Disproving Limited Atonement in Three Passages

[TannarDarr]

Do you sin?

What I do or don't do has no bearing on what the BIBLE SAYS. That's a coward's way out. I HAVE NOT RAISED FROM A THREE DAY DEATH EITHER. If that is the standard, then why are we in this silly fantasy of a faith where people raise from the dead, HAVE YOU RAISED FROM THE DEAD????

When someone can't discuss the verse, they try to make it personal. just stop it.

 

[Mammachickadee]

Says who? Not the bible. You must be a Calvinist. For Calvinist it doesn't really matter what the bible says, it matter what Calvin SAYS it says.

Actually I'm a Christian who has Holy Spirit-given discernment not influenced by the humanistic views of ''man choosing God''. Ellie's correct.

 

[SpiritofFire]

What I do or don't do has no bearing on what the BIBLE SAYS. That's a coward's way out. I HAVE NOT RAISED FROM A THREE DAY DEATH EITHER. If that is the standard, then why are we in this silly fantasy of a faith where people raise from the dead, HAVE YOU RAISED FROM THE DEAD????

When someone can't discuss the verse, they try to make it personal. just stop it.

I asked a question based upon the verse and now I'm making it personal? I speak constantly about raising the dead, but the people still love death. We can end all evil. I believe this because Christ lives in me.

 

[Mammachickadee]

one who's mother was a Jew.

The Samaritans were NOT JEWS by HEBREW STANDARDS, nor anyone's for that matter.

You can posture all you want with your catty crap.

This is the last time I keep an effort with you.

By your definition Jesus would have been a Samaritan and not a Jew. I come from Jewish heritage and even I have an understanding that just because your mother is a jew doesn't mean YOU are a Jew. The line of Israel came through Jacob, not Rachel or Leah. Whether one is meaning Jew to be a religion or a bloodline one cannot credit it to the mother. Even the most juvenile of believers knows that the father is the spiritual head of the family as described in the New Testament. Were you correct in believing that the Jewish bloodline comes through the mother, that would also make the children of Rahab and Ruth Samaritans and not ''Jews'' regardless of their adoption into the Jewish faith.
Before God there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but fallible man that needs atonement for sin. One has to believe in either limited atonement or believe that God is a failure for the whole world not being saved.

 

[TannarDarr]

I asked a question based upon the verse and now I'm making it personal? I speak constantly about raising the dead, but the people still love death. We can end all evil. I believe this because Christ lives in me.

No, you asked a question about me. You changed the topic. IF I DO OR DO NOT sin, it does not affect what the verse says.

If that is the standard.....

Then have you raised from the dead? Do you know someone who has??? IF NOT then the CHRIST RESURRECTION must be wrong, right?

Now, go back to the original questions, and stop trying to divert the topic to me and my walk.

You have evaded......

Originally Posted by TannarDarr

No it's not. And there was no big word. HERE, I will use as many one syllable words as I can.

If you make it practicing sin... that lets you sin once in a while. When you go past the "AND" which is a word that puts two thoughts together in one thought, it says CAN NOT SIN.

It is a discussion about one verse. You don't have to know HOW HE DOES IT, only that HE DOES. So stop avoiding and deal.

 

[TannarDarr]

By your definition Jesus would have been a Samaritan and not a Jew.

You'll have to show me how, his mother was Jewish. Through His mother he got the right to declare his nationality Jewish. From His faith, he ALSO could declare Himself jewish.

From His father, he got the lineage to david. EVEN an adopted father, passed on the lineage.

I come from Jewish heritage and even I have an understanding that just because your mother is a jew doesn't mean YOU are a Jew.

Why do Jewish mothers wish for their Jewish sons to marry a Jewish girl? So they will have Jewish grandchildren.

The line of Israel came through Jacob, not Rachel or Leah. Whether one is meaning Jew to be a religion or a bloodline one cannot credit it to the mother. Even the most juvenile of believers knows that the father is the spiritual head of the family as described in the New Testament. Were you correct in believing that the Jewish bloodline comes through the mother, that would also make the children of Rahab and Ruth Samaritans and not ''Jews'' regardless of their adoption into the Jewish faith.

It's not MY THOUGHT, sister. I'm borrowing it from Jewish Rabbis.
Judaism 101: Who Is a Jew?

TBefore God there is neither Jew nor Gentile,

Before Melchizedek, who's priesthood Christ's is formed after there isn't either. He was PRE JEW/GENTILE. That is what Paul is referencing when he says it.

