Biblically has God ever used a woman to teach men His truths?

trofimus · Apr 29, 2017

I found it - Stromata 3:6:63

Yes, female deacons serving to females only. It seems to me that Clement is writing about the wives of apostles, though...

wolfwint · Apr 29, 2017

Demi777 said:

So God is injustice?

trofimus · Apr 29, 2017

Ariel82 said:

Not sure what you mean by this... that Junia was a female apostle?

wolfwint · Apr 29, 2017

Ariel82 said:

The verse also can be read that Junia/Junias was well know nicht from the apostles. So you can interprete in 2 directions. She/He was one of the apostles ore she/he was well known/ had a good call among the apostles.

samuel23 · Apr 29, 2017

Christians need to be very careful in this area because God created a clear distinction between men and women and at this time in history it is obvious that Satan is trying to get rid of that difference. Our country has changed from a scripturally gender conscious country into a country that is almost void of respect for the difference that God has created between male and female. Many women today, definitely in the world and also in the church, are actually trying to be men but without the extra appendage, it is nauseating. Women are a special creation of God and certainly do not need to be like a man in order to be in the will of God. Because of the time that we are in, we have folks trying to change the bible so that it will fit the present ungodly attitude about men and women...even if we convince each other we will never convince God.

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

Colossians 4:15

New International Version
Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.

New Living Translation
Please give my greetings to our brothers and sisters at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church that meets in her house.

English Standard Version
Give my greetings to the brothers at Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her house.

New American Standard Bible
Greet the brethren who are in Laodicea and also Nympha and the church that is in her house.

King James Bible
Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

The KJV strikes again, changing Nympha to Nymphas. There seems to be a purposeful change in the KJV to downplay the use of women in the church.

trofimus · Apr 29, 2017

Stephen63 said:

King James Bible
Salute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

American King James Version
Salute the brothers which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

American Standard Version
Salute the brethren that are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church that is in their house.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Salute the brethren who are at Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church that is in his house.

Darby Bible Translation
Salute the brethren in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the assembly which [is] in his house.

English Revised Version
Salute the brethren that are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church that is in their house.

Webster's Bible Translation
Salute the brethren who are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

Weymouth New Testament
Christian greetings to the brethren at Laodicea, especially to Nymphas, and to the Church that meets at their house.

World English Bible
Greet the brothers who are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the assembly that is in his house.

Young's Literal Translation
salute ye those in Laodicea -- brethren, and Nymphas, and the assembly in his house;

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

Holman Christian Standard Bible
Give my greetings to the brothers in Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church in her home.

International Standard Version
Give my greetings to the brothers in Laodicea, especially to Nympha and the church that is in her house.

NET Bible
Give my greetings to the brothers and sisters who are in Laodicea and to Nympha and the church that meets in her house.

New Heart English Bible
Greet the brothers who are in Laodicea, and to Nympha and the church that is in her house.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Invoke the peace of the brethren in Laidiqia and of Numpha and of the church which is in his house.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Greet our brothers and sisters in Laodicea, especially Nympha and the church that meets in her house.

New American Standard 1977
Greet the brethren who are in Laodicea and also Nympha and the church that is in her house.

Expositor's Greek Testament
Colossians 4:15. Νυμφαν may be masculine (Νυμφᾶν) or feminine (Νύμφαν). The Doric form, Νύμφαν, is improbable; on the other hand the contracted form, Νυμφᾶν, is rare. If αὐτῶν is read, either is possible. Otherwise the decision is made by the choice between αὐτοῦ and αὐτῆς. It seems probable that αὐτῶν was due to change by a scribe who included ἀδελφ. in the reference. And a scribe might alter the feminine, assuming that a woman could not have been mentioned in this way. The attestation of αὐτῆς is very strong, though numerically slight. The Church in her house was a Laodicean Church, distinct apparently from the chief Church of the town.

Pulpit Commentary
Verse 15. - Salute the brethren that are in Laodicea (ver. 13; Colossians 2:1; Revelation 1:11; Revelation 3:14-22). Perhaps the brethren in Hierapolis (ver. 13) were not formed into a distinct Church as yet (comp. Colossians 2:1). The Church in Laodicea early became a flourishing and wealthy community (Revelation 3:17). And Nympha (or, Nymphas), and the Church (literally, assembly) at her (or, their) house.Νύμφαν may be either masculine or feminine accusative. The reading "her" (αὐτῆς) is adopted by Westcott and Hort without alternative, and seems on the whole the most probable. The Revised Text follows Tischendorf, Tregelles, Meyer, Alford, Lightfoot, who read "their" (αὐτῶν). "His" (αὐτοῦ) is evidently a later correction. Lightfoot says, indeed, that "a Doric form of the Greek name (sc.Νύμφαν for Νύμφην) seems in the highest degree improbable;" but he allows, on the other hand, that Νυμφᾶς as a contracted masculine form (for Νυμφόδωρος) "is very rare." This person was apparently a leading member of the Laodicean Church, at whose house Church meetings were held (comp. Acts 12:12; Philemon 1:2; Romans 16:5; 1 Corinthians 16:19). "The Church at her house" can scarcely have been an assembly distinct "from the brethren that are in Laodicea." Both expressions may relate to the same body of persons, referred first individually, then collectively as a meeting gathered at this place. Others suppose a more private gathering to be meant, as e.g. of Colossians living at Laodicea (Meyer). Many older interpreters identified this Church with the household of Nymphas. If "their" be the true reading, the expression must include Nympha and her family. Nympha (or Nymphas), like Philemon and his family, St. Paul had doubtless met in Ephesus.

