created in 6 days question

eyesonly · May 2, 2015

Can someone answer, why the pope himself is announcing that genesis is not accurate and that everything wasn't created in 6 days as per genesis with his quote about something to the effect of are we to believe that god was a magician and waved his magic wand around.

i'm certainly not catholic, but i truly find this shocking.

thank you

God bless

wincam · May 4, 2015

eyesonly said:

why shocking - Popes have said many strange things - the previous one it seems said he believed in evolution since "it is obvious coal and oil took millions of years to produce" - he had to be reminded that they can both be produced over night in the laboratory and in a few days under field conditions - wincam

Chrysolite · May 4, 2015

eyesonly said:

We determine the 24hr/day by the the sun's rising and setting. We determine the length of the month by the moon's waning and waxing periods.

The sun was already created on the 1st day as indicated by these words:

And there was evening and there was morning, the first day.

You can't determine the evening and the morning without the sun. Evening is sun-set and morning is sun-rise. Sunset is the beginning of nighttime and nighttime is 12 hours. Sunrise is the beginning of daytime and daytime is 12 hours. So, it's a 24 hr day.

However, the sun at this stage is a proto-sun or an early sun. It is not yet a full sun as we see it today. It's faint and the heat is not enough to warm the earth as it is today according to this article:

“How Early Earth Kept Warm Despite Faint Sun

Collisions among molecules in early Earth’s atmosphere may have prevented our planet from freezing over eons ago, when the sun was much dimmer than it is today, keeping the world warm enough for life to emerge, scientists say.

This new found warming effect may influence what distant worlds scientists think alien life might possibly dwell on, investigators added.

When the sun was young, models suggest it was only 70 percent as bright as it is today. However, during the first 2 billion years of Earth's history, geological evidence suggests the Earth was still warm enough that glaciers did not cover its entire surface, allowing early life to emerge.”

Early Earth Kept Warm Despite Faint Sun

---

The sun was fully developed only on the 4th day because it says:

And let them be for signs and for seasons

With a faint early sun with not enough heat to warm the Earth, you can't have seasons, only a cold dark bitter winter.

pseudomonkey · May 4, 2015

Hey eyes,

I think I may be able to answer your question. If you know Hebrew, or can get yourself an Interlinear of the Old Testament, you will see that the verb for create for sun/moon is asha and not bara (which is used in verse 1). Bara indicates creation "out of nothing," whereas asha can mean to form something that has already existed. I think in the "creation" of sun/moon what we have is the sun/moon first being visible on the earth. In other words, if anyone had been on the earth on the fourth day, sun and moon would have been clearly visible. I like to read Dr. Hugh Ross' books, especially "The Genesis Question." Ross is an old-earth creationist, but if you have an open mind to an alternative to a strict 24 hour day interpretation, I think he can answer many questions you may have.

Chrysolite · May 4, 2015

With regards to time, it is relative. Different parts of the Universe have different time. Your time on top of the mountain is different from your time on the ground. Your time on a speeding rocket ship is different from your time standing still. 1 hour on the rocket ship traveling near the speed of light, 100 years would have already elapsed on Earth. 1 hour standing near a black hole, 100 years would have already elapsed on Earth.

This is General Relativity which was conceptualized by Einstein.

2 Peter 3:8 But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

Psalm 90:4 A thousand years in your sight are like a day that has just gone by, or like a watch in the night.

God designed time to be this way. It agrees with Science.

Therefore, the timescale of the creation should not be understood as happening all in 6 days, relative to our time. We should see time relative to God and in God's perspective, the creation took 6 days, relative to HIS time NOT our time. These 6 days could equate to billions of years relative to our time.

The mere fact that light will take thousands if not millions of years to travel to the Earth from the stars, indicates that one day in the creation story is not equivalent to our timescale. The Sun and all the stars takes about a hundred million years to form.

If you want to see the creation from start to finish in 6 days, you would have to find a black hole and stand close to it to be able to see the creation in God's perspective and speed.

One Christian would argue creation took only 6 days and one Christian would argue it takes billions of years. Both are quite correct. It really all boils down to relativity.

