Can Salvation be lost?
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Descriptive passages and prescriptive passages? What about Jesus' explanation of the parable of the sower? Is it a descriptive passage or a prescriptive passage? It seems on point in regards to loss of salvation. In it Jesus talks about people who have received the word but then fall away. Is it true that that can happen?
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” (Matthew 13:18-23)
18 “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: 19 When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. 20 The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. 21 But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. 22 The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. 23 But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” (Matthew 13:18-23)
Remember, faith without works or fruits is a dead faith. The thorns and rocky ground folks have ineffective faith. The elect have true faith, consider Peter and how he said of Jesus " you are the Son of the living God" Jesus said "bless you Peter, for this truth has not been taught to you by man, but was revealed to you by The Father in heaven".
The worldly, non elect can't come into true faith.
The worldly, non elect can't come into true faith.
True, but Jesus said that the seed falling on rocky ground is someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. So apparently they had faith (received the word) for some period of time before they fell away.
This is the situation I had in mind in the OP. Someone who receives the word with joy, has true faith, and apparently has salvation. But then for whatever reason they fall away into disbelief. We all know people who fit this description. Did they lose their salvation? Or--even though their faith may have been as strong as anyone else's at one time--perhaps they didn't have salvation in the first place?
fwiw, I am on the fence with this issue. I suspect that the idea of salvation that cannot be lost is comforting to some. But I'm just not sure about that.
This is the situation I had in mind in the OP. Someone who receives the word with joy, has true faith, and apparently has salvation. But then for whatever reason they fall away into disbelief. We all know people who fit this description. Did they lose their salvation? Or--even though their faith may have been as strong as anyone else's at one time--perhaps they didn't have salvation in the first place?
fwiw, I am on the fence with this issue. I suspect that the idea of salvation that cannot be lost is comforting to some. But I'm just not sure about that.
If they have failed it is in the area of sanctification not salvation. If we consider the four conditions presented it would be natural to conclude that three of the four conditions resulted in a failed gospel. Really the only condition that failed is the first where the seed never germinated.
Only the last brought forth the abundance that was expected but where the seed germinated although it was later overcome and never brought forth an increase it did initiate life. Demas is a good example of one who lost great rewards because he considered the sacrifice to serve Christ too severe.
Do not allow difficulties in sanctification to cast doubt on salvation. Sanctification clearly demonstrates why we cannot save or keep ourselves saved. What Christ accomplishes is eternal and what we endeavor to accomplish (serve Him) is far less certain. John gives us hope in that when we fail Jesus is faithful and forgives us our failure.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Only the last brought forth the abundance that was expected but where the seed germinated although it was later overcome and never brought forth an increase it did initiate life. Demas is a good example of one who lost great rewards because he considered the sacrifice to serve Christ too severe.
Do not allow difficulties in sanctification to cast doubt on salvation. Sanctification clearly demonstrates why we cannot save or keep ourselves saved. What Christ accomplishes is eternal and what we endeavor to accomplish (serve Him) is far less certain. John gives us hope in that when we fail Jesus is faithful and forgives us our failure.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