trofimus · Apr 29, 2017

Nestle GNT 1904
Ἀσπάσασθε τοὺς ἐν Λαοδικίᾳ ἀδελφοὺς καὶ Νύμφαν καὶ τὴν κατ’ οἶκον αὐτῆς ἐκκλησία.

Westcott and Hort 1881
Ἀσπάσασθε τοὺς ἐν Λαοδικίᾳ ἀδελφοὺς καὶ Νύμφαν καὶ τὴν κατ' οἶκον αὐτῆς ἐκκλησίαν.

RP Byzantine Majority Text 2005
Ἀσπάσασθε τοὺς ἐν Λαοδικείᾳ ἀδελφούς, καὶ Νυμφᾶν, καὶ τὴν κατ’ ο ἴκον αὐτοῦ ἐκκλησίαν.

Greek Orthodox Church 1904
ἀσπάσασθε τοὺς ἐν Λαοδικείᾳ ἀδελφοὺς καὶ Νυμφᾶν καὶ τὴν κατ’ οἶκον αὐτοῦ ἐκκλησίαν·

Tischendorf 8th Edition
ἀσπάζομαι ὁ ἐν Λαοδίκεια ἀδελφός καί Νυμφᾶς καί ὁ κατά οἶκος αὐτός ἐκκλησία

Scrivener's Textus Receptus 1894
ἀσπάσασθε τοὺς ἐν Λαοδικείᾳ ἀδελφοὺς, καὶ Νύμφαν, καὶ τὴν κατ’ οἶκον αὐτοῦ ἐκκλησίαν.

Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
Ἀσπάσασθε τοὺς ἐν Λαοδικείᾳ ἀδελφοὺς καὶ Νύμφαν καὶ τὴν κατ' οἶκον αὐτοῦ ἐκκλησίαν.

----------------------

I do not think this is of some high importance though, even if Nympha/s was female, it only says that church assemblies were held in her house, not that she was leader of the church...

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

http://www.baylor.edu/content/services/document.php/98759.pdf

Female Preaching inEarly Nineteenth-CenturyAmerica

By Catherine A . Brekus

In the Second Great Awakening more than one hundred women crisscrossed the country as itinerant preachers,holding meetings in barns, schools, or outside in fields.They were the first group of women to speak publicly in America. Why have virtually all of them been forgotten?

Some argued that she was “bold and shameless,” a disgrace to her family and to the evangelical movement. Others insisted that she was the“instrument of God,” a humble woman who had given up everythingfor Christ.Few women in early nineteenth-century America provoked more admiration,criticism, and controversy than Harriet Livermore. She was the daughter of a congressman and the grand-daughter of a senator, but after an emotional conversion experience, she renounced her privileged life in order to become a female preacher. Reputed to be a gifted evangelist who was also a beautiful singer, she became so popular that she was allowed to preach in front of Congress four times between 1827 and 1844, each time to huge crowds. According to a Washington newspaper, more than a thousand people assembled in the Hall of Representatives to hear her preach in 1827,and hundreds more gathered outside to catch a glimpse of her. President John Quincy Adams had to sit on the steps leading up to her feet because he could not find a free chair.

to be continued

wolfwint · Apr 29, 2017

Ariel82 said:

I read Several german translations like Luther, Elberfelder, Zuricher these may used from different denominations ( also from those who have woman Pastors, like Baptists ore the evangelische Kirche/ Lutheren ) . So the translation seems not the problem. It is more the reader, as you say!
I found an biblical truth? If you go through the bible you will find that the mass was always wrong in their decisions.
Today the most denominations and churches have woman Pastors.

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

trofimus said:

Scripture would have mentioned the elder only, because it didn't matter whose house it was in.

The majority of churches in the NT was multiple house churches. Titus was over all the house churches in Crete, not just one.

So it was with Timothy with the house churches in Ephesus.

The names of the other home owners were never mentioned, but hers was because she was the elder.

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

continued.....

Harriet Livermore was the best-known female preacher of her day, butshe was part of a larger community of evangelical women, both white andAfrican-American, who claimed to have been divinely inspired to preach the gospel. Between 1790 and 1845, during the revivals that historians haveidentified as the “Second Great Awakening,” more than one hundredwomen crisscrossed the country as itinerant preachers. Holding meetingsin barns, schools, or outside in fields when they were barred from churches,they were the first group of women to speak publicly in America.1Despite their fame in the early nineteenth century, virtually all of theseremarkable women have been forgotten. Who were they? Why did someevangelical churches welcome them into the pulpit? And why have theydisappeared from historical memory?

