-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
F
I have heard a little bit about this group, I believe they are called "the Millienium Dawn Bible Study Group," they split from the JW, shortly after Russell's death, as the JW, made, Judge Rutherford their new president and he did make some changes to what Russell's taught, so MDBSG remain loyal to the original teachings of Russell, while the JW follow the changes that Judge Rutherford and the following Presidents after the Judge, made after Russell's death.
We are told by their fruit ye shall know them (Matthew 7:15-23). Both the Russellites, and Jehovah Witnesses have not produce the Genuine fruit of the Spirit.
As you in reality come against the words of Christ, it has to follow that whoever you come against does not count for much
As you cannot accept the most fundamental requirement of the Christian faith, but feel you have the spiritual authority to add to it, thereby setting aside Jesus condition of how a person must see him to have eternal life, and introducing your own conditions, adding to what Jesus clearly and continuously stated.
Thefrefore to reiterate once again, as you have in the last few hours
The Holy Spirit would NEVER contradict the plain and continuous words of Christ as to the neccessary requirement of belief in him for a person to have eternal life, such a thing is impossible. Therefore anyone who will not accept the plain and continuous words of Christ is not being led of the Holy Spirit but themselves, and Christ was clear as to what that meant
HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN DOES SO TO GAIN HONOUR FOR HIMSELF, BUT HE WHO SEEKS THE HONOUR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A TRUE PERSON AND THERE IS NOTHNIG FALSE ABOUT HIM
John 7:18&19
It is the heart that matters to God, and any true Christian knows in their heart that the above in bold is the truth. And the results of people speaking for themselves and seeking in their hearts honour for themselves have been made abundantly apparent-this is especially true in the last few hours
As you cannot accept the most fundamental requirement of the Christian faith, but feel you have the spiritual authority to add to it, thereby setting aside Jesus condition of how a person must see him to have eternal life, and introducing your own conditions, adding to what Jesus clearly and continuously stated.
Thefrefore to reiterate once again, as you have in the last few hours
The Holy Spirit would NEVER contradict the plain and continuous words of Christ as to the neccessary requirement of belief in him for a person to have eternal life, such a thing is impossible. Therefore anyone who will not accept the plain and continuous words of Christ is not being led of the Holy Spirit but themselves, and Christ was clear as to what that meant
HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN DOES SO TO GAIN HONOUR FOR HIMSELF, BUT HE WHO SEEKS THE HONOUR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A TRUE PERSON AND THERE IS NOTHNIG FALSE ABOUT HIM
John 7:18&19
It is the heart that matters to God, and any true Christian knows in their heart that the above in bold is the truth. And the results of people speaking for themselves and seeking in their hearts honour for themselves have been made abundantly apparent-this is especially true in the last few hours
Last edited:
R
Many may be surprised to know that Charles Taze Russell did believe in the deity of Christ and that Jesus is divine.
Charles Taze Russell and Deity of Christ
Russell and the Deity of Christ
Searches of Russell's Works
Trinity (Searches)
See also:
Did Arius Deny the Deity of Christ?
Trinity in the Bible?: Arius
As far as I know most Bible Students also do believe in the deity of Christ, and that Jesus is divine. They do not, however, interpret his being deity/divine to mean that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Charles Taze Russell and Deity of Christ
Russell and the Deity of Christ
Searches of Russell's Works
Trinity (Searches)
See also:
Did Arius Deny the Deity of Christ?
Trinity in the Bible?: Arius
As far as I know most Bible Students also do believe in the deity of Christ, and that Jesus is divine. They do not, however, interpret his being deity/divine to mean that Jesus is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
yes of course.
so they are polythesists on some level. it doesn't matter, since the entire purpose is the denial that Jesus Christ is Emannuel.
they have to be polytheists because every one of those cults says man is becoming god. russell was a highranking mason, he had an agenda, and mission accomplished unfortunately for those who listen to him. the Word of Faith movement and Hinn and Co. are the SAME GROUP.
HINT:
Babylonian Talmudism (The Pharisees) teaches the same thing >> the jews received a divine spark and as a whole the jewish people ARE the messiah (secular jews, jews who hold to moses and prophets do not believe this, nor are even aware of it)...THEY CAN NOT HAVE JESUS CHRIST BEING THE GOD OF ABRAHAM ISAAC AND JACOB can they?
so they are polythesists on some level. it doesn't matter, since the entire purpose is the denial that Jesus Christ is Emannuel.
they have to be polytheists because every one of those cults says man is becoming god. russell was a highranking mason, he had an agenda, and mission accomplished unfortunately for those who listen to him. the Word of Faith movement and Hinn and Co. are the SAME GROUP.
