Do you believe in Moral Absolutes or Eternal Moral Laws of God?
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Atheists can read the Bible and say the same thing to you. They can say that they believe them all as literally fiction or based upon legends. They can twist passages in the Bible to make it say what it doesn't say. Doesn't mean they are right though. Praying to God for understanding, proper intepretation of Scripture by using the context and cross references is always the key to properly understanding the Bible.
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Jason, he also told his son that God would provide a sacrifice, was that a lie? When did sacrifices get resurrected. Thought Jesus was the first. And did God lie?
Gen 22:2
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
God knew He wouldn't require Abraham to do this thing? did He lie?
Tell you what, you judge God, and decide what Abraham was thinking, and determine what Jesus did and why He did it, and how He convinced all those Jews at the wedding to drink juice instead of the traditional wine. You figure all that out so it fits in your head man. I just hope nobody else absorbs any of it.
Gen 22:2
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
God knew He wouldn't require Abraham to do this thing? did He lie?
Tell you what, you judge God, and decide what Abraham was thinking, and determine what Jesus did and why He did it, and how He convinced all those Jews at the wedding to drink juice instead of the traditional wine. You figure all that out so it fits in your head man. I just hope nobody else absorbs any of it.
Principles are absolute.
Morals are subject to those principles in regard to the individual situation.
Rather than thinking only of the negative principles "do not", why not focus on the positive principles "go and do".
We know by the fruit, right?
Unless you can predict the future, you don't know what the fruit of an action will be.
Trust God that it will be good.
Morals are subject to those principles in regard to the individual situation.
Rather than thinking only of the negative principles "do not", why not focus on the positive principles "go and do".
We know by the fruit, right?
Unless you can predict the future, you don't know what the fruit of an action will be.
Trust God that it will be good.
Yes, their wrong example should give you a clue. False Biblical cults will add additional writings (i.e. Add to God's Word) as if it is just as authorative as God's Word. Misunderstanding a verses (Which I believe many folks here are doing when they believe Jesus contributed an intoxicating beverage to a drinking party, or that we can sin and still be saved) is folks not reading Scripture correctly. They are spiritually blinded and mis-read the Bible. They look at a verse and see it saying something differently. For example: I believe the Bible talks about Giants or Nephilim. Yet I am not saying those who do not believe in these creatures as taught in the Bible are trying to add or eliminate to God's Word just because they cannot see the truth on this particular point within Scripture.
I. But they drank during biblical times!
A. All people drink, but it makes a difference as to what they drank.
1. The greatest difficulty is getting a definition that is not biased by a person’s desire to justify drinking.
2. Instead of relying on the works of men, we can turn to the Bible and note the pattern
2. Instead of relying on the works of men, we can turn to the Bible and note the pattern
B. Yayin - a generic term used to identify all juice of the grape, fresh, fermented, or anything in between. Used 144 times in Old Testament
1. Nehemiah 5:18 - All kinds of wine
2. Yayin is used of the juice still in the grape
6. Yayin is used of wine mixed with drugs 7. Translation depends on context. It is usually translated “wine”, but that doesn’t indicate intoxicating in and of itself.
2. Yayin is used of the juice still in the grape
a. Isaiah 16:10 - no wine in their presses
b. Deut 28:39 - can’t drink the juice because worms will eat the grapes.
3. Yayin is used of fresh grape juiceb. Deut 28:39 - can’t drink the juice because worms will eat the grapes.
a. Jer 48:33 - The juice ceases to flow from the press
4. Yayin is used of a grape syrup to be mixed with water 5. Yayin is used of fermented juice - Prov 20:16. Yayin is used of wine mixed with drugs 7. Translation depends on context. It is usually translated “wine”, but that doesn’t indicate intoxicating in and of itself.
C. Tirosh - New wine or fresh grape juice; not fermented
D. Chemer - The blood of the grape, fresh and foaming from the vat
1. Deut 32:14 - Pure, unadulterated juice
E. Asis - Fresh juice of any fruit, including grapes
F. Sobe - thickened grape juice
1. Isaiah 1:22 - mixed with water
G. Shekar - strong drink. Any fermented drink made from barley, dates, fruits or grains.
1. Natural beers would be called shekar in Hebrew
2. Shekar is almost always condemned - Prov. 20:1
2. Shekar is almost always condemned - Prov. 20:1
a. The priests were not allowed to drink while on duty - Lev. 10:9
b. Kings were not allowed to drink - Isa 5:11
c. Strong drink was condemned
3. Only two places were it is approvedb. Kings were not allowed to drink - Isa 5:11
c. Strong drink was condemned
a. Num 28:7 - used as a sacrifice to God in a drink offering
b. Deut. 14:26 -
c. Because of the otherwise consistent condemnation, many people believe it was used as enhancement for burning.
