Do you believe in Moral Absolutes or Eternal Moral Laws of God?

[Deadtosin]

1) Genesis 9:20-26 - Noah became drunk; the result was immorality and family trouble. (Key word *Drunk =excess)
2) Genesis 19:30-38 - Lot was so drunk he did not know what he was doing; this led to immorality(DRUNK)
3) Leviticus 10:9-11 - God commanded priests not to drink so that they could tell the difference between the holy and the unholy. (Missing words- "when ye go into the tabernacle" -literally vs 9)
Numbers 6:3 - The Nazarites were told to eat or drink nothing from the grape vine. (Jesus not a Nazarite He was a Nazarene. John was a Nazarite- Hence why he didn't drink wine- of which Jesus admittedly drank that which John did not)
5) Deuteronomy 21:20 - A drunken son was stubborn and rebellious.(Drunken)
6) Deuteronomy 29:5-6 - God gave no grape juice to Israel nor did they have intoxicating drink in the wilderness. (proving what?)
7) Deuteronomy 32:33 - Intoxicating wine is like the poison of serpents, the cruel venom of asps.
8) Judges 13:4, 7, 14 - Samson was to be a Nazarite for life. His mother was told not to drink wine or strong drink.(Nazarite like John)
9) 1 Samuel 1:14-15 - Accused, Hannah said she drank no wine.(looks like the priests drank, and everyone was drinking, the priest thought she was drunk because her lips moved without sound. He asked if she was DRUNK)

[SUP]"9 [/SUP]So Hannah rose up after they had eaten in Shiloh, and after they had drunk. Now Eli the priest sat upon a seat by a post of the temple of the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed unto the Lord, and wept sore.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]And she vowed a vow, and said, O Lord of hosts, if thou wilt indeed look on the affliction of thine handmaid, and remember me, and not forget thine handmaid, but wilt give unto thine handmaid a man child, then I will give him unto the Lord all the days of his life, and there shall no razor come upon his head.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the Lord, that Eli marked her mouth.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]And Eli said unto her, How long wilt thou be drunken? put away thy wine from thee.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And Hannah answered and said, No, my lord, I am a woman of a sorrowful spirit: I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but have poured out my soul before the Lord."


10) 1 Samuel 25:32-38 - Nabal died after a drunken spree. (Drunken)
11) 2 Samuel 11:13 - By getting Uriah drunk, David hoped to cover his sin. (DRUNK)
12) 2 Samuel 13:28-29 - Amnon was drunk when he was killed.(DRUNK)
13) 1 Kings 16:8-10 - The king was drinking himself into drunkenness when he was assassinated (DRUNKINESS
14) 1 Kings 20:12-21 - Ben-Hadad and 32 other kings were drinking when they were attacked and defeated by the Israelites.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And they went out at noon. But Benhadad was drinking himself drunk in the pavilions, he and the kings, the thirty and two kings that helped him. (DRUNK)

15) Esther 1:5-12 - The king gave each one all the drink he wanted. The king was intoxicated when he commanded the queen to come.
[SUP](7 [/SUP]And they gave them drink in vessels of gold, (the vessels being diverse one from another,) and royal wine in abundance, according to the state of the king.16) P (Wine in abundance)

psalm 75:8 - The Lord’s anger is pictured as mixed wine poured out and drunk by the wicked.
17) Proverbs 4:17 - Alcoholic drink is called the wine of violence.
([SUP]17 [/SUP]For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence.) Is Bread wicked?

18) Proverbs 20:1 - Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging.
19) Proverbs 23:19-20 - A wise person will not be among the drinkers of alcoholic beverages.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh:20)

Proverbs 23:21 - Drunkenness causes poverty. (Drunkenness)
21) Proverbs 23:29-30 - Drinking causes woe, sorrow, fighting, babbling, wounds without cause and red eyes.
22) Proverbs 23:31 - God instructs not to look at intoxicating drinks. (Tarry LONG at the wine)
[SUP](30 [/SUP]They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.23)

Proverbs 23:32 - Alcoholic drinks bite like a serpent, sting like an adder.