T but fallible man that needs atonement for sin. One has to believe in either limited atonement or believe that God is a failure for the whole world not being saved.

God never promised the whole world. But I'm sure he appreciates you trying to speak for him.

 

[SpiritofFire]

No, you asked a question about me. You changed the topic. IF I DO OR DO NOT sin, it does not affect what the verse says.

If that is the standard.....

Then have you raised from the dead? Do you know someone who has??? IF NOT then the CHRIST RESURRECTION must be wrong, right?

Now, go back to the original questions, and stop trying to divert the topic to me and my walk.

You have evaded......

[/I][/COLOR]

It is a discussion about one verse. You don't have to know HOW HE DOES IT, only that HE DOES. So stop avoiding and deal.

What verse do you struggle with? If you sin, then you practice it. Whoever commits sin is off the devil.

 

[Bookends]

Matthew 15:25, Jesus speaking of the Jews and those whom belong to the world: "...They hated Me without a cause".

Since those who hated Jesus had no reason, so then is it safe to say that those who do Love the Lord do so without a cause? Jesus did say in the previous verses 22 and 24 that if Jesus didn't come to speak to them, that they couldn't be held accountable. Thus Jesus did come and speak, the word, and now they have their sins exposed to them inasmuch the very same way or job the 10 commands did given my Moses.

For some reason this phrase has caught my attention "They hated Me without a cause", because I thought Satan was the cause, or sin was the cause, or our selfishness is the cause...Or is Christ just saying Jesus, being perfect, wasn't the cause of their hatred because He hadn't done any injustice against them? But that again would a cause.

 

[TannarDarr]

What verse do you struggle with? If you sin, then you practice it. Whoever commits sin is off the devil.

I don't struggle with any of them. You are cutting one in half and throwing out the part you can't fit into your "theology".

I've explained enough for you to understand, but you just ignored the post that did the explaining. You give me no reason to think repeating myself will have any fruit. SO YOU DO THE WORK, scroll back.

 

[Mammachickadee]

You'll have to show me how, his mother was Jewish. Through His mother he got the right to declare his nationality Jewish. From His faith, he ALSO could declare Himself jewish.

From His father, he got the lineage to david. EVEN an adopted father, passed on the lineage.




Why do Jewish mothers wish for their Jewish sons to marry a Jewish girl? So they will have Jewish grandchildren.



It's not MY THOUGHT, sister. I'm borrowing it from Jewish Rabbis.
Judaism 101: Who Is a Jew?


Before Melchizedek, who's priesthood Christ's is formed after there isn't either. He was PRE JEW/GENTILE. That is what Paul is referencing when he says it.



God never promised the whole world. But I'm sure he appreciates you trying to speak for him.

Apparently you need to look up the definition of limited atonement, then . Doesn't matter who the law recognized as Jesus's father... His father was not an earthly jew.

 

[TannarDarr]

Apparently you need to look up the definition of limited atonement, then . Doesn't matter who the law recognized as Jesus's father... His father was not an earthly jew.

Ummmm Ok, the virtual, "you can't play with toys I'm going home."

Apparently, what the JEWISH FAITH teaches their people is not nearly as RIGHT as your personal view.

Can't argue with that.

 

[Mammachickadee]

Are you saying that you don't agree with my personal view on Christ's identity as the Son of God (something that goes against the majority of current Jewish faiths). Now there's an interesting thing. Apparently even Calvin didn't have your guts if this, indeed, is what you mean. Yes, I know you don't mean what you said... but keep in mind that traditions of man, though in some cases bring God glory, are NOTHING compared to the sovereignty of God.

 

[TannarDarr]

Are you saying that you don't agree with my personal view on Christ's identity as the Son of God (something that goes against the majority of current Jewish faiths). Now there's an interesting thing. Apparently even Calvin didn't have your guts if this, indeed, is what you mean. Yes, I know you don't mean what you said... but keep in mind that traditions of man, though in some cases bring God glory, are NOTHING compared to the sovereignty of God.

Sister, I'm done. This is the blunt of it.

I made a statement. I didn't back it up, you were fine to question it. I tried to reason, but proof was required. I get it from a Jewish education program.

And you want to say that you know better than them. Granted I took the first one I found, but why bother fishing through them all, they will all say the same thing.

SO YOU deem yourself a bigger authority.

