Divorced does not mean "put away"...or does it?

[BradC]

Fornication of any kind may be grounds for divorce for those with hardness of heart, but was it that way from the beginning? Many believers have failed the test of marriage and separated and even divorced and remarried. Let me ask some of you who may have a good answer. Is their redemption available for the believer who has divorced and remarried when fornication was not involved? OR... Do they have to live the rest of their life living in adultery being remarried? If both parties were mutual on the divorce and both were remarried, can they ever get back together by counting their second marriage void, even if they have children? Have fun with those senarios and let me know what you come up with.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Fornication of any kind may be grounds for divorce for those with hardness of heart, but was it that way from the beginning? Many believers have failed the test of marriage and separated and even divorced and remarried. Let me ask some of you who may have a good answer. Is their redemption available for the believer who has divorced and remarried when fornication was not involved? OR... Do they have to live the rest of their life living in adultery being remarried? If both parties were mutual on the divorce and both were remarried, can they ever get back together by counting their second marriage void, even if they have children? Have fun with those senarios and let me know what you come up with.

What do you mean by 'redemption'? Eternal salvation? I don't believe a true believer can lose his or her salvation (Romans 8.38-39).

 

[Misty77]

I think you are reading a lot into this verse. Paul seems to be saying: the Christian is not morally responsible for the actions of an unbelieving spouse, and if s/he leaves, then the Christian can't stop the other from going out of the door.

But I don't see any reference to remarriage in what Paul is saying here.

It means that one is free from the marriage vows. If one is not bound by marriage vows, then one is free to marry. What else would "bound" be referencing in regard to marriage?

 

[faroukfarouk]

It means that one is free from the marriage vows. If one is not bound by marriage vows, then one is free to marry. What else would "bound" be referencing in regard to marriage?

Verse 15 seems to say that the person is not morally bound to attempt to stop the spouse from departing. But we may note that Paul has just said in verse 11: 'But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband'.

Unless Paul is supposed to be sanctioning polygamy when the departed spouse is reconciled to her husband, it clearly doesn't mean get divorced and remarried.

 

[Misty77]

Verse 15 seems to say that the person is not morally bound to attempt to stop the spouse from departing. But we may note that Paul has just said in verse 11: 'But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband'.

Unless Paul is supposed to be sanctioning polygamy when the departed spouse is reconciled to her husband, it clearly doesn't mean get divorced and remarried.

He also says for those who are unmarried to remain unmarried. Does that mean that it is wrong to look for a spouse?

Or maybe there is a little more back story involved.

 

[guestno2]

...so basically I'm asking if remarriage is ok

Hello ther,
how can I say this without being cruel or hard.. hm,well, be glad that you are in the states… apparently there are more option for you as here…

If you were here (my country) and especially in my home church, you couldn’t even think about that, not to mention speak aloud of that… no way

I mean at least in my home church not. In other churches (sometimes I visit pentacostals and baptists) maybe..maybe.


But our approach is something like.. Are you divorced? Well, deal with it, cause you are in this matter doomed forever. Meaning no marriage for you ever. NO marriage with divorced woman or man ever. Doesn’t matter if you are young with children and your nonbeliever husband left you with no money, house, or whatever. Just no way. So yes, here it means put away.


Also, where I come from, there is just one verse form Bible we speak about in this case and it is God hates divorce
(..for the Lord, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away.. mal2,16)
well and maybe that one from matt.19
..what therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Dot.

Nothing less, nothing more.
And yes, we do know about babble-ling that … if the unbelieving depart, let him ... etc etc … and we usually respect saint Paul, but in this case paul or not paul ..apostol not apostol, he had no vote on this .. God hates divorce and thats the end.


One example..

Some time ago happened really sad and terrible occurrence from my grandparents village, with this christian woman who had pagan husband who slept with her (and his) own daughter, and yet wife didn’t divorced him (personally I would probably kill him… with all christian love off course… and then I would willingly went to prison for rest of my life) but she “just” pray for him, pray for streng to forgive him and forgive her daughter (she wasn’t child, she was already adult, with little bit mentally issues … but yet!).
She did not divorced him, she didn’t even report him to the police, her neighbors did when the girl get pregnant and told them who father is…. I remember that even my opapa and oma (grandparents) who were ..you would probably say reallyHardcoreScribes… but I’m saying trueAndLovingOldTimeChurchKindaChristiansWhoWouldDieForChristWithoutBlinkingEye.. and even they said (not publicly thou) that this would be maybe a case for considering divorce…

So, what was I saying?

