Do we Believe Jesus and/or Obey Jesus?

[Hizikyah]

So which day of the week is "the LORD's Day"? (Rev 1:10).

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]By all 4 accounts He had already Resurrected before the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day/ Sunday

[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Matthew 28:1-6, "”But late in the sabbath, as it was dawning into day one of the week, Miryam from Maḡdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. And see, there was a great earthquake, for a messenger of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]came down out of heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. And the guards trembled for fear of him, and became like dead men. And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]who was impaled. He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay.”[/FONT]



“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]it was dawning into day one of the week”...“He is not here, for He was raised”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mark 16:1-6, “And when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who shall roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb for us?” And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, for it was extremely large. And having entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here! See the place where they laid Him.”[/FONT]



“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]very early on day one of the week”...“He was raised – He is not here”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 24:1-3, “But on day one of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. And having entered, they did not find the body of the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]on day one of the week, at early dawn”...“they did not find the body of the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 20:1, “And on the first day of the week Miryam from Maḡdala came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.”[/FONT]


“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]on the first day of the week”...“the stone had been removed from the tomb”[/FONT]

 

[Nehemiah6]

By all 4 accounts He had already Resurrected before the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day/ Sunday

That shoud say "before dawn" on the 1st day/Sunday.

As you can see from the Scriptures quoted Christ had left the tomb before "early dawn" (presumably 4 - 6 am). But since the Hebrew first day of the week had already begun the previous evening after sunset, Christ arose anywhere between 6:00 p.m. Saturday evening and 6:00 a.m. Sunday morning. Thus this is indeed "the Lord's Day" and there is no escaping its significance. So to be meticulous about the matter, people who wish to observe the 7th day must also observe the 8th day.

 

[MarcR]

Yeah that is exactly what I was saying, and is why I said this:



That does not then make the 7th day not set apart.

The Seventh day is indeed still set apart. If you see the Law as a pathway to righteousness then you do well to observe the Sabbath.

I realize that the Law including the Sabbath is NOT a pathway to righteousness.

I do happen to observe the Sabbath; but I don't believe that I am required to observe it (even being Jewish), and I certainly don't believe anyone else is required to observe it.

Jesus has given me a better path to righteousness and I am content to take the path He has given me.

 

[Hizikyah]

it is the return of the Messiah when He executes judgment upon those that remain:

Revelation 1:9-10, “I, Yoḥanan, both your brother and co-sharer in pressure, and in the reign and endurance of יהושע Messiah, came to be on the island that is called Patmos for the Word of יהוה and for the witness of יהושע Messiah. I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of יהוה,a and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet.”

Isaiah 13:9-11, “Howl, for the day of יהוה is near! It comes as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore all hands go limp, every man’s heart melts, and they shall be afraid. Pangs and sorrows take hold of them, they are in pain as a woman in labor; they are amazed at one another, their faces aflame! See, the day of יהוה is coming, fierce, with wrath and heat of displeasure, to lay the earth waste, and destroy its sinners from it. For the stars of the heavens and their constellations do not give off their light. The sun shall be dark at its rising, and the moon not send out its light. And I shall punish the world for its evil, and the wrong for their crookedness, and shall put an end to the arrogance of the proud, and lay low the pride of the ruthless.”

Ezekiel 13:1-9, "And the word of יהוה came to me, saying, Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Yisra’yl who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, ‘Hear the word of יהוה!, "Thus said the Master יהוה, “Woe to the foolish prophets, who are following their own spirit, without having had a vision! O Yisra’yl, your prophets have been like foxes among ruins. You have not gone up into the breaches, nor do you build a wall for the house of Yisra’yl to stand in battle on the day of יהוה, Their visions are false and their divinations a lie, saying, ‘Thus declares יהוה,’ when יהוה has not sent them, yet they expected the word to be confirmed! Have you not seen a false vision, and have you not spoken a divination of lies? You say, ‘יהוה declares,’ when I have not spoken. Therefore thus said the Master יהוה, “Because you have spoken falsehood and seen lies, therefore see, I am against you,” declares the Master יהוה, My hand shall be against the prophets who see falsehood and who divine lies. They shall not be in the council of My people, nor be written in the record of the house of Yisra’yl, and they shall not enter into the land of Yisra’yl. And you shall know that I am the Master יהוה."