[SUP]32 [/SUP]At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.)

Proverbs 23:33 - Alcohol causes the drinker to have strange and adulterous thoughts, produces willfulness, and prevents reformation.
[SUP](33 [/SUP]Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.25) (AGAIN TARRYING LONG AT THE WINE)

Proverbs 23:34 - Alcohol makes the drinker unstable)
[SUP](34 [/SUP]Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.) (Still talking about Tarrying long)

Proverbs 23:35 - Alcohol makes the drinker insensitive to pain so he does not perceive it as a warning. Alcohol is habit forming.
[SUP]3(5 [/SUP]They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again. (seeing a pattern in proverbs 23. It all started with vs 30- Tarrying long)

Proverb 31:4-5 - Kings, Princes, and others who rule and judge must not drink alcohol. Alcohol perverts good judgment.
28) Proverbs 31:6-7 - Strong drink could be given to those about to perish or those in pain. Better anesthetics are available today.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

[SUP]7 [/SUP]Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more. (drink to someone with a heavy heart)

29) Ecclesiastes 2:3 - The king tried everything, including intoxicating drink, to see if it satisfied. It did not. (Ecclesiastes 12:8)
30) Ecclesiastes 10:17 - A land is blessed when its leaders do not drink.
31) Isaiah 5:11-12 - Woe to those who get up early to drink and stay up late at night to get drunk. (drunk)
32) Isaiah 5:22 - Woe to "champion" drinkers and "experts" at mixing drinks.
33) Isaiah 19:14 - Drunken men stagger in their vomit. (Drunk)
34) Isaiah 22:12-13 - The Israelites choose to drink; their future looks hopeless to them.

[SUP](11 [/SUP]Ye made also a ditch between the two walls for the water of the old pool: but ye have not looked unto the maker thereof, neither had respect unto him that fashioned it long ago.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]And in that day did the Lord God of hosts call to weeping, and to mourning, and to baldness, and to girding with sackcloth



35) Isaiah 24:9 - Drinkers cannot escape the consequences when God judges.
Isaiah 24 starts with
Behold, the Lord maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]The new wine mourneth, the vine languisheth, all the merryhearted do sigh.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]The mirth of tabrets ceaseth, the noise of them that rejoice endeth, the joy of the harp ceaseth.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]They shall not drink wine with a song; strong drink shall be bitter to them that drink it.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]The city of confusion is broken down: every house is shut up, that no man may come in.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]There is a crying for wine in the streets; all joy is darkened, the mirth of the land is gone.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]In the city is left desolation, and the gate is smitten with destruction.) (nothing specifically about alcohol here. It's talking about sorrow.)


) Isaiah 28:1 - God pronounces woe on the drunkards of Ephraim. (Drunkards
37) Isaiah 28:3 - Proud drunkards shall be trodden down. (Drunkards)
38) Isaiah 28:7 - Priests and prophets stagger and reel from beer and wine, err in vision, and stumble in judgment. (Revert 4 verses ago (Drunkards)
39) Isaiah 28:8 - Drinkers’ tables are covered with vomit and filth. (still with the drunkards)
40) Isaiah 56:9-12 - Drinkers seek their own gain and expect tomorrow to be just like today.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Yea, they are greedy dogs which can never have enough, and they are shepherds that cannot understand: they all look to their own way, every one for his gain, from his quarter.

[SUP]12 [/SUP]Come ye, say they, I will fetch wine, and we will fill ourselves with strong drink; and to morrow shall be as this day, and much more abundant. (anyone else see more than just wine here?)


41) Jeremiah 35:2-14 - The Rechabites drank no grape juice or intoxicating wine and were blessed. (that's nice)
42) Ezekiel 44:21 - Again God instructed the priests not to drink wine.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]Neither shall any priest drink wine, when they enter into the inner court.)
(again it specifies while in a location, not in general)

Daniel 1:5-17 - Daniel refused the king’s intoxicating wine and was blessed for it along with his abstaining friends.

