Do you believe in Moral Absolutes or Eternal Moral Laws of God?

[Jason0047]

So now it matters what Abraham believed? now it's morally sound? well the 9-11 attackers thought they were doing God a service. A woman who murdered her kids thought she was sending them to heaven. I don't think that's sound reasoning at all. Bottom line He said "sacrifice your son"

Jesus said you will know a false prophet by their fruit. For a good tree cannot bring forth bad fruit and vise versa. By what you said here it makes it sound like you are an atheist or unbeliever (Although I do not believe that is the case), but that is the focus of your thinking here, though. It is atheistic or anti-christ in nature to suggest that we cannot know God versus a false spirit. You are trying to say that we as believers cannot tell the difference of when God asks us to do something versus when a false spirit is asking a person to do something.

The difference is in the fruit by having a relationship with God. Abraham had a relationship with God. Abraham obeyed God (i.e. good fruit) and good blessings had come upon his life.

See, the terrorists were bringing forth bad fruit. They were killing people in a building that were really not a threat to them directly. These people were not planning to attack them. Yet, the people of the nations that God told to destroy were out to attack and destroy them (Both spiritually and physically). Therein lies the difference.

The difference is that Abraham had good fruit in his life with having a real loving relationship with God. So when God asked him to take the life of his son (He didn't have some cooked up belief in his mind that his son would be resurrected). No, no. Scripture testifies that He believes this in Hebrews 11:19. He believed in a good God. A God that would let Him know by the Spirit that Isaac would be resurrected.

 

[Deadtosin]

You are trying to say that we as believers cannot tell the difference of when God asks us to do something versus when a false spirit is asking a person to do something.
.

No, that's not what I'm saying. God uses a still small voice. It is out of love and compassion, but I'll tell you now, if God appeared before me and He told me to go and take that which was not mine and go toward destination unknown- I would bow my head and say "Yes Lord." You see Jason, the issue here is that you seem to believe that an evil spirit can come before me and pretend to be God. I don't share that belief. God protects me and no evil spirit has dominion over me. When I am in prayer to Jesus not just anyone can stand in His place.

 

[Jason0047]

The bible also says "judge not, lest you be judged."

Why should I judge a man who is dead? what do I have to gain?

Paul says, Know ye not that ye shall judge angels? Jesus says to judge righteous judgment. Every time you have a standard of morality is to be in judgment (Whether you speak or don't speak). This passage you are referencing is talking about hypocritical judgment.

 

[Deadtosin]

The difference is in the fruit by having a relationship with God. Abraham had a relationship with God. Abraham obeyed God (i.e. good fruit) and good blessings had come upon his life.

[h=1]Genesis 15:6King James Version (KJV)[/h] [SUP]6 [/SUP]And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

 

[Jason0047]

No, that's not what I'm saying. God uses a still small voice. It is out of love and compassion, but I'll tell you now, if God appeared before me and He told me to go and take that which was not mine and go toward destination unknown- I would bow my head and say "Yes Lord." You see Jason, the issue here is that you seem to believe that an evil spirit can come before me and pretend to be God. I don't share that belief. God protects me and no evil spirit has dominion over me. When I am in prayer to Jesus not just anyone can stand in His place.

There are people who worship a false Christ. For there are many who say Lord, Lord to him but they wil be cast out. So we have to make sure we are worshiping God in Spirit and in truth and not on our own terms by interpreting the Bible incorrectly so as to be led away by false spirits that are telling us to do something we know to be wrong. For I do not believe Abraham was conflicted morally in his final decision to sacrifice his only son because God worked good in his life and God made it clear to Abraham that Isaac was going to be resurrected.

 

[Jason0047]

Genesis 15:6King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he believed in the Lord; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

Yes, I don't believe Abraham thought it was an immoral action on the part of God to take the life of his own son. He had the confidence by the good fruit in his life by God and by the Spirit that his son would be resurrected. Other people today are not believing their children are going to be resurrected and they do not have good fruit in their walk with God if they are planning to kill their kids today. Therein lies the difference that you do not understand.