HINT:
Babylonian Talmudism (The Pharisees) teaches the same thing >> the jews received a divine spark and as a whole the jewish people ARE the messiah (secular jews, jews who hold to moses and prophets do not believe this, nor are even aware of it)...THEY CAN NOT HAVE JESUS CHRIST BEING THE GOD OF ABRAHAM ISAAC AND JACOB can they?
R
Charles Taze Russell was never associated with the Jehovah's Witnesses organization. Russell did not believe in such an organization, and he preached against such authoritarianism.
Furthermore, Russell did not believe in the kind of message that is preached by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Russell's main message, the ransom for all, is almost the very opposite of that which the Jehovah's Witnesses preach.
I believe it is therefore incorrect to think of Charles Taze Russell as the founder of that which he did not believe in, and that which he preached against.
Russell founded no religion, no denomination, etc. He was a non-sectarian who did not believe in sectarianism or denominationalism. The only religion he believed in was that of Jesus and the apostles.
The real founder of the Jehovah's Witnesses organization was Joseph Rutherford.
See:
Russell Was Not the Founder of Jehovah's Witnesses
R
quote=MaggieMye;456748]Russell is a false prophet.
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/513182/Charles-Taze-Russell
[/quote]
Charles Taze Russell never claimed to be a prophet.
Charles Taze Russell plainly stated that he was not a prophet.
Charles Taze Russell plainly stated that his writings were studies in the scriptures and should not be considered as prophecy.
Charles Taze Russell plainly stated that his writings were not infallible, and he admitted the possibility of human error in his conclusions.
See:
Did Russell Claim to be a Prophet?
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/513182/Charles-Taze-Russell
[/quote]
Charles Taze Russell never claimed to be a prophet.
Charles Taze Russell plainly stated that he was not a prophet.
Charles Taze Russell plainly stated that his writings were studies in the scriptures and should not be considered as prophecy.
Charles Taze Russell plainly stated that his writings were not infallible, and he admitted the possibility of human error in his conclusions.
See:
Did Russell Claim to be a Prophet?
R
Russell Not a Mason
Charles Taze Russell was most definitely not a Mason. All the video presents as proof is what has to imagined and assumed, and then what is imagined and assumed has to be imagined and assumed to be fact.
We have overwhelming proof that Russell was not a member of, or in support of the goals of, the Masons' organization, in the tens of the thousands of pages that have been produced from Russell's works.
See also:http://ctr.reslight.net/?feed=rss2&cat=3
If the above link does not display correctly in your browser, use the link below:
Freemasons
Charles Taze Russell was most definitely not a Mason. All the video presents as proof is what has to imagined and assumed, and then what is imagined and assumed has to be imagined and assumed to be fact.
We have overwhelming proof that Russell was not a member of, or in support of the goals of, the Masons' organization, in the tens of the thousands of pages that have been produced from Russell's works.
See also:http://ctr.reslight.net/?feed=rss2&cat=3
If the above link does not display correctly in your browser, use the link below:
Freemasons
R
Bible Students Refused to Join Rutherford's New Organization
More correctly, the Bible Students movement (as a whole, represented by the majority), rejected Rutherford's new organization and his new gospel. The JWs to this day put forth the perception that the JW organization existed in Russell's day, and that Rutherford simply continued such an organization, while those they consider "opposers" are said to have "left" the organization. In reality, within a few months, Rutherford, in effect, had destroyed the legal entity that Russell had left, and had replaced it with a new entity that simply bore the same name.
What happened is that (over the next decade after Russell died) the majority of the Bbile Students refused to accept Rutherford's new "organization" dogma, as well as his new gospel. From the perspective of most of these Bible Students, they were not "leaving" that new organization, they simply refused to join that new organization. Most them would say that they simply remained "Bible Students".
In Russell's day, each congregation was an individual and independent group of Bible Students; there was no central authority that claimed rulership over the congregations. Many tried to make Russell into such, but he refused to take on such a role, even over those congregations that ordained him as "pastor" (shepherd). He viewed himself as under-shepherd, always pointing to the Most High shepherd -- Jehovah (Psalm 23:1) -- and the one whom Jehovah appointed over his sheep as shepherd (Ezekiel 34:23; John 10:29) -- and the apostles to whom all truth was made known through the holy spirit (John 14:26; 16:4-13; Galatians 1:12; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Timothy 2:2; Jude 1:3) -- as the only true authority in the church.
Russell stated:
By 1930, the majority of the Bible Students movement was carrying on their affairs without Rutherford. Rutherford, in 1931, named his new organization "Jehovah's Witnesses" in order that his new organization would be distinguished from the general Bible Students movement.