Joel 1:14-20, "1:14, "Set apart a fast. Call an assembly, gather the elders, all the inhabitants of the land, into the House of יהוה your Strength, and cry out to יהוה."1:15, "Alas for the day! For the day of יהוה is near, and it comes as destruction from the Almighty."1:16, "Is not the food cut off before our eyes, joy and gladness from the House of our Mighty One?"1:17, "The seed has rotted under their clods, storehouses are laid waste, granaries are broken down, for the grain has withered."1:18, "How the beasts moan! The herds of cattle are restless, because they have no pasture. The flocks of sheep also perish."1:19, "I cry to You יהוה, for fire has consumed the pastures of the wilderness, and a flame has set on fire all the trees of the field."1:20, "Even the beasts of the field cry out to You, for the water streams are dried up, and fire has consumed the pastures of the wilderness."

I came to be in the spirit:

Revelation 1:9-10, “I, Yoḥanan, both your brother and co-sharer in pressure, and in the reign and endurance of יהושע Messiah, came to be on the island that is called Patmos for the Word of יהוה and for the witness of יהושע Messiah. I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of יהוה, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet.”

Revelation 4:1-3, “After this I looked and saw a door having been opened in the heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, “Come up here and I shall show you what has to take place after this. And immediately I came to be in the Spirit and saw a throne set in the heaven, and One sat on the throne. And He who sat there was like a jasper and a ruby stone in appearance. And there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance.”

​

so where is your Scriptual evidence that the Lord's day is sunday?

By all 4 accounts He had already Resurrected before the 1[SUP]st[/SUP] day/ Sunday



Matthew 28:1-6, "”But late in the sabbath, as it was dawning into day one of the week, Miryam from Maḡdala and the other Miryam came to see the tomb. And see, there was a great earthquake, for a messenger of יהוה came down out of heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat on it. And his appearance was like lightning, and his garments as white as snow. And the guards trembled for fear of him, and became like dead men. And the messenger responding, said to the women, “Do not be afraid, for I know that you seek יהושע who was impaled. He is not here, for He was raised, as He said. Come, see the place where the Master lay.”



“it was dawning into day one of the week”...“He is not here, for He was raised”



Mark 16:1-6, “And when the Sabbath was past, Miryam from Maḡdala, and Miryam the mother of Ya‛aqoḇ, and Shelomah bought spices, to go and anoint Him. And very early on day one of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen. And they said among themselves, “Who shall roll away the stone from the entrance of the tomb for us?” And looking up, they saw that the stone had been rolled away, for it was extremely large. And having entered into the tomb, they saw a young man sitting on the right, wearing a white robe, and they were greatly astonished. And he said to them, “Do not be much astonished. You seek יהושע of Natsareth, who was impaled. He was raised – He is not here! See the place where they laid Him.”



“very early on day one of the week”...“He was raised – He is not here”



Luke 24:1-3, “But on day one of the week, at early dawn, they came to the tomb, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and they found the stone rolled away from the tomb. And having entered, they did not find the body of the Master יהושע.”


“on day one of the week, at early dawn”...“they did not find the body of the Master יהושע”



John 20:1, “And on the first day of the week Miryam from Maḡdala came early to the tomb, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been removed from the tomb.”


“on the first day of the week”...“the stone had been removed from the tomb”

That shoud say "before dawn" on the 1st day/Sunday.

As you can see from the Scriptures quoted Christ had left the tomb before "early dawn" (presumably 4 - 6 am). But since the Hebrew first day of the week had already begun the previous evening after sunset, Christ arose anywhere between 6:00 p.m. Saturday evening and 6:00 a.m. Sunday morning. Thus this is indeed "the Lord's Day" and there is no escaping its significance. So to be meticulous about the matter, people who wish to observe the 7th day must also observe the 8th day.

In all fou accounts they showed up SUnday and He was already resurrected. A complete study with all the Scriptures can be found here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...-messiah-put-grave-when-did-he-resurrect.html

If look at sincerely it is undebatable, He ressurected before the end of the Sabbath. However for sake of debate, if He did ressurect on Sunday (He did not) but if He did where is the Scripte that makes Sunday a set apart day?

 

[Hizikyah]

The Seventh day is indeed still set apart. If you see the Law as a pathway to righteousness then you do well to observe the Sabbath.

