Disproving Limited Atonement in Three Passages
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S
How do you figure that? The Bible makes it very clear that while Christ died for our sins, we have to accept Him as our savior.
Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The beautiful (and often used) John 3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
Romans 8
1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
The beautiful (and often used) John 3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
I don't think any argument for God saying atonement is limited can stand up. People are bringing up ways of separating people, like those predestined for salvation, Israel, or Jews. The question is if it is limited or available for all.
We know that all do not take advantage of the atonement offered, but when God gave His Son it was for the humans that God created. We have separated ourselves into different groups, but I don't think God does at all, except for separating Jews to learn of Him, and giving them a special blessings because of that. But that is the only way God separates them, God sees them as people He created and says when we accept Him we are grafted in.
Taking advantage of what God offers is an entirely different thing.
We know that all do not take advantage of the atonement offered, but when God gave His Son it was for the humans that God created. We have separated ourselves into different groups, but I don't think God does at all, except for separating Jews to learn of Him, and giving them a special blessings because of that. But that is the only way God separates them, God sees them as people He created and says when we accept Him we are grafted in.
Taking advantage of what God offers is an entirely different thing.
H
To Red tent and others, Please stop editing God's WORD! The Bible is clear, God separates people, into two groups,the "elect" an the "non elect". The clear teaching of God is : Jesus' death was for the "many" and for the "all". It is not "either/or" BUT "both/and". AND, how God has played this out is plain to see. If we are "approved" of God we have figured out how each sides are both true. The truth is: Jesus really only saves His "elect", the "many"; YET, Jesus would save "all" who "call upon" Him. But, the truth is: no one will "call" upon Jesus without the Power and love of GOD "drawing" (forcing) them. LIKE it or NOT, that is the BIBLE truth. Love to all. (My love can not save anyone, I don't have the Power to save; God has the power to save all, but He has limited His power to His "elect".) Hoffco
Are you saying that we have no choice to accept Christ? We are either elected by God or not, what we decide has no part in it at all?
My understanding of predestination is that God, being eternal knows who will choose and who won't, but the truth that we also have free will also applies, so we can change this with our will.
Also, I don't at all appreciate your judgment that because I understand differently than you do I am changing the words of my Lord. It is unjust judgment.
My understanding of predestination is that God, being eternal knows who will choose and who won't, but the truth that we also have free will also applies, so we can change this with our will.
Also, I don't at all appreciate your judgment that because I understand differently than you do I am changing the words of my Lord. It is unjust judgment.
H
To crossnote, NO DEAL I don't need to "concede" to "unlimited Atonement", I believe it already. And, if you will "concede" to "chosen in Him"... based on foreseen knowledge- that would make God the slave to the free will of man. I will not
concede to the heresy of "the free will" of man.b Love to all, Hoffco
concede to the heresy of "the free will" of man.b Love to all, Hoffco
H
To Redtent. My words are very clear, But you "read between the lines" to make conclusions that are not mine. And then you seek to destroy a straw man. This is exactly how your destroy God's word. God's words are plain and clear, you read "between the lines", make a "straw god", and then proceed to destroy your false god. Please, learn to submit to GOD'S Word. Love to all who love GOD in TRUTH, Hoffco
Hofco, you have judged me as saying things that God does not say. Yet you are not being clear about your "absolutely correct" way of understanding God. Nor in clearing up for people ways that I have taken liberties with the word of God.
"I said, Man will not choose GOD, unless GOD "forces" man to choose GOD." If God forces man, where is free choice?
"I said, Man will not choose GOD, unless GOD "forces" man to choose GOD." If God forces man, where is free choice?
Well, the Bible doesn't say anything that supports your claim exclusively either. You have an opinion on some verses, that is eisegetical at best, and anyone can have an opposing view, in fact a couple of opposing views and be as apparently right as you think you appear to be.
Until you find a mutually exclusive conversation from Christ or a Disciple that says EVERYONE is saved, you have nothing but eisegetical, wishful, hopes.
If everyone is saved, why was the whole dang Bible put together. They are saved. They don't need to do anything, they are saved. They are ALL HIS AND SAVED by your way of seeing it. There is no Bible, and NO DIRECTION from the Bible NOR THE APOSTLES required. God would have uniformly accepted the world, as is, and that would be that.
As long as there are expectations expressed in the NT of one who is GOD'S, then there are decisions for a person to make to be atoned for.
If you were there already, the Bible would not give expectations like, Believe, Obey, Trust, Faith, etc... they would be unnecessary, yet, they are written as necessary. FOllowing is an example of this sort of theology.
[TABLE="width: 608"]
[TR]
[TD]Jhn 11:35
[/TD]
[TD]Jesus wept.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Eph 4:13
[/TD]
[TD]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of thefnknowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature fnwhich belongs to the fullness of Christ.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Crying makes you as spiritually perfect as Christ was. SEE THERE IS THE SCRIPTURE FOR IT! Now all I gotta do is get ADAMANT, STUBBORN, and SNOTTY and insist the world reads those verses as I do, and I've proven as much s you have.
Until you find a mutually exclusive conversation from Christ or a Disciple that says EVERYONE is saved, you have nothing but eisegetical, wishful, hopes.
If everyone is saved, why was the whole dang Bible put together. They are saved. They don't need to do anything, they are saved. They are ALL HIS AND SAVED by your way of seeing it. There is no Bible, and NO DIRECTION from the Bible NOR THE APOSTLES required. God would have uniformly accepted the world, as is, and that would be that.
As long as there are expectations expressed in the NT of one who is GOD'S, then there are decisions for a person to make to be atoned for.
If you were there already, the Bible would not give expectations like, Believe, Obey, Trust, Faith, etc... they would be unnecessary, yet, they are written as necessary. FOllowing is an example of this sort of theology.
[TABLE="width: 608"]
[TR]
[TD]Jhn 11:35
[/TD]
[TD]Jesus wept.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 614"]
[TR]
[TD]Eph 4:13
[/TD]
[TD]until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of thefnknowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature fnwhich belongs to the fullness of Christ.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Crying makes you as spiritually perfect as Christ was. SEE THERE IS THE SCRIPTURE FOR IT! Now all I gotta do is get ADAMANT, STUBBORN, and SNOTTY and insist the world reads those verses as I do, and I've proven as much s you have.
A
the answers is in this...tell me what it says.
[h=3]2 Thessalonians 2:10-12[/h]
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
[h=3]2 Thessalonians 2:10-12[/h]
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.