4. It should be noted that natural fermentation will not produce any drink greater than 14% alcohol.b. Deut. 14:26 -
c. Because of the otherwise consistent condemnation, many people believe it was used as enhancement for burning.
H. In Greek, we have basically one word that covers all grape products - oinis. It is equivalent to yayin. You can only tell the meaning by the context.
Source:
Lavista Church.
Source:
Lavista Church.
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God has given us laws to live by in this world, I am unclear on there eternal application.
"The light shined in the darkness and the darkness could not comprehend it." Gospel according to John
we live in a world where light and darkness coexist, those of us who seek the light still struggle against the darkness that surrounds us. If we love God we will seek to live in his light and our morals will reflect those of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The moral absolute of God was revealed in Jesus Christ and he is eternal and without sin. Only God is eternal and I do not believe the laws given to Moses have an eternal application. Once we are glorified with Christ (God willing) we will be without sin and have no need for laws. Paul speaks of the law being given so we could see how sinful we are, without sin there is no need for the law.
just a thought
"The light shined in the darkness and the darkness could not comprehend it." Gospel according to John
we live in a world where light and darkness coexist, those of us who seek the light still struggle against the darkness that surrounds us. If we love God we will seek to live in his light and our morals will reflect those of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. The moral absolute of God was revealed in Jesus Christ and he is eternal and without sin. Only God is eternal and I do not believe the laws given to Moses have an eternal application. Once we are glorified with Christ (God willing) we will be without sin and have no need for laws. Paul speaks of the law being given so we could see how sinful we are, without sin there is no need for the law.
just a thought
75 WARNINGS
In fact, there is more Scripture condemning the use of alcoholic beverages than will be found on the subjects of lying, adultery, swearing, cheating, hypocrisy, pride, or even blasphemy.
1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble.
2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality
3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy.
4) Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine.
5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.
6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness.
7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.
8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.
9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.
10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree.
11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin.
12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.
13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated
14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.
15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.
16) Psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.
17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
20) Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty.
21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.
22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks.
23) Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.
24) Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
25) Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable
26) Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.
27) Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.
29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)
30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.
31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk.
32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.
33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit.
34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.
35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.
36) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim.
37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down.
38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment.
39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth.
40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.
41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed.
42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.
43) Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.
44) Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.
45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple.
46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.
47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.
48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.
49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.
50) Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment.
51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine.
52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.
53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine.
54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.
55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God.
56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.
57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.
58) Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame.
59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.
60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine.
61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness.
62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return.
63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality.
64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.
65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.
66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God
67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God.
68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit.
69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness.
70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.
72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.
74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.
75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.
Source:
75 Bible References on Drinking Alcohol
(Note: While I may agree with this portion of the article, that does not mean I believe the same way as the author of this webssite on the topic of alcohol).
Note: Here is the full article with more resources.
Drinking in the Old Testament
(Side Note: While I may agree with this article, I do not agree with other things taught by the Church of Christ. For example: While I believe Christians cannot sin and still be saved, I disagree with their teaching on salvation by works (i.e. baptismal salvation, etc.)).
Drinking in the Old Testament
(Side Note: While I may agree with this article, I do not agree with other things taught by the Church of Christ. For example: While I believe Christians cannot sin and still be saved, I disagree with their teaching on salvation by works (i.e. baptismal salvation, etc.)).
Anyways, check out my 3 Major Points (Using Scripture) on why Jesus could not have served intoxicating wine at the Wedding of Cana here:
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...into-unfermented-wine-not-fermented-wine.html
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...into-unfermented-wine-not-fermented-wine.html
No. We know fruit is bad because it is rotten or tastes bad. We do not wake up one day and see rotten fruit that tastes good. We trust that when fruit rots it is bad fruit. That never changes. Bad fruit is bad fruit. It is the same with good fruit. Good results in a fruit will tell us that it is good fruit.
For example: If what you say is even remotely true (Which it is not), then you would have given us examples of various sins and how we can sometimes break them. But I know murder, rape, theft, drunkenness, witchcraft, etc. is always wrong; And your lack of showing how we can do these evil things under different circumstances is proof in the pudding that what you say is not even remotely true.
For do you have remorse or sorrow over doing right or wrong today?
Does not this type of teaching of yours fall under the category of one being a sociopath?
For example: If what you say is even remotely true (Which it is not), then you would have given us examples of various sins and how we can sometimes break them. But I know murder, rape, theft, drunkenness, witchcraft, etc. is always wrong; And your lack of showing how we can do these evil things under different circumstances is proof in the pudding that what you say is not even remotely true.
For do you have remorse or sorrow over doing right or wrong today?
Does not this type of teaching of yours fall under the category of one being a sociopath?
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