I can't argue with that.

I tried to convince a man he wasn't GOD once too, but it's hard to argue with God.

I learned my lesson then.

I bow to your original information that supersedes 4000 years of faith. Yo mama must be proud.

 

[SpiritofFire]

I don't struggle with any of them. You are cutting one in half and throwing out the part you can't fit into your "theology".

I've explained enough for you to understand, but you just ignored the post that did the explaining. You give me no reason to think repeating myself will have any fruit. SO YOU DO THE WORK, scroll back.

Explain what? The issue was not about the verses as to how the OP was treated for posting them. But in regards to those verses, I will not confuse what 'all' means. I thought we both agreed that kids can understand this form of simplicity.

 

[TannarDarr]

Explain what? The issue was not about the verses as to how the OP was treated for posting them. But in regards to those verses, I will not confuse what 'all' means. I thought we both agreed that kids can understand this form of simplicity.

And you still evade.

Just say, I can't explain it, because I don't understand it, and let me throw you a bone. Honesty is the best policy.

 

[SpiritofFire]

And you still evade.

Just say, I can't explain it, because I don't understand it, and let me throw you a bone. Honesty is the best policy.

What am I evading? Tell me specifically what I have wrong.

 

[TannarDarr]

What am I evading? Tell me specifically what I have wrong.

Just back the conversation up to the start. You started evading there. Stop playing. YOu don't want to discuss it and stuff, so don't posture. You guys wear me out.

 

[TannarDarr]

Go back to post 119

I was discussing scripture, and a specific verse. You claimed it meant something that isn't written. I called you on it.

Your response was to turn the conversation to a personal attack at me.

"DO YOU SIN"
I answered it though, rude and disrespectful and as evasive as it was..... I'm still working with you and over looking your offenses....

I answered summ'n like, Whether I do or do not, does not affect scripture, it says what it says.

Since then, you've done anything you can to keep to going back there and answering it.

If you keep pretending, I'll keep trying, but you can do us both a favor, and admit you can't answer it, you don't have an answer for it, you refuse to, or whatEVER is the reason you are being deliberately evasive, and make this a done deal.

You took the chat from exegesis, to questions about my life with God. THE ONLY reason you did that was to attack the argument through me. WHEN I AM IRRELEVANT TO THE ARGUMENT.

That makes you a rude, disrespectful person. WHETHER IT WAS premeditated or not, I don't know.

This is just ONE example that is repeated in nearly every thread I've been in. The same pattern of behavior happens each time.

So.... what are you goint to have here. are you going to leave and we can laugh it off, it's over, or sit here and pretend you are really going to discuss.

I respect you enough to stick around, even though I'm quite convinced it's futile. I wont' find out I'm wrong unless I see it through though.

 

[Abiding]

 

[Abiding]

Go back to post 119

I was discussing scripture, and a specific verse. You claimed it meant something that isn't written. I called you on it.

Your response was to turn the conversation to a personal attack at me.

"DO YOU SIN"
I answered it though, rude and disrespectful and as evasive as it was..... I'm still working with you and over looking your offenses....

I answered summ'n like, Whether I do or do not, does not affect scripture, it says what it says.

Since then, you've done anything you can to keep to going back there and answering it.

If you keep pretending, I'll keep trying, but you can do us both a favor, and admit you can't answer it, you don't have an answer for it, you refuse to, or whatEVER is the reason you are being deliberately evasive, and make this a done deal.

You took the chat from exegesis, to questions about my life with God. THE ONLY reason you did that was to attack the argument through me. WHEN I AM IRRELEVANT TO THE ARGUMENT.

That makes you a rude, disrespectful person. WHETHER IT WAS premeditated or not, I don't know.

This is just ONE example that is repeated in nearly every thread I've been in. The same pattern of behavior happens each time.

So.... what are you goint to have here. are you going to leave and we can laugh it off, it's over, or sit here and pretend you are really going to discuss.

I respect you enough to stick around, even though I'm quite convinced it's futile. I wont' find out I'm wrong unless I see it through though.

ok i had to read a few posts to see a problem....unfortunately i didnt see that asking you if you sin anything
but a common impulsive normal question responding to your immature understanding of the scripture you were explaining...questions like that are "Not" offensive..they just save time......in the meantime id say "if" your getting resistance here it could be from
your character if you actually have any.

By the way are you a critic? of people? Wait i got it

i can vouch for the fruity flavored ones