More correctly, the Bible Students movement (as a whole, represented by the majority), rejected Rutherford's new organization and his new gospel. The JWs to this day put forth the perception that the JW organization existed in Russell's day, and that Rutherford simply continued such an organization, while those they consider "opposers" are said to have "left" the organization. In reality, within a few months, Rutherford, in effect, had destroyed the legal entity that Russell had left, and had replaced it with a new entity that simply bore the same name.
What happened is that (over the next decade after Russell died) the majority of the Bbile Students refused to accept Rutherford's new "organization" dogma, as well as his new gospel. From the perspective of most of these Bible Students, they were not "leaving" that new organization, they simply refused to join that new organization. Most them would say that they simply remained "Bible Students".
In Russell's day, each congregation was an individual and independent group of Bible Students; there was no central authority that claimed rulership over the congregations. Many tried to make Russell into such, but he refused to take on such a role, even over those congregations that ordained him as "pastor" (shepherd). He viewed himself as under-shepherd, always pointing to the Most High shepherd -- Jehovah (Psalm 23:1) -- and the one whom Jehovah appointed over his sheep as shepherd (Ezekiel 34:23; John 10:29) -- and the apostles to whom all truth was made known through the holy spirit (John 14:26; 16:4-13; Galatians 1:12; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Timothy 2:2; Jude 1:3) -- as the only true authority in the church.
Russell stated:
By 1930, the majority of the Bible Students movement was carrying on their affairs without Rutherford. Rutherford, in 1931, named his new organization "Jehovah's Witnesses" in order that his new organization would be distinguished from the general Bible Students movement.
R
Fruit of the Spirit
Jesus was not speaking of any group, organization or movement as whole when he said by their fruits you shall know them. He was speaking of any Christian as an individual, whether he might associated with any denomination, any sect, any movement. It is the individual Christian that must produce the fruit of the spirit; the individual cannot leave that to being dependent on association with a sectarian denomination, organization, etc. Indeed, such a sectarian spirit hinders the development of the fruit of the spirit.
Also, each individual Christian is at various levels of developing the fruit of the spirit, and every Christian is also hindered by the remains of body -- the sinful flesh -- in which the holy spirit resides; one does not convert and all of sudden display all the fruit of the holy spirit within the flesh. Having, however, been begotten (or, born again) as new creatures, the new creation itself, apart from the flesh is totally without sin. It is the new creation that needs to develop the fruit of the spirit, which, in turn, brings the sinful flesh into subjection.
All of this, however, has little to do with being members of either of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Bible Students movement, Baptists, Methodists, Catholic, etc. Indeed, to whatever extent the Christian has any kind of sectarian spirit, even if that sectarian spirit be associated with the Bible Students, to that extent he is being carnal in his thinking, and even though he made be a "born again" Christian, God's holy spirit is hindered; such may remain as a child even though he may still be a new creature in Christ; the apostle Paul says that such thoughts are carnal, and every Christian that gets carried away with such sectarianism will need to be disciplined (as a son) for such.
See what I have written on sectarianism:
Sectarianism Bible Students Info Site
Russell on Sectarianism:
Sectarianism
Jesus was not speaking of any group, organization or movement as whole when he said by their fruits you shall know them. He was speaking of any Christian as an individual, whether he might associated with any denomination, any sect, any movement. It is the individual Christian that must produce the fruit of the spirit; the individual cannot leave that to being dependent on association with a sectarian denomination, organization, etc. Indeed, such a sectarian spirit hinders the development of the fruit of the spirit.
Also, each individual Christian is at various levels of developing the fruit of the spirit, and every Christian is also hindered by the remains of body -- the sinful flesh -- in which the holy spirit resides; one does not convert and all of sudden display all the fruit of the holy spirit within the flesh. Having, however, been begotten (or, born again) as new creatures, the new creation itself, apart from the flesh is totally without sin. It is the new creation that needs to develop the fruit of the spirit, which, in turn, brings the sinful flesh into subjection.
All of this, however, has little to do with being members of either of Jehovah's Witnesses, the Bible Students movement, Baptists, Methodists, Catholic, etc. Indeed, to whatever extent the Christian has any kind of sectarian spirit, even if that sectarian spirit be associated with the Bible Students, to that extent he is being carnal in his thinking, and even though he made be a "born again" Christian, God's holy spirit is hindered; such may remain as a child even though he may still be a new creature in Christ; the apostle Paul says that such thoughts are carnal, and every Christian that gets carried away with such sectarianism will need to be disciplined (as a son) for such.
See what I have written on sectarianism:
Sectarianism Bible Students Info Site
Russell on Sectarianism:
Sectarianism