I realize that the Law including the Sabbath is NOT a pathway to righteousness.

I do happen to observe the Sabbath; but I don't believe that I am required to observe it (even being Jewish), and I certainly don't believe anyone else is required to observe it.

Jesus has given me a better path to righteousness and I am content to take the path He has given me.

I never hinted at earning brownie points by guarding the Sabbath, I actually, while not perfect, I think the Sabbath is beneficial to me as it gives me a focus to ignore the rest of the distractions and look to Him, during the week, while at work, etc. one can not focus like this, not that work is wrong but noone can focus on Him while working. Unless we change the meaningof the word of focus. To sum it up, the Sabbath is a blessing to me IMO and I don't and never did claim to be righteous because I seek top guard it. Honestly why would that even be a topic to say to me, as what did I say that warranted that or implied that? Also I would like to ask you what benefit if any you thuink it has for you?

 

[HisPeace]

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." James 2:19

"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have You come here to torture us before the proper time?" Matthew 8:29

"You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?" James 2:20

 

[Hizikyah]

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." James 2:19

"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have You come here to torture us before the proper time?" Matthew 8:29

"You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?" James 2:20

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 11:6, “But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to Yah has to believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who earnestly seek Him.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 5:9, “And having been perfected, He became the Causer of everlasting salvation to all those obeying Him.”[/FONT]

Matthew 28:19-20, “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

Psalm 119:9, “How would a young man cleanse his path? To guard it according to Your word.”

 

[mailmandan]

"You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder." James 2:19

In James 2:19, we see that the demons believe "mental assent" that "there is one God" but they do not believe/entrust their spiritual well being to Christ; have faith/reliance upon Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan, as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works.

"What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have You come here to torture us before the proper time?" Matthew 8:29

Simply believing "mental assent" that Jesus is the Son of God apart from entrusting our spiritual well being to Christ by placing our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Him for salvation does not save.

"You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless?" James 2:20

James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

 

[Nehemiah6]

However for sake of debate, if He did ressurect on Sunday (He did not) but if He did where is the Scripte that makes Sunday a set apart day?

In order to fulfil the Scripture that Christ is "the first fruits of them that slept" the Lord fulfilled the prophetic significance of the Feast of First Fruits which was on THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH (the first day of the week).

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it...And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. (Lev 23:10,11,15,16).

So there is no way that He arose on the sabbath (the day of rest).

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. (1 Cor 15:20)

Furthermore if God sets apart one day and calls it "the Lord's Day" that in itself is sufficient Scripture to establish the first day of the week as the day of Christian worship and rest. The apostle John did not simply concoct that term, since he clearly stated that he was writing the Revelation by Divine inspiration. John was "in the Spirit" on the Lord's Day. Ever since, all Christians have recognized the first day of the week as the Lord's Day.

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. (1 Cor 16:2)

 

[Inquistor]

He (Jesus) used figurative language to emphasize these great spiritual truths.

Would it be too much to ask, that you submit SCRIPTURAL PROOF(S) of would have presented as conjecture? There are other scriptures which tend to negate your claim!


John 6:55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. ... because
My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Do you actually KNOW the difference between REAL and FIGURATIVE?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Would it be too much to ask, that you submit SCRIPTURAL PROOF(S) of would have presented as conjecture? There are other scriptures which tend to negate your claim!


John 6:55 For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink. ... because
My flesh is real food and My blood is real drink. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]


Do you actually KNOW the difference between REAL and FIGURATIVE?

read all of John 6. Your picking a verse out of context to support your view. John 6 does not support it, You can not take John 6 literally, and believe the catholic Eucharist is what Jesus was talking about. It is impossible.

 

[Marcelo]

I never hinted at earning brownie points by guarding the Sabbath,

Hizikyah, if you don't expect brownie points from YHWH for keeping the Sabbath why do you focus so much on it?

 

[Inquistor]

read all of John 6. Your picking a verse out of context to support your view. John 6 does not support it, You can not take John 6 literally, and believe the catholic Eucharist is what Jesus was talking about. It is impossible.

Really? Why does the bible COUNTER your allegation above, in MULTIPLE places?


Bible Search: all things are possible

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Really? Why does the bible COUNTER your allegation above, in MULTIPLE places?