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

Harriet Livermore was raised in an affluent family, but most female preachers belonged to the lower or lower-middling classes, and few had been formally educated. Quoting a passage from the Gospel of Matthew,“So the last shall be first, and the first last,” they claimed that God had called them to proclaim the gospel despite their poverty, their lack of education, and their sex (Matthew 20:16). All of them insisted that they had not wanted to take up the “cross” of preaching, but when they had tried to deny their calls, God had overcome their fears by promising to guide and protect them. Portraying themselves as “instruments” of God, “pens in his hand,” or “clay in the hands of the potter,” they claimed that he had made the same promise to them that he had once made to the prophet Jeremiah:“Behold, I have put my words in thy mouth” (Jeremiah 1:9, KJV). They insisted that when they stood in the pulpit, they did not speak their own words, but God’s.

wolfwint · Apr 29, 2017

Stephen63 said:

Scripture would have mentioned the elder only, because it didn't matter whose house it was in.

The majority of churches in the NT was multiple house churches. Titus was over all the house churches in Crete, not just one.

So it was with Timothy with the house churches in Ephesus.

The names of the other home owners were never mentioned, but hers was because she was the elder.

This is just an assumption. There is no proof for that.

trofimus · Apr 29, 2017

Stephen63 said:

1. We do not know if "she" is the right way to go

2. We do not know anything about the situation, only one greeting. So we should not make conclusions.

Maybe it was the only suitable house for church meetings and she had unbelieving husband maybe and it took much eford from her side to make it happen. So Paul could be just nice and greeted her namely... there can be so many situations, we simply can not know.

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

continued.....

Most Protestant churches in the early nineteenth century opposed female preaching on the grounds that it violated the Pauline injunction to“Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law” (1 Corinthians 14:34-35, KJV). They also cited two other Pauline texts: “the head of the woman is the man” (1 Corinthians 11:3b, KJV), and“Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence”(1 Timothy 2:11-12, KJV). As the General Assembly of the Presbyterians declared in 1832, “to teach and exhort, or to lead in prayer, in public and promiscuous assemblies, is clearly forbidden to women in the Holy Oracles.”2 In the nineteenth century, the word “promiscuous” was often used to describe mixed audiences of men and women, but the word also suggested sexual immorality and licentiousness. Many ministers argued that Christian women who invited men to stare at them in public, even to proclaim the gospel, were no better than prostitutes. Although women could teach Sunday School, serve as foreign missionaries, and even exhort others to repent, they could not violate the rules of female modesty—or usurp male authority—by standing in the masculine space of the pulpit.

Imagine that..... serve as a foreign missionary, the elder head of a whole area of a country, starting new churches throughout that country & making rounds like the apostles did.

Several denominations do this..... allow them to teach men in other countries, but not in their own.

Talk about ecclesiastical hypocrisy.....

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

continued.....

Yet even though the largest, most influential churches in the early nineteenth century forbade women to preach, particularly the Congregationalists, the Presbyterians, and the Episcopalians, a small number of new, dissenting sects challenged the restrictions on women’s religious speech. After the First Amendment declared that “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,” state legislatures disestablished the colonial churches, stripping them of the power to collect taxes for their support.(Before the American Revolution, almost every state had an established church that was financially supported by the government.) In this new, free marketplace of religion, churches had to rely on persuasion rather than coercion to attract members,and the formerly established churches faced stiff competition from upstart religious groups who had been inspired by the populist rhetoric of the American Revolution. Anti-authoritarian, anti-intellectual, and often visionary, they deliberately set themselves apart from the “worldliness” of established churches by insisting that God could choose anyone—even the poor, uneducated, enslaved, or female—to spread the gospel. Nothing better symbolized their counter-cultural identity than their willingness to allow large numbers of women into the pulpit.

Ariel82 · Apr 29, 2017

wolfwint said:

Yeah and years ago most churches had NO WOMEN preachers, does that mean they set wrong and women preachers were okay then?

Your logic doesn't make any sense.

Stephen63 · Apr 29, 2017

continued.....

The evangelicals that allowed women to preach—the Freewill Baptists,the Christian Connection, the northern Methodists, the African Methodists,and the Millerites (the predecessors of the Seventh-day Adventists)—were motivated by both practical and theological considerations. On the practical level, all of these sects lacked enough male ministers to keep pace with their spectacular growth in the early nineteenth century, and desperate for help,they relied on women as well as men to lead meetings and to organize new churches. They also found it difficult to control what happened during emotional camp meetings, where converts often cried out for mercy, begged God for forgiveness, and even fainted to the ground. In one of the most famous camp meetings in American history, held in Cane Ridge, Kentuckyin 1801, converts not only swooned and “jerked” uncontrollably, but even growled and barked like dogs. In this tumultuous atmosphere, anything seemed possible—even female preaching.

Biblically has God ever used a woman to teach men His truths?

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