 

[Jason0047]

For Abraham was SO confident that Isaac was going to be resurrected and that he told his servants that he and his son would meet up with them later. If he didn't have 100% absolute certainty in this fact by faith, then he would not have told them that.

 

[Deadtosin]

Yes, I don't believe Abraham thought it was an immoral action on the part of God to take the life of his own son. He had the confidence by the good fruit in his life by God and by the Spirit that his son would be resurrected. Other people today are not believing their children are going to be resurrected and they do not have good fruit in their walk with God if they are planning to kill their kids today. Therein lies the difference that you do not understand.

Abraham trusted God.. BECAUSE HE IS GOD... You don't have to understand why your father doesn't want you to stick the metal in the outlet, you just have to trust His voice, He does know what's best. I realize that you will not sway your opinion and you will continue to believe what other people tell you. Carry on Jason. I have other things to tend to.

 

[Deadtosin]

For Abraham was SO confident that Isaac was going to be resurrected and that he told his servants that he and his son would meet up with them later. If he didn't have 100% absolute certainty in this fact by faith, then he would not have told them that.

OR he believed God would provide a sacrificial lamb. That is what he told his son, also he probably couldn't just tell everyone. Hey, I'm going up here to kill my son.. BRB

 

[hishealingred]

You cannot place the Bible up against articles which men wrote. If you say here is an article which some guy wrote about a passage of scripture and say it's correct then you are not trusting God's word. To understand the Bible you can only place the Bible against the Bible and rely on the Holy Spirit alone for understanding. The best example of human corruption and interpretation vs the Holy Spirit interpretation in the stupid watch tower magazine. Show me where it says Jesus made grape juice instead of wine? You cannot just add your own interpretation to God's word.

While that is true, but God still uses people to teach others and whatnot about God, because others might have more knowledge than you/me/us and whomever. Now I am not therefore saying that what the man said in the article was true.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." 1 John 4:1

Jesus had told us to be:

"Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves." Matthew 10:6

"9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ." Phillipians 1:9-10

"14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." Hebrews 5:14

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." Revelation 3:16


The person does reference biblical verses in this too (the article). It could be what that person who wrote the thing does in fact know, but I am not saying it is and/or isn't. Just be careful with what you say. As I am.

"But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." Matthew 12:36

"22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Matthew 5:22

 

[Deadtosin]

Let no man add or remove from God's Word. That is a very simple and safe rule to abide by. Any time someone adds to the Word you can confidently dismiss it.

 

[Jason0047]

You cannot place the Bible up against articles which men wrote. If you say here is an article which some guy wrote about a passage of scripture and say it's correct then you are not trusting God's word. To understand the Bible you can only place the Bible against the Bible and rely on the Holy Spirit alone for understanding. The best example of human corruption and interpretation vs the Holy Spirit interpretation in the stupid watch tower magazine. Show me where it says Jesus made grape juice instead of wine? You cannot just add your own interpretation to God's word.

Then stop going to church and listening to a man talk about the Bible and then back them up. Stop reading written works or articles here on a forum and give your approval of them with a "like." It is no different. See, as believers we are to have fellowship with each other. In fellowship it is not wrong to endorse another believer in what they had written.

As for JW's (or the Watch Tower people): I am not one of them, nor would I endorse their readings because they do not line up with the Bible. Pointing to what real Christians have said and approving of what they had written (whether it was in a live audio sermon, article, book quotation, a post from a forum) is not adding to God's Word like the JW's do.

Also, you are ignoring the Bible, dictionaries, historical documents, old advertisements, if you believe wine is exclusively alcholic. I believe that when you ignore these things, it is a false view or misunderstanding on a pre-existing verse and it is not about adding to God's Word. Adding to God's Word would creating new words to the Bible.

 

[Deadtosin]

Then stop going to church and listening to a man talk about the Bible and then back them up. Stop reading written works or articles here on a forum and give your approval of them with a "like." It is no different. See, as believers we are to have fellowship with each other. In fellowship it is not wrong to endorse another believer in what they had written.