Tintin · May 4, 2015

pseudomonkey said:

Hey eyes,

I think I may be able to answer your question. If you know Hebrew, or can get yourself an Interlinear of the Old Testament, you will see that the verb for create for sun/moon is asha and not bara (which is used in verse 1). Bara indicates creation "out of nothing," whereas asha can mean to form something that has already existed. I think in the "creation" of sun/moon what we have is the sun/moon first being visible on the earth. In other words, if anyone had been on the earth on the fourth day, sun and moon would have been clearly visible. I like to read Dr. Hugh Ross' books, especially "The Genesis Question." Ross is an old-earth creationist, but if you have an open mind to an alternative to a strict 24 hour day interpretation, I think he can answer many questions you may have.

Ugh. Dr. Hugh Ross is terribly inconsistent. He doesn't know what he believes.

slave · May 5, 2015

Most of us can remember the 1,000 years to God is a day to us, and vice versa concept so, it seems to reason... to wonder if what scripture says really is a 24 hr day vs. maybe a thousand years. We think of the vastness of God's creation in that time frame and say, "wow, even I would need at least a month to pull that off on the best of days"...smile.

But we need to look at scripture closely to see God's perspective. First, does scripture say God's time on His watch doesn't sync with ours? No, as we read some verses, note and underline in your bible the word "Like"... the question here is what is scripture telling us? Is it possible it isn't just the God time frame vs. Mans version? Let's look at two of the scriptures we speak of, then I will lay out many more for you to look up and study with the H.S.-- Let yourself draw close to God and let Him prove to you it was exactly what scripture says...a 24 Hr. day,.

2 Peter 3:8......: "With the Lord a day is LIKE a thousand years, and a thousand years is LIKE a day."

Psalms 90:4.....: " "A thousand years in your sight are LIKE a day that has just gone by, or LIKE a watch in the night."

This is describing His Majesty and Omnipresence and Omniscience attributes that are uniquely set upon Himself Even, over Satan I might add.
Now Satan has many prongs of diversion in the Science world, to divert us from the 24 hr consideration... and many still think that even entire geological periods past, not just a day 24 hr version. So there is only one correct answer; what is it...drum roll please...smile, it's like Christmas and you are anticipating the unopened gift...what is it, what is it!!!!..

.Here are some Scriptures to look at, do the home work on it and then come back we can go over each point to illustrate God's proof of a 24 hour day, as we dig deeper seeking the truths of God , wow, that sounded biblical...smile. Her's the verses:

Let me say this, tho, before I give those, Why is it Important to know this? Because we need to understand that the bible is the Holy Word of God. It's perfect and true throughout it's entire content. This is important because it tells us about God's special promise to each of us and how we can spend eternity with God in Heaven. Ok, now the verses:

Proverbs 30:5
Genesis 1: 5, 8, 13, 19, 23, 31, / Gen. 1:11; 1:16 / and then just read Gen. 1: 1-31.
Exodus 20: 11.
Exodus 31: 17.
John 11: 9.
Genesis 2: 2-3.
Romans 5: 12-13.
! Corinthians 15: 21.
Luke 3:23.

Use already read verses to chronologically organize in your thoughts the logical progressions, and ask the H.S. to help you, come back and we can isolate those steps if you need. OK?

"Father Help us to cement a piece of truth that will give us more confidence in our belief in your Word and put doubt in it's place,... clear the picture up for eyesonly and for anyone not sure of the absolutes of your Word....in Christ Jesus I pray...Amen!"

weakness · May 5, 2015

SarahM777 said:

Your confusing a literal time frame which the parameters are defined with a METAPHOR which is NOT literal.

Metaphor - Merriam Webster

noun met·a·phor \ˈme-tə-ˌfȯr also -fər\
: a word or phrase for one thing that is used to refer to another thing in order to show or suggest that they are similar
: an object, activity, or idea that is used as a symbol of something else

Yes, irregardless" is a word.
No, that doesn't mean you should use it. »

Full Definition of METAPHOR

1
: a figure of speech in which a word or phrase literally denoting one kind of object or idea is used in place of another to suggest a likeness or analogy between them (as in drowning in money); broadly : figurative language — compare simile

2
: an object, activity, or idea treated as a metaphor :

The context of the passage you are using shows that it is a metaphor and NOT tobetaken LITERALLY.