Be glad that you are in the usa …


be blessed


Ps. Personally, I would never married divorced man, but well, I’m apparently from strange place, as I heard…


[FONT=&quot]Ps don’t be all of you worried, we still care about paul and his saint opinions.. for example when our brother (one of those olders) widowed and one year after wanted to get married a second time, 80% members of our church get upset with him (I admit that I too, cause I loved his deceased wife very much) and 50% of us beat his head (figuratively, at least what I know, hah) with Paul’s words …but she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God… 1 cor. 7,40 so we care about paul and we even have applied what paul said for women in the case of our older brother . So, we can respect Paul.. absolutely … just sayin[/FONT]
be blessed

 

[faroukfarouk]

He also says for those who are unmarried to remain unmarried. Does that mean that it is wrong to look for a spouse?

Or maybe there is a little more back story involved.

Are you equating unmarried as in single, and unmarried as in departed from one's spouse?

 

[Misty77]

Are you equating unmarried as in single, and unmarried as in departed from one's spouse?

Ok, we're done. God bless.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Ps. Personally, I would never married divorced man, but well, I’m apparently from strange place, as I heard…

You are under absolutely no obligation to think that you ought to marry a divorced man, simply because some Christians in North America find it convenient.

 

[BradC]

What do you mean by 'redemption'? Eternal salvation? I don't believe a true believer can lose his or her salvation (Romans 8.38-39).

Good question and I should have clarified. Redemption in this context would be the ability of God to buy back and redeem the second marriage even though the divorce of the first was not approved by God. Does the second marriage have to continue as one that is not recognized by God or is God able to bring redemption into that marriage and buy it back to the glory of God. I realize there could be hardships, but if God can win both of their hearts in that second marriage, when nothing can be done about the first, can that marriage be the two becoming one flesh or can that never happen? This is an inquiry for discussion and not condemnation.

Isaiah 50:2 Wherefore, when I came, was there no man? when I called, was there none to answer? Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? behold, at my rebuke I dry up the sea, I make the rivers a wilderness: their fish stinketh, because there is no water, and dieth for thirst.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Ok, we're done. God bless.
View attachment 73670

We were not getting anywhere. The Lord is the One who should be acknowledged as bringing unmarried people together.

And as regards divorce/remarriage in Romans 7, He will not lead people in a path against His Word.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Good question and I should have clarified. Redemption in this context would be the ability of God to buy back and redeem the second marriage even though the divorce of the first was not approved by God. Does the second marriage have to continue as one that is not recognized by God or is God able to bring redemption into that marriage and buy it back to the glory of God. I realize there could be hardships, but if God can win both of their hearts in that second marriage, when nothing can be done about the first, can that marriage be the two becoming one flesh or can that never happen? This is an inquiry for discussion and not condemnation.

Stated differently, is it acceptable for Christians to be one flesh with two living people? I think 1 Corinthians 7 and Romans 7 and the statements of the Lord Jesus in the Gospels have the answer.

 

[iamsoandso]

Hello ther,
how can I say this without being cruel or hard.. hm,well, be glad that you are in the states… apparently there are more option for you as here…

If you were here (my country) and especially in my home church, you couldn’t even think about that, not to mention speak aloud of that… no way

I mean at least in my home church not. In other churches (sometimes I visit pentacostals and baptists) maybe..maybe.


But our approach is something like.. Are you divorced? Well, deal with it, cause you are in this matter doomed forever. Meaning no marriage for you ever. NO marriage with divorced woman or man ever. Doesn’t matter if you are young with children and your nonbeliever husband left you with no money, house, or whatever. Just no way. So yes, here it means put away.


Also, where I come from, there is just one verse form Bible we speak about in this case and it is God hates divorce
(..for the Lord, the God of Israel, saith that he hateth putting away.. mal2,16)
well and maybe that one from matt.19
..what therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.

Dot.

Nothing less, nothing more.
And yes, we do know about babble-ling that … if the unbelieving depart, let him ... etc etc … and we usually respect saint Paul, but in this case paul or not paul ..apostol not apostol, he had no vote on this .. God hates divorce and thats the end.


One example..

Some time ago happened really sad and terrible occurrence from my grandparents village, with this christian woman who had pagan husband who slept with her (and his) own daughter, and yet wife didn’t divorced him (personally I would probably kill him… with all christian love off course… and then I would willingly went to prison for rest of my life) but she “just” pray for him, pray for streng to forgive him and forgive her daughter (she wasn’t child, she was already adult, with little bit mentally issues … but yet!).
She did not divorced him, she didn’t even report him to the police, her neighbors did when the girl get pregnant and told them who father is…. I remember that even my opapa and oma (grandparents) who were ..you would probably say reallyHardcoreScribes… but I’m saying trueAndLovingOldTimeChurchKindaChristiansWhoWouldDieForChristWithoutBlinkingEye.. and even they said (not publicly thou) that this would be maybe a case for considering divorce…

So, what was I saying?