Bible Search: all things are possible

have you read John 6 or not? Don’t talk to me about what you think the rest of the Bible says, talk to me about John 6. Your the one who brought the passage up. Live with it.

Jesus is not talking about the communion or Eucharist in John 6. He is talking about working to search for food which endures forever, Not food which perishes.

The Eucharist perishes, otherwise, you would not have to continue to eat it.. Thus it is NOT the same. (That is one example. We could go over john 6 and find many many more example of why it is not the same)

 

[shrume]

In order to fulfil the Scripture that Christ is "the first fruits of them that slept" the Lord fulfilled the prophetic significance of the Feast of First Fruits which was on THE MORROW AFTER THE SABBATH (the first day of the week).

Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest:And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it...And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. (Lev 23:10,11,15,16).

So there is no way that He arose on the sabbath (the day of rest).

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. (1 Cor 15:20)

Jesus rose from the dead late on the Sabbath (late Saturday afternoon) and presented himself as the firstfruits on Sunday. The reason he did not permit Mary to touch him was that at that time (Sunday morning) he had not yet "gone up" and presented himself in the Temple as the firstfruit offering. Jesus' going up (ascending) is not referring to his ascending to heaven.

Furthermore if God sets apart one day and calls it "the Lord's Day" that in itself is sufficient Scripture to establish the first day of the week as the day of Christian worship and rest. The apostle John did not simply concoct that term, since he clearly stated that he was writing the Revelation by Divine inspiration. John was "in the Spirit" on the Lord's Day. Ever since, all Christians have recognized the first day of the week as the Lord's Day.

In Rev 1:10, where John said "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,..", it is not referring to a day of the week, but to the "day of the Lord". What Rev 1:10 means is that John received revelation concerning the end times (the Lord's Day). It has nothing whatsoever to do with Sunday or any other day of the week.

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. (1 Cor 16:2)

That has nothing to do with setting aside Sunday for worship.

 

[Inquistor]

Jesus rose from the dead late on the Sabbath (late Saturday afternoon) and presented himself as the firstfruits on Sunday. The reason he did not permit Mary to touch him was that at that time (Sunday morning) he had not yet "gone up" and presented himself in the Temple as the firstfruit offering. Jesus' going up (ascending) is not referring to his ascending to heaven.

In Rev 1:10, where John said "I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day,..", it is not referring to a day of the week, but to the "day of the Lord". What Rev 1:10 means is that John received revelation concerning the end times (the Lord's Day). It has nothing whatsoever to do with Sunday or any other day of the week.


That has nothing to do with setting aside Sunday for worship.

But THIS SCRIPTURE does!


Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. ... On the first day of
the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[shrume]

But THIS SCRIPTURE does!


Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. ... On the first day of
the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Where does this part of your commentary come from?

On the first day of the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper. ...

 

[Inquistor]

Where does this part of your commentary come from?

Virtually ALL blue letters in my posts on this forum are HYPERLINKS to my sources, so simply CLICK on my link(s) which you will discover by hovering your mouse over any blue letters, and open that link "in a new tab" (or new window)! Then search THAT PAGE for any keyword you are trying to find, which will generally zoom to whatever bible version(s) that word appeared in, in that particular verse! It kind of like "self-service" made easy!

 

[shrume]

Virtually ALL blue letters in my posts on this forum are HYPERLINKS to my sources, so simply CLICK on my link(s) which you will discover by hovering your mouse over any blue letters, and open that link "in a new tab" (or new window)! Then search THAT PAGE for any keyword you are trying to find, which will generally zoom to whatever bible version(s) that word appeared in, in that particular verse! It kind of like "self-service" made easy!

Yes... I know what links are and how to use them..

On the page you linked to, the only Bible version that uses the phrase "to share in the Lord's Supper" is the New Living Translation, which is not a translation, but a paraphrase. The words "to share in the Lord's Supper" are not in the texts.

Also, I see that the "Aramaic Bible in Plain English" has "we assembled to break the Eucharist". I bet you love that one...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But THIS SCRIPTURE does!


Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break ...[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: s, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. ... On the first day of
the week, we gathered with the local believers to share in the Lord's Supper. ...[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

One thing we know for sure, si they were not celebrating John 6, They were celebrating the last supper he had with his disciples. Where he said do this OFTEN in remembrance of me, Not Seek food which endures forever, which whoever eats will never hunger or thirst. Etc etc..