2 Peter 3

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. [SUP]4 [/SUP]They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.” [SUP]5 [/SUP]But they deliberately forget that long ago by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water. [SUP]6 [/SUP]By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. [SUP]7 [/SUP]By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. [SUP]9 [/SUP]The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
[/QUOTE} But what is the meaning of the metaphor. Isn't it that time has really no bearing on God's abilities and domain?

Tintin · May 5, 2015

Yes, because He's the Creator. Time is created. As the Creator, God's outside time. But that doesn't mean when He mentions day in Genesis 1, that it doesn't mean a 'day' as we know it. The Bible was written to people. Therefore it was written for us. A day is a day is a day.

slave · May 5, 2015

Show me scripture that proves the earth is anything more than 6,000 years old and I will listen to the billions of years argument closer...God is God... He is not limited to the men of sciences understandings, many of the things of science are misrepresented in fact in my opinion. Why would I believe man, with the Spirit of Satan providing an agenda to throw us off thru this means, over the Words of God? .. Are we to use Science to limit God's ability? Or do we say God's Word is inconsistent so we need to look at the purity of science over Him? This is why it so important to understand the absolutes of the Words He speaks here.

By faith, I start with God and let Science fit the truth found within the limits of our understanding. For there is science in God but there is not God necessarily in Science, hence be careful of the use of Science, it has two voices To describe God, one of those Spirits doesn't mind lying to you to get his agenda met.... but when God describes science, it is always right, and always in the light.. "What do we have faith in, is my question!?" This is more than the 24 hr question, as well.

Jason0047 · May 5, 2015

An evening and a morning is a 24 hour day. It's what Genesis 1 says. There is no need to complicate it. God is a miracle worker. He does amazing things. People need to accept that fact (Which goes beyond Science so falsely called). Plus, the world teaches that the world is billions of years old. However, as a result of the global flood: seashells on the tops of the highest mountains have been found. If the Earth was billions of years old (and was once covered by all water as the atheists claim), then the weathering of the elements over billions of years would have eroded the sea shells on the tops of the mountains. But, if the Earth is only thousands of years old, this is not a problem.

Jason0047 · May 5, 2015

Plus the Day Age Theory is flawed. How can you have the sixth day as being 1,000 years? Surely 1,000 years did not pass whereby God then declared everything was good at the end of the 1,000 years. That doesn't make sense. For sin and death had taken place long before Adam had grown old. As for the Gap Theory. That is like adding to the Bible. I mean, I can add all kinds of crazy and wild ideas inbetween other verses. But it wouldn't make it true, though.

slave · May 5, 2015

We must understand the premise of creation as well. God uses many forms of creation, some He starts and allows a progression of time to develop, yet as we see while Jesus was on earth there is the "Logos" version of creation as well, the created by the spoken word...version. This eliminates Sciences rule over God in any way. God uses the Spoken word here or "Logos" base. In creationism.

weakness · May 5, 2015

What does formless really mean? With out form. A blob,no that would be a blob form. A sprawled all over, no that would be a sprawled all over form. Formless, that would be formless, no form at all, without form. as in nothing. Void ,what is void,? A sucking hole? no that would be a hole. I think void means not anything, void ,empty,not there The earth was without form and void, so where was it? IN Gods mind!!! In the beginning was the logos, a word uttered. Jesus was that word,and the word was made flesh, all thing were created BY HIM (,the utterance), and for him and without him was not any thing made that was made. the word was with God from the eternal and uttered into existence. The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, I was set up from everlasting before ever the earth was made. While as yet he had not made the earth. When he prepare the heavens I was there. Prepared not made, you prepare before you do something. Does not wisdom cry and put forth her voice? Unto you oh men I call, and my voice( to cry out ,to utter) is to the sons of men. Jesus spoke the world into being so we would have light, understanding of God The creation declares the Glory of God. And is the means by which God uses to bring us to himself, the creation. For the creation was not subject to vanity willingly , but by reason of him who subjected the same in hope, because the creature itself shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God!!!!! Praise the lord who works all thing after the counsil of his own will

birdie · May 5, 2015

I'm not so sure of that. The Bible says that in Christ there is neither male nor female, and one of the words for God "El Shaddai" apparently means 'brawny breast' to indicate God provides. Further, the gospel is called 'milk' which comes from a breast. Isaiah tells us that the spirit of wisdom rests on Christ and though wisdom is a 'she' in Proverbs I don't think associating wisdom with God's spirit is a stretch.

