Do we choose God or did He choose us?

[eternally-gratefull]

just hypothetical. But all are not lost in my hypothetical. God's justice is met by the cross of Christ; He who died for our sins & paid for them. There is nothing unjust about grace. If everyone is a wretch, and God picks some to save, that is not unjust. If no one is willing & the Lord constrains some to be saved, that would not be unjust at all.

Just a hypothetical.

yes it would.

Any God that does not give EVERYONE the same opportunity to be saved is unjust.

Sorry but that is just the facts.

 

[p_rehbein]

Holy Bible:
John 14:6) Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Calvin’s Bible:
John 14:6) From the beginning God predetermined who would come unto Him, and who would not.
Holy Bible:
John 14:10) Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. 11 .) Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 .) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. 13 .) And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 .) If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. 15 .) If ye love me, keep my commandments. 16 .) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Calvin’s Bible:
Verses 10 and 11 do not exist…..
12) Verily, verily I say unto you, He that God predestined from the beginning shall do great works. 13) And whatsoever The Father has predestined, will ye receive. 14) ---blank--- 15) Ye have been predestined to keep my commandments. 16) Ye have no need of any other, for ye were from the beginning predestined to eternal life.
Holy Bible:
23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 .) He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Calvin’s Bible;
23) Ye who have been predestined to love me will do s, and ye will keep my words. 24) They that have been from the beginning predestined to eternal damnation will not keep my words.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This faith to believe that God actually has a Son, takes ones eyes to be opened by God's Spirit, we cannot by our own will, reason or insight grasp this truth.


Matthew 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

Then Romans 1 and all it says, concerning no one has an excuse. is invalid. We might as well throw the rest of scripture out also. We have no hope. no choice. Why even learn, we are going to do what this God wants anyway.

people like Hitler and stalin, we can;t blame them, they were just doing what God wanted them to do. and oh far be it from God to send them to hell. they had no choice but to sin, it was all in Gods design, he forced them to sin, now he is going to condemn them. may it not be so!

sorry brother. I know we will see each other in heaven, and spend eternity with God. But I just can not agree with you on this one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, the Word works in unison with it's Author because the natural mind cannot comprehend the things of God...

1 Corinthians 2:13-14 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

again romans 1.

All em know the things of God, His creation, his moral code. But they chose freely to reject him.

They can not understand how God does things with his children, and everything else for they are foolishness to them

but they can understand the gospel.

The HS convicts the WORLD of sin righteousness and judgment,

He also shows them the way out (christ)

 

[pastac]

Lord please come down here and visit cc make yourself known stop this foolishness being taught in your name! Amen

 

[p_rehbein]

predestination....................................................CROSS

predestination....................................................CROSS

predestination....................................................CROSS

(which do you profess?)

As for me and my family, we claim the precious blood of Jesus Christ shed on Calvary's Cross so that all who believe may be saved........you guys do as you choose.........oh, no, wait, don't have a choice do ya..............

 

[oldthennew]

well, brothers and sisters, we're just very grateful to have been given
the opportunity to partake and be a part of His glorious plan.

we may not get all of the nuts and bolts put together just right,
but my goodness, we've given it our best and will continue to do so.

Thank You, Father for loving us so very much and for making a way
for us to know and love You back, You're just the most incredible
Lovely Being that we could never imagine.....

 

[SeaBass]

This faith to believe that God actually has a Son, takes ones eyes to be opened by God's Spirit, we cannot by our own will, reason or insight grasp this truth.


Matthew 16:16-17 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.

So those that remain blind and lost are the Holy Spirit's fault for His failure to open their eyes. It is man's own responsibility to open his own eyes and if he does not then MAN is accountable for his closed eyes not the Holy Spirit. Cannot take this responsibility away from man putting man's fault, blame, accountability upon the Holy Spirit

 

[Apostol2013]

Yes mindless arguing over nonsense ,but the message God is making is this that we make the right choices not to chose death over life but instead chose life by chosing jesus , and what does it mean to chose jesus it means no more sin

 

[Apostol2013]

predestination....................................................CROSS

predestination....................................................CROSS

predestination....................................................CROSS

(which do you profess?)

As for me and my family, we claim the precious blood of Jesus Christ shed on Calvary's Cross so that all who believe may be saved........you guys do as you choose.........oh, no, wait, don't have a choice do ya..............

It has never been no other than Jesus but we must be well studied ,well balanced to believe the word of God but by faith we know he has chosen us from the beginning of creation before He had created all things He had already known us .

 

[Apostol2013]

And to mention so thT there be no more confusion i am not a calvinist ,but i believe in the eternal God ,revealed to us in jesus

 

[Jason0047]

From where did this come on the issue of choosing? Does Heb have the word choose?

This is the common error that persons make of not quoting through Heb 6:9 where the passage is explained as that the apostates of 4-8 were never saved. This is consistent with 1 John 2, where apostasy proves never part of the Body of Christ & the declaration is made that those in the Body of Christ stay there.

For the land which hath drunk the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them for whose sake it is also tilled, receiveth blessing from God: but if it beareth thorns and thistles, it is rejected and nigh unto a curse; whose end is to be burned. But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak:

Yes, Peter had received the Holy Spirit. John says so before the arrest of Christ. Moreover, Christ prayed for Peter that Peter's faith would not fail -- and Peter's trust in Christ as Savior never did fail; Peter like any Christian temporarily stopped trusting Christ in a concrete temporary situation of life, as when he walked on water & began to sink.

Yes, I am convinced better things of you. Meaning this is not a hypothetical scenario of falling away. The writer of Hebrews is convinced better things of them in regards to salvation on this topic of apostasy. These words follow immediately about the discussion of rejecting the faith and rejecting Jesus (While having tasted of the Heavenly gifts). They cannot renew this type of apostasy with repentance. They are forever lost and it is a decision that they made and not something God forced upon them. The writer of Hebrews is confident that those he is writing to didn't apostasize like others that they heard who did apostasizee.

For why would God want you to accept Him and then later reject Him?
It's because God doesn't force us to be saved or unsaved.

 

[posthuman]

if we have free will perhaps we ought to seek to get rid of it..

nevertheless, not My will, but Yours, be done.
(Luke 22:42)

 

[Zinzerio]

Acts 4:30
Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus."

 

[Jeff_56]

a lot of deceivers and deceived persons like this.

Jesus says that His Father does not take any pleasure even in the death of the wicked.

He not only desires you yourself to be once and for all and finally saved, He has given His
Life
and
His
Word
and HIS BLOOD to purchase you, if you will.

if you will.

Jesus paid the highest, the greatest, the most generous magnificent grand and painful price

for your soul.................................. if you will.

this cannot be debated nor argued nor realized nor analyzed nor taken apart nor changed

on this forum ...................... too many blatant liars, heretics and unbelievers and no

reasonable way to counter them.

but if you seek and keep seeking HIM, HIS PROMISE, you shall find HIM(and salvation).

maybe your household also.

maybe not.

There is just too many scriptures that support predestination... for me to discard the teaching completely... its a bitter pill to swallow to consider I may by chance not be chosen though.... but if it is God's will for me to be Judas as opposed to Paul, I suppose it is his choice...