Be glad that you are in the usa …


be blessed


Ps. Personally, I would never married divorced man, but well, I’m apparently from strange place, as I heard…


Ps don’t be all of you worried, we still care about paul and his saint opinions.. for example when our brother (one of those olders) widowed and one year after wanted to get married a second time, 80% members of our church get upset with him (I admit that I too, cause I loved his deceased wife very much) and 50% of us beat his head (figuratively, at least what I know, hah) with Paul’s words …but she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God… 1 cor. 7,40 so we care about paul and we even have applied what paul said for women in the case of our older brother . So, we can respect Paul.. absolutely … just sayin
be blessed

hey thats good coming from someone who is young,good job. i like the way you coined the phrase "in the states",,,as we all can clearly see any and every biblical awakening is "as in the states",,,that is they assume each and every biblical answer will be found and revolve around the u.s. Constitution and the laws passed in the u.s, should apply both worldwide and thru all history(in their opinion). now they the more i watch do this without thinking,as if innocent,,,ask them about the mark of the beast,,,,,they'll pull out a dollar,and talk about George,or Lincoln,,maybe the strange symbols on their money as if the rest of the world and the bible is at the disposal of "the united states",,,,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

p.s.,,,,,,,,,bare in mind as you discuss divorce(THE WHOLE REST OF THE WORLD ARE NOT BOUND BY THE LAWS OF DIVORCE AS IN THE U.S.),,,,they are completely different in the other nations on the planet earth,,,,,,and "WE ALSO ARE TRYING TO MATCH THEM TO THE SCRIPTURES",,,as they should apply,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

and here is the big joke,,,,a Muslim,converted to Christianity by a friend who is christian,,,has three wives and 13 children. sees the error,so wife #1 stays his wife and wife 2 and 3 and the children from then are sent back to Pakistan and the daughters cannot any longer marry so they are killed,and the children are abandoned?,,,,,,

now if living in the states after conversion to Christianity(illegal to have more than 1 wife) so wife 2 and 3 become niece and cousin. then when the American men see them they flirt with them and ask them on dates,they say no.,,,,they say no why?,,they are married but cannot tell.,,,,strange situation is it not?,,,seems as though Christians spent a lot of time planning how to convert the unbeliever and "O,,,,TIME PLANNING HOW TO LIVE WITH THEM AFTER CONVERSION",,,,,,,,,

 

[Fishbait]

Divorce & Remarrige - Page 5

Divorce and Remarriage

Does Put Away & Divorce mean the same? - Christian Forums


I am dating a divorced woman and this topic came up. Bible translations are not consistent and inaccuracies exist. If anyone has clarity please provide. The links at the top has a very compelling argument to why divorced does not mean put away, and NIV is incorrectly translated in this regard. (I mean no disrespect but) if you DON'T believe the NIV is partially incorrectly translated then please don't respond to this post because there are inaccuracy's in EVERY Bible translation.

A quick summary:
A woman who is "put away" is one who WAS NOT given a written bill of divorcement, and therefore is it adultery to marry her. After she is given a bill of divorcement there is a reason to believe that marrying her is NOT adultery...because she is now properly divorced.

Details:
NIV is innacurate. Going to the greek roots provides clarity.

Luke 16:18 “Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.”

Whoever ‘putteth away’ his wife (husband) commits adultery! This practice was cruel and was adulterous, but it was not divorce. This New Testament word, translated ‘put away’ is a form of the Greek word ‘apoluo’. It is the word in Greek which parallels the Hebrew word ‘shalach’ – ‘put away.’

‘Apoluo’, the Greek word for ‘putting away’, was not technically divorce, though often used synonymously.

He said when you put away a wife (without a written bill of divorce), and marry another (while still married), you are guilty of adultery. And the women who is ‘put away’ though abandoned, is still married. She would commit adultery if she married again (Luke 16:18)


Old Syriac text, a revision of the Peshitta, the scribe felt the need to add into Mark 10:11 the supplementary "and any man who divorces his wife and takes another commits adultery" which serves as confirmation, that even at that time, "putting away" a spouse was not considered to be divorce.