birdie · May 5, 2015

It is good that you are placing your trust in the Bible as your first source since who wouldn't want to trust what God says first above anything else. However, if you really trust the Bible, then go with what the Bible says about it being written in parable form. The Bible is God's law book, the law of God. Psalm 78:1-2 says that the law is a parable: "...Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.I will open my mouth in a parable..." Also, Mark 4:34 says: "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." The word of God is given to us in parable form and Genesis is the same. When Jesus explained how to interpret parables in Mark 4, he showed us that surface stories are not really the real meaning, but surface stories have interpreted meanings quite distinct from the surface text. For example, 'thorns' in the Bible are not really thorns from someone's backyard. 'Thorns' is a parable word meaning "such as hear the word,And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful". Good ground is not likewise soil from a backyard garden. Rather 'good ground' is a parable word meaning " such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred." It is the same thing with Genesis. You cannot read the surface text and have the real interpreted meaning. I could say Genesis says that God made the world in six days but what is the interpreted parable meaning of the surface text? That would be the real meaning. If you rely on surface interpretation of the Bible for your information, then be prepared to chop off your hand if it offends you, and pick up physical serpents, and drink physical poison, and have a physical mark emblazed in your forehead, and to see Christ with a metal sword sticking out of his mouth and so forth. Parables must be interpreted to get at the true meaning. God is constantly interpreting Genesis surface words in other places in the Bible, and in Genesis itself. Light, of course is Christ. Darkness is the absence of Christ. For example, the Bible says heaven is God's throne, not the upper stratosphere, and Jesus is found on the throne, and the throne seems to be in people's hearts, since the Daystar is Jesus is said to arise in people's hearts. John 9:4-5 says that as long as Jesus is in the world it is called Day and light. How long is Jesus in the world? Just 24 hours? Not likely. Is he still in the world as long as he has believers in the world. I think so. What is the darkness that is upon the face of the deep in Genesis 1? 'Deep' is a parable word meaning 'judgment'. Psalm 36:6 says: " ...thy judgments are a great deep..." Is God's judgment the physical ocean or something else? God's judgment is not really the physical ocean, so when the spirit of God moved on the face of the deep, I think it is not talking about the ocean. Genesis says God called the dry land earth. Is earth really planet earth if it is just the dry land? And isn't the dry land a parable phrase for people in need of the water of the gospel?

Tintin · May 5, 2015

birdie said:

It is good that you are placing your trust in the Bible as your first source since who wouldn't want to trust what God says first above anything else. However, if you really trust the Bible, then go with what the Bible says about it being written in parable form. The Bible is God's law book, the law of God. Psalm 78:1-2 says that the law is a parable: "...Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth.I will open my mouth in a parable..." Also, Mark 4:34 says: "But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples." The word of God is given to us in parable form and Genesis is the same. When Jesus explained how to interpret parables in Mark 4, he showed us that surface stories are not really the real meaning, but surface stories have interpreted meanings quite distinct from the surface text. For example, 'thorns' in the Bible are not really thorns from someone's backyard. 'Thorns' is a parable word meaning "such as hear the word,And the cares of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the lusts of other things entering in, choke the word, and it becometh unfruitful". Good ground is not likewise soil from a backyard garden. Rather 'good ground' is a parable word meaning " such as hear the word, and receive it, and bring forth fruit, some thirtyfold, some sixty, and some an hundred." It is the same thing with Genesis. You cannot read the surface text and have the real interpreted meaning. I could say Genesis says that God made the world in six days but what is the interpreted parable meaning of the surface text? That would be the real meaning. If you rely on surface interpretation of the Bible for your information, then be prepared to chop off your hand if it offends you, and pick up physical serpents, and drink physical poison, and have a physical mark emblazed in your forehead, and to see Christ with a metal sword sticking out of his mouth and so forth. Parables must be interpreted to get at the true meaning. God is constantly interpreting Genesis surface words in other places in the Bible, and in Genesis itself. Light, of course is Christ. Darkness is the absence of Christ. For example, the Bible says heaven is God's throne, not the upper stratosphere, and Jesus is found on the throne, and the throne seems to be in people's hearts, since the Daystar is Jesus is said to arise in people's hearts. John 9:4-5 says that as long as Jesus is in the world it is called Day and light. How long is Jesus in the world? Just 24 hours? Not likely. Is he still in the world as long as he has believers in the world. I think so. What is the darkness that is upon the face of the deep in Genesis 1? 'Deep' is a parable word meaning 'judgment'. Psalm 36:6 says: " ...thy judgments are a great deep..." Is God's judgment the physical ocean or something else? God's judgment is not really the physical ocean, so when the spirit of God moved on the face of the deep, I think it is not talking about the ocean. Genesis says God called the dry land earth. Is earth really planet earth if it is just the dry land? And isn't the dry land a parable phrase for people in need of the water of the gospel?

