and through the churchhistory.

the founder's of all denominations have made changes to the doctrines as thing have come more clearer. The point is the correction has been made. and the context of 1cor 12, 13, and 14 are as it is given tongues are for today and people abuse all the gifts .

Enow · Jun 27, 2017

DJ2 said:

By the testimony by which they have gained that tongue. If they claim they got tongues when they felt what they believe was the Holy Spirit coming over them separate from salvation in bringing that tongue, then it is not God's gift of tongues, because that was not the real holy Spirit coming over them when He was already in them by faith in Jesus Christ at their salvation.

Discern this with Him.

How do you get other gifts of the Spirit? By receiving the Holy Spirit separate from salvation? No. Then why does tongues has to come that way? Especially when it never comes with interpretation; how can any one claim that is God's gift of tongues when it does not speak unto the people in their native tongue?

CS1 · Jun 27, 2017

notuptome said:

I'm sure what you mean pursuing higher education . I have cute things on my wall already and they do not change the context of how Gen 11 in context to the Tower of babel . as Paul said I count it as dun.

Nor does it change the normative of the gifts of the Holy Spirit
recorded in 1 cor chapter 12, 13, and 14 and the Book of Acts.

the importance of the first reference in Gen 11 is God had yet again stop man from doing what offended HIM. Which God dealt with in just 9 verses . this event never happen again it was descriptive.

to suggest these 9 verses have any context with What Jesus said in Mark 16:15-20,

Luke in Acts 2:4-38 , Acts 9:17 Acts 10:45,

Paul 1 cor chapters 12, 13, and 14 .

is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

four verses in gen 11th chapter is some how contextually linked to the Gift of the Holy Spirit is error . Or maybe it is a distraction or attempt to discredit the gift of tongues because it was used to stop sin in Gen 11 . tongue(s) in the old testament Hebrew is 1. languages of people 2. the organ in the mouth used to speak with.

it was not babbling in incoherently speaking , or gibberish in Hebrew translation. gen 11 context was and is God changed the native language of the nation to one they did not understand; at the time God Changed it. To stop communication and cause confusion. This clearly did not remain because as time passed the people started communicating. This should bring understanding the languages God changed were actual languages not incoherently, or gibberish.
.
gen 11 God dealt with the sin of a nation. Changed spoken languages to stop evil agenda of a king and it's people.

Gift of the Holy Spirit and the gifts of the Spirit given to Believers (saved) to help build up, comfort, and edify .
tongues recorded in Acts and 1 Corinthians was a gift to the church . tongues did not as you say make possible the mercy for all men; Christ alone did that.

The importance of the gifts of the Holy Spirit is the context of 1 cor chapter 12, 13, and 14. Acts is the fulfillment of what Jesus said would happen after HE went to the Father.

notuptome · Jun 27, 2017

CS1 said:

Whatever you want to think is fine with me.

Tongues were a consequence of sin. All men were of one tongue until sin corrupted men to contest with God. Judgment was the confounding of the tongue into tongues. Hardly get any easier than that.

Mark 16:15-20 is hardly reliable for doctrine.

We've been over this many times and will continue to disagree until you change.

Now you are pontificating.

I never claimed they were. I have always held to human languages and criticized those who claim babblings as ecstatic utterance as taught in the scriptures.

And reminded Israel again in Isaiah they were a sign of impending captivity.

Only partly true. Tongues were given as a sign. 1 Cor 14:21-22 Jesus promises the apostles and disciples power to be witnesses to Him before the whole world.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

CS1 · Jun 27, 2017

notuptome said:

no tongues was not the consequence of sin the actions of men and the king and the nation was the context of sin .God just changed the languages .

wow the Scriptures in mark 16 with all the other scriptures are not reliable for doctrine ?

but your 9 verses in Chapter 11 of Genesis is ? lol

were done I cannot speak with you on this topic you when you are provided with scriptural support to the point you insult. and misrepresent.

you can build what ever you want on the 9 verses in Gen 11 and attack the chapters in 1 cor 12, 13, and 14 .

you also stated until I change lol just as soon as 1 cor chapter 12, 13, 14 do .

you and I can no longer speak you are very rude and condescending. and to be far other have been that to you. I will not engage in that . you are also very arrogant in your response to me too.

bring up my education I did not appreciate you doing so . so please I need no more dialog with you on this topic ok.

Thank you .

wolfwint · Jun 27, 2017

CS1 said:

What correction? Without the doctrine of the second baptism and as sign for this speaking in tongues we would have today no pentecostals. What we have today is that all works together for an oekomene of cost of the truth.
Of course you cant say that Seymoure and Parham was wrong,, because then the whole movement would be wrong. But you can say what you want. This teachings have no Base. Nor in the scripture nor in the churchhistory.
Its a man made produktion with Support of false spirits.
117 years after foundation it becomes more and more clearer

CS1 · Jun 27, 2017

wolfwint said:

Not true Wolfwint as i stated the term second baptism is not a correct term according to Pentecostal theology . actually Wolfwint one could say they were wrong . The so-called movement was not done by them but the Holy Spirit as through the ages there has been many movements of God unless you think the reformation was of man and not of God?

are you saying everything martin Luther said was correct? everything John Calvin said was correct ? those men used by God are fully authoritative the same as Gods written word ? I hope you hold the same standard to all and not just Seymour and Parham lol .

The teaching has the foundation in the very word of God. Both prophecy and tongues are known as " the initial evidence. The second blessing would not be correct because that could lead to a third and forth.

The gift of the Holy Spirit is for today . Jesus Christ is told to be the Baptizer in the Holy Ghost in John s gospel Seymour did not write that . the empowering of the Holy Spirit came after they were saved John 20:22 salvation. Acts 2 empowerment Jesus had been with them for 40 after HE resurrected then HE ascended.
saying they were wrong is not hard for me because the context of the empowerment of the Holy Spirit has not changed . it is in the persons who the Spirit comes on and IN that changed as if we study the empowering of the Holy Spirit is not some new concept created by a one eyed preacher during a a very racial time. NO. The same Spirit empowered Moses, Elijah, Elisha , Sampson, David, and all the prophets John the Baptist and even the Spirit on the Lord Jesus . what changed is now all who know Christ have the Holy Spirit John 14 and 16 The same Spirit in the Old testament that came upon Kings Rulers, Priest,Prophets now not only comes upon us by will be within you.

No the word of God is what stands .

wolfwint · Jun 27, 2017

CS1 said:

If you say John 20, 22 means that the apostles are saved.What then with Thomas? He was not among them.
According your statement only Pentecostals and Charismatics are empowered with the Holy Spirit. All other christians not. Because only they claim to have the sign gifts, except of many cults, which proved that they are empowered.
Yes, you are right, non of the reformators was 100% right in their doctrine! But the different to the pentecostal ore even charismatic movements is, that these movements claim that the Holy Spirit is the Initiator. So far I know non of all other denominations claim this from their doctrine.

88 · Jun 28, 2017

Praying in Tongues/Healing ***I heard a good testimony of a preacher traveling overseas and was served eel and it made him sick***he was sick for a couple of days and felt terrible***he came back from preaching feeling very bad and fell on his bed and went to sleep and woke up the next day totally well***his wife told him he was praying in tongues all night in his sleep...

Benefits of Speaking, Praying, and Singing in Tongues

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