As for JW's (or the Watch Tower people): I am not one of them, nor would I endorse their readings because they do not line up with the Bible. Pointing to what real Christians have said and approving of what they had written (whether it was in a live audio sermon, article, book quotation, a post from a forum) is not adding to God's Word like the JW's do.

Also, you are ignoring the Bible, dictionaries, historical documents, old advertisements, if you believe wine is exclusively alcholic. I believe that when you ignore these things, it is a false view or misunderstanding on a pre-existing verse and it is not about adding to God's Word. Adding to God's Word would creating new words to the Bible.

There is a huge difference in someone speaking in accordance with the bible and someone adding things to or removing from it.

 

[Jason0047]

Let no man add or remove from God's Word. That is a very simple and safe rule to abide by. Any time someone adds to the Word you can confidently dismiss it.

Adding and taking away from God's Word is what Modern Translations do. In other words, you would have to create your own Bible and add entirely new words to the Bible that were not there before. I believe you have a false view or a misunderstanding on a verse and I do not believe you are deliberately adding to God's Word because of your false belief on a particular passage. Yet you throw "Condemnation" (that does not really apply) my way so as to defend a false belief on a verse, though.

 

[hishealingred]

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." 1 Corinthians 13:12

"Saying, Touch not mine anointed, and do my prophets no harm." Psalm 105:15

"17 And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people out of all Judaea and Jerusalem, and from the sea coast of Tyre and Sidon, which came to hear him, and to be healed of their diseases;18 And they that were vexed with unclean spirits: and they were healed.
19 And the whole multitude sought to touch him: for there went virtue out of him, and healed them all.
20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
27 But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
29 And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also." Luke 6:17-29

"But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life." John 4:14

 

[Jason0047]

There is a huge difference in someone speaking in accordance with the bible and someone adding things to or removing from it.

You would have to publish a Bible that crossed out all the verses that warn you about alcohol in both the OT and the NT for you to take away from God's Word. You have to publish a Bible that inserts imaginary scenarios of drinking intoxicating beverages as being good for you to add to God's Word.

 

[Deadtosin]

Adding and taking away from God's Word is what Modern Translations do. In other words, you would have to create your own Bible and add entirely new words to the Bible that were not there before. I believe you have a false view or a misunderstanding on a verse and I do not believe you are deliberately adding to God's Word because of your false belief on a particular passage. Yet you throw "Condemnation" (that does not really apply) my way so as to defend a false belief on a verse, though.

I use the KJV, hardly a modern translation. My interpretations involve adding and removing nothing. We can use Jewish tradition to know what they were drinking. You have decided to add, that Jesus did not make fermented wine and Abraham only followed God's instruction because he judged it was righteous precisely because he knew God would resurrect His son. You go further to tell us that God did not allow men to have multiple wives, (a wives tale) you called in. No, that's the bible. You are adding, removing and twisting to suit apparently what you NEED to believe in God's righteousness. I have a more simple faith. I know God is real, I know He is righteous and I don't have to judge His actions on anything.

 

[Deadtosin]

You would have to publish a Bible that crossed out all the verses that warn you about alcohol in both the OT and the NT for you to take away from God's Word. You have to publish a Bible that inserts imaginary scenarios of drinking intoxicating beverages as being good for you to add to God's Word.

No I don't. I trust God and I believe in the verse that say's "there is a time for everything under the sun." God is perfect not me and my understanding. Warnings are valid, wine is not forbidden.

 

[Jason0047]

OR he believed God would provide a sacrificial lamb. That is what he told his son, also he probably couldn't just tell everyone. Hey, I'm going up here to kill my son.. BRB

He said that they BOTH would return to them. If he didn't believe this, then he would have lied (Which is a sin). Abraham had the confidence by the Spirit that Isaac would be resurrected (Hebrews 11:19).

 

[Deadtosin]

My bible has countless lessons and truths. It also has stories. I believe them all. I don't have to doctor anything in my bible. I accept it as it is. On every front.