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God: which he carried into the land of Shinar to the house of his god; and he brought the vessels into the treasure house of his god.) Daniel was abstaining from anything from the kings table. Even the meat.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But Daniel purposed in his heart that he would not defile himself with the portion of the king's meat, nor with the wine which he drank: therefore he requested of the prince of the eunuchs that he might not defile himself.
Daniel 5:1 - Belshazzar, ruler of Babylon; led his people in drinking.
45) Daniel 5:2-3 - The king, along with his nobles, wives, and concubines, drank from the goblets which had been taken from God’s temple. (yes this was the problem)
46) Daniel 5:4 - Drinking wine was combined with praising false gods.(hence why Daniel wouldn't partake)
47) Daniel 5:23 - God sent word to Belshazzar that punishment would be swift for the evil he had committed.
48) Hosea 4:11 - Intoxicating wine takes away intelligence.

[SUP]10 [/SUP]For they shall eat, and not have enough: they shall commit whoredom, and shall not increase: because they have left off to take heed to the Lord.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]Whoredom and wine and new wine take away the heart.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]My people ask counsel at their stocks, and their staff declareth unto them: for the spirit of whoredoms hath caused them to err, and they have gone a whoring from under their God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]They sacrifice upon the tops of the mountains, and burn incense upon the hills, under oaks and poplars and elms, because the shadow thereof is good: therefore your daughters shall commit whoredom, and your spouses shall commit adultery.


49) Hosea 7:5 - God reproves princes for drinking.

[SUP]5[/SUP]In the day of our king the princes have made him sick with bottles of wine; he stretched out his hand with scorners.)
Joel 1:5 - Drunkards awake to see God’s judgment. (drunkards)

 

[Deadtosin]

51) Joel 3:3 - The enemy is judged for selling girls for wine. (passage not about wine)

3 For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem,

[SUP]2 [/SUP]I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and parted my land.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And they have cast lots for my people; and have given a boy for an harlot, and sold a girl for wine, that they might drink.

52) Amos 2:8 - Unrighteous acts of Israel included the drinking of wine which had been taken for the payment of fines.
(WAY WORSE THAN THAT)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But I will send a fire upon Judah, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem.

[SUP]6 [/SUP]Thus saith the Lord; For three transgressions of Israel, and for four, I will not turn away the punishment thereof; because they sold the righteous for silver, and the poor for a pair of shoes;

[SUP]7 [/SUP]That pant after the dust of the earth on the head of the poor, and turn aside the way of the meek: and a man and his father will go in unto the same maid, to profane my holy name:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And they lay themselves down upon clothes laid to pledge by every altar, and they drink the wine of the condemned in the house of their god.


53) Amos 2:12 - Israel is condemned for forcing Nazarites to drink wine. (against the law for Nazarites to drink wine- Think John)
54) Micah 2:11 - Israelites are eager to follow false teachers who prophesy plenty of intoxicating drinks.
55) Nahum 1:10 - The drunkards of Nineveh will be destroyed by God. (drunkards)
56) Habakkuk 2:5 - A man is betrayed by wine.
57) Habakkuk 2:15 - Woe to him that gives his neighbor drink.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!58) (Drunken)

Habakkuk 2:16 - Drinking leads to shame. (again see prior verse, DRUNKEN)
59) Matthew 24:48-51 - A drinking servant is unprepared for his Lord’s return.

[SUP]48 [/SUP]But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

[SUP]49 [/SUP]And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; (Drunken)


60) Luke 1:15 - John the Baptist drank neither grape juice nor wine. (Nazarite)
61) Luke 12:45 - Christ warned against drunkenness. (Drunkenness)
62) Luke 21:34 - Drunkenness will cause a person not to be ready for the Lord’s return. (Drunkenness)
63) Romans 13:13 - Do not walk in drunkenness or immorality. ( Drunkenness)
64) Romans 14:21 - Do not do anything that will hurt your testimony as a believer.
65) 1 Corinthians 5:11 - If a Christian brother is a drinker, do not associate with him.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.66) 1 Corinthians 6:10 - Drunkards will not inherit the kingdom of God (DRUNKARD)

67) Galatians 5:21 - Acts of the sinful nature, such as drunkenness, will prohibit a person from inheriting the kingdom of God. (Drunkenness)
68) Ephesians 5:18 - In contrast to being drunk with wine, the believer is to be filled with the Spirit. (Drunk)
69) 1 Thessalonians 5:6-7 - Christians are to be alert and self-controlled, belonging to the day. Drunkards belong to the night and darkness. (Drunkards)
70) 1 Timothy 3:2-3 - Bishops (elders) are to be temperate, sober, and not near any wine.
71) 1 Timothy 3:8 - Deacons are to be worthy of respect and not drinkers.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;72) 1 Timothy 3:11 - Deacons’ wives are to be temperate and sober.
73) Titus 1:7-8 - An overseer is to be disciplined.
74) Titus 2:2-3 - The older men and older women of the church are to be temperate and not addicted to wine.

[SUP]3 [/SUP]The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine,

teachers of good things;75) 1 Peter 4:3-4 - The past life of drunkenness and carousing has no place in the Christian’s life.
(Drunkenness)

 

[PennEd]

You have things backwards, my friend; And the fact that you wouldn't preach such a thing (Which I would have no problem preaching on these things), tells me that you are ashamed for the belief that you do have.

Judas was not saved. He is called the son of perdition. Also, how can you repent of self murder?

Here is a brief but good aritlce:

Was Judas Iscariot forgiven / saved?

Also, Samson clearly did not commit suicide. Check out this thread here:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/97572-samson-did-not-commit-suicide.html



God did not command His people to have hate in their hearts like Cain so as to kill their good brothers selfishly or out of jeallousy. There is a difference between murder (or taking life selfishly) versus following orders in war so as to protect your nation and family from hostile invaders who seek to destroy you both physically and spiritually. One is done out of obedience and helps to eliminate evil (By God's timing) and the other is done for selfish reasons, whereby they are trying to be their own God. One is done out of love. Love for one's nation and family. The other is done out of hate or in the lust for killing.



If Jesus contributed to drunkenness it would have been a sin because the New Testament and the Old Testament condem these types of things as sins very clearly. You are simply choosing to ignore those warnings on alcohol in the Bible because you favor alcohol.



I am glad you believe in moral absolutes. Some here do not and I am afraid for them even more.

To say that I am ashamed of Jesus or the Gospel is a harsh, and if I was living in my former self I'd be angry, accusation by you.

Jude 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Are you saying you are comfortable judging other human beings, when the greatest created being (Michael) didn't judge Satan?


Also, you did not address the points I made about holding back the best wine. I think your fear should be focused on YOUR pride, and not your brothers and sisters in the Lord.

 

[Jason0047]

To say that I am ashamed of Jesus or the Gospel is a harsh, and if I was living in my former self I'd be angry, accusation by you.

What are we talking about?

Saul and Samson. We are not talking about the gospel. I am saying you are ashamed to preach on these two subjects. Not the gospel. For you said you would not preach on these subjects yourself.

Jude 1:9 But Michael the archangel, when he disputed with the devil and argued about the body of Moses, did not dare pronounce against him a railing judgment, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"

Are you saying you are comfortable judging other human beings, when the greatest created being (Michael) didn't judge Satan?

Also, you did not address the points I made about holding back the best wine. I think your fear should be focused on YOUR pride, and not your brothers and sisters in the Lord.

Jude 1:9 doesn't apply in your situation here. Jude 1:9 is talking about bringing a judgment against the devil and it is not talking about judging human beings. Jesus says we are to judge righteous Judgment. Paul says, know ye not that ye shall judge angels? 2 Timothy 3:16 says we can correct others by the Word of God. In fact, if you believe there is such a thing as right and wrong, then you are judging whether you say anything or not.

 

[SolidGround]

Then riddle me this:
I have a friend who firmly believes that eating pork is a sin, because she is Jewish by descent.
I mentioned the vision of the clean and unclean food, and how she no longer needs to place herself under that law.
She believes that that vision was for the Gentiles, their inclusion and their freedom, and does not apply to those born Jews.

In a situation like this, where conscience is involved,
are either of us right?

If so, then judge for us who is right.

You have already claimed your mantle as "judge over even angels",
so then use your position here.

 

[SolidGround]

By the way, the judging brought up in 1 Corinthians 6 is about civil disputes.

Rather than sorting things out amongst themselves, some in the Corinthian church had brought each other to court in lawsuit.

The disputes were not doctrinal or about "Christian morals", but about human legal matters.

The passage does not give you right to say that you have been given authority to hold yourself as judge over the lives of others,
but only when an issue is brought to you.

That right to judge is part of your future inheritance. Don't cheat yourself out of it by taking it early.

 

[Jason0047]

Then riddle me this:
I have a friend who firmly believes that eating pork is a sin, because she is Jewish by descent.
I mentioned the vision of the clean and unclean food, and how she no longer needs to place herself under that law.
She believes that that vision was for the Gentiles, their inclusion and their freedom, and does not apply to those born Jews.

In a situation like this, where conscience is involved,
are either of us right?

If so, then judge for us who is right.

I would still love her as a sister in Christ and strive to show those Scriptures that show how the Old Covenant has passed away and the New Covenant is what believers abide by today. For no man mixes new wine into old wine skins. It's why Jesus had the water in the Jewish ceremonial washing containers turned into wine. The wine represented his blood and the Jew could no longer go back to the old ways of washing themselves because it has been replaced by His blood. Also, Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 9 are great chapters for letting us know that there are only two Testaments and or two Covenants and the New Testament is now the current Covenant that is in effect for believers.

As for who is right? Well, she can obey certain things within the Old Law like the Saturday Sabbath, certain holy days, not eat unclean animals, etc. but these are just shadows that points to Christ. They are no longer binding or a requirement because the Law has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ with His death upon the cross. For Christ nailed to the cross those ordinaces that were against us. The New Testament is focused on the Law of love. Love God and love your neighbor (which fulfills the Law).

Technically, she is in the wrong for believing a certain Law in the OT is still binding (When it is not), but it may not be a salvation issue in this case because she may not think it is a requirement for salvation for all believers. If she is teaching that you must not eat pork or you are not saved, then that would be wrong. It would be like when the Judiazers were trying to convince the Galatians that circumcision was a necessary requirement for one to be saved. But Paul addresses this problem in the book of Galatians.

If she doesn't believe it is a salvation issue and you have fellowship with her, then don't eat pork around her.

You have already claimed your mantle as "judge over even angels",
so then use your position here.

The saints judging angels is something that is still yet future. We are not to speak evil of dignitaries (2 Peter 2:10).

 

[ELECT]

I would still love her as a sister in Christ and strive to show those Scriptures that show how the Old Covenant has passed away and the New Covenant is what believers abide by today. For no man mixes new wine into old wine skins. It's why Jesus had the water in the Jewish ceremonial washing containers turned into wine. The wine represented his blood and the Jew could no longer go back to the old ways of washing themselves because it has been replaced by His blood. Also, Hebrews 8 and Hebrews 9 are great chapters for letting us know that there are only two Testaments and or two Covenants and the New Testament is now the current Covenant that is in effect for believers.

As for who is right? Well, she can obey certain things within the Old Law like the Saturday Sabbath, certain holy days, not eat unclean animals, etc. but these are just shadows that points to Christ. They are no longer binding or a requirement because the Law has been fulfilled in Jesus Christ with His death upon the cross. For Christ nailed to the cross those ordinaces that were against us. The New Testament is focused on the Law of love. Love God and love your neighbor (which fulfills the Law).

Technically, she is in the wrong for believing a certain Law in the OT is still binding (When it is not), but it may not be a salvation issue in this case because she may not think it is a requirement for salvation for all believers. If she is teaching that you must not eat pork or you are not saved, then that would be wrong. It would be like when the Judiazers were trying to convince the Galatians that circumcision was a necessary requirement for one to be saved. But Paul addresses this problem in the book of Galatians.

If she doesn't believe it is a salvation issue and you have fellowship with her, then don't eat pork around her.



The saints judging angels is something that is still yet future. We are not to speak evil