Wrong. Of course the early chapters of Genesis have spiritual value and meanings, but they're historical narratives and genealogies. Not parables. Parables are very different. They're earthly stories with heavenly meanings. Genesis etc. is history with heavenly meanings (but you're over-spiritualising the meanings to the point where they become airy-fairy). Please learn about genres and contexts before you assume/believe the Bible is parable. It contains some parables, yes. But anyone can see the parables differ significantly to the historical narratives. Yes, even those historical narratives found in Genesis (most of the book).

JackH · May 5, 2015

slave said:

Show me scripture that proves the earth is around 6,000 years old.

And I might dismiss the overwhelming scientific evidence from credible sources that indicates the earth is billions of years old.

pseudomonkey · May 5, 2015

Ross is inconsistent...really???!! Book and page number please.

weakness · May 5, 2015

Tintin said:

Wrong. Of course the early chapters of Genesis have spiritual value and meanings, but they're historical narratives and genealogies. Not parables. Parables are very different. They're earthly stories with heavenly meanings. Genesis etc. is history with heavenly meanings (but you're over-spiritualising the meanings to the point where they become airy-fairy). Please learn about genres and contexts before you assume/believe the Bible is parable. It contains some parables, yes. But anyone can see the parables differ significantly to the historical narratives. Yes, even those historical narratives found in Genesis (most of the book).[/QUOTE? You know ,I understand what you are saying ,and appreciate it. The first word turned me off. "WRONG" like some vulture, waiting for a mistake. I think there are more than just parables in the bible, But I also thought there was some Good things said in the post Ps.78 actually sounds like Jesus or a prophesy about himself , without reading it. And what if Genesis is not historical?But in fact,conveying truth in another way. No one can really be sure ,except dogmatically or if that is what they have been taught and refuse to even, God forbid, consider something else. Why did Jesus speak in parables a lot? As a style? I think to keep thing closed from the dogs and swine amongst others. Why did he tell the demons and others not to say who he was at times ? Even the tabernacle was a shadow of the true. So it is historical and a shadow of the true. I think it is true of the feasts also. maybe the law. Jesus said they spoke of him. They sure were not made to follow for righteousness or not what they appeared to be to the Jews. There is always this Fear of over=spiritualizing by some. I honestly do get your point.Your airy fairy /Learn more before you assume Just doesn't sound like anything Jesus would say to someone. And apparently not every one can see the difference between parables and history. But God will teach people ,but patiently at times and other pulling them out of the fire. Moses pointed to Jesus, The lifting up of the serpent and on and on, Pharaoh really wears a dark coat. The place names all have meanings besides just there location as a map,Peoples names the same.A lot of things have that first and,I don't know, first meaning, but deeper they offer much more, Maybe not for everyone??? But they are there, sometimes layers of wisdom. I'm not picking on you and I hope you don't think that. In my opinion to many people ,not necessarily you, think the more they claim to know the closer to God and better than others they are. An insecurity sickness I think ,or something.It is Good to instruct someone in the lord.The bible says in meekness oppose those who are off the path, considering yourself. Gentleness,tender hearted, patient,etc, all fruits of the Spirit in us. A lot of what was said was worth hearing. And what you said was worth hearing, maybe just a little more humility or something. You can tell me my errors if you want, I can't really see my back and need some one else to tell me. I know a little fly in the ointment can spoil the whole thing. I do think members of Christ have different gifts and some thing might stand out to one more than another sometimes.God bless your contribution and continuing service to our Lord.

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