"It has been said, that, he who breaks up(שרי)with his wife shall give to her a certificate of divorce(דוללא). Therefore I am telling you that anyone who suffices with breaking up(שרי) with his wife, except in the case of her running around, forces her to commit adultery, and he who takes such an abandoned(שביקתא) woman commits adultery." - Matay 5:31-32

First of all, no matter what view one takes on the issue of divorce, it is important to remember Malachi 2:16: “I hate divorce, says the LORD God of Israel.” According to the Bible, marriage is a lifetime commitment. “So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate” (Matthew 19:6). God realizes, though, that since marriages involve two sinful human beings, divorces are going to occur. In the Old Testament, He laid down some laws in order to protect the rights of divorcees, especially women (Deuteronomy 24:1-4). Jesus pointed out that these laws were given because of the hardness of people’s hearts, not because they were God’s desire (Matthew 19:8).

The controversy over whether divorce and remarriage is allowed according to the Bible revolves primarily around Jesus’ words in Matthew 5:32 and 19:9. The phrase “except for marital unfaithfulness” is the only thing in Scripture that possibly gives God’s permission for divorce and remarriage. Many interpreters understand this “exception clause” as referring to “marital unfaithfulness” during the “betrothal” period. In Jewish custom, a man and a woman were considered married even while they were still engaged or “betrothed.” According to this view, immorality during this “betrothal” period would then be the only valid reason for a divorce.

However, the Greek word translated “marital unfaithfulness” is a word which can mean any form of sexual immorality. It can mean fornication, prostitution, adultery, etc. Jesus is possibly saying that divorce is permissible if sexual immorality is committed. Sexual relations are an integral part of the marital bond: “the two will become one flesh” (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5; Ephesians 5:31). Therefore, any breaking of that bond by sexual relations outside of marriage might be a permissible reason for divorce. If so, Jesus also has remarriage in mind in this passage. The phrase “and marries another” (Matthew 19:9) indicates that divorce and remarriage are allowed in an instance of the exception clause, whatever it is interpreted to be. It is important to note that only the innocent party is allowed to remarry. Although it is not stated in the text, the allowance for remarriage after a divorce is God’s mercy for the one who was sinned against, not for the one who committed the sexual immorality. There may be instances where the “guilty party” is allowed to remarry, but it is not taught in this text.

Some understand 1 Corinthians 7:15 as another “exception,” allowing remarriage if an unbelieving spouse divorces a believer. However, the context does not mention remarriage, but only says a believer is not bound to continue a marriage if an unbelieving spouse wants to leave. Others claim that abuse (spousal or child) is a valid reason for divorce even though it is not listed as such in the Bible. While this may very well be the case, it is never wise to presume upon the Word of God.

Sometimes lost in the debate over the exception clause is the fact that whatever “marital unfaithfulness” means, it is an allowance for divorce, not a requirement for it. Even when adultery is committed, a couple can, through God’s grace, learn to forgive and begin rebuilding their marriage. God has forgiven us of so much more. Surely we can follow His example and even forgive the sin of adultery (Ephesians 4:32). However, in many instances, a spouse is unrepentant and continues in sexual immorality. That is where Matthew 19:9 can possibly be applied. Many also look to quickly remarry after a divorce when God might desire them to remain single. God sometimes calls people to be single so that their attention is not divided (1 Corinthians 7:32-35). Remarriage after a divorce may be an option in some circumstances, but that does not mean it is the only option.

It is distressing that the divorce rate among professing Christians is nearly as high as that of the unbelieving world. The Bible makes it abundantly clear that God hates divorce (Malachi 2:16) and that reconciliation and forgiveness should be the marks of a believer’s life (Luke 11:4; Ephesians 4:32). However, God recognizes that divorce will occur, even among His children. A divorced and/or remarried believer should not feel any less loved by God, even if the divorce and/or remarriage is not covered under the possible exception clause of Matthew 19:9. God often uses even the sinful disobedience of Christians to accomplish great good.


Read more: What does the Bible say about divorce and remarriage?​

 

[faroukfarouk]

Fishbait: the word which some render 'marital unfaithfulness' in Matthew 5 is actually porneia , which is a distinct word from adultery (also used in Matthew 5 in a context clearly indicating a breach of the marital relationship). Where both are used, then presumably the reference with porneia is to relations out of marriage.

 

[Selihah]

...so basically I'm asking if remarriage is ok

Yes, it is OK. And No, neither you nor your new wife would be considered adulterers.

 

[faroukfarouk]

Yes, it is permitted.

Are you going by the New Testament, as opposed to the Old Testament?

 

[Selihah]

Are you going by the New Testament, as opposed to the Old Testament?

I go by God's very own words. Would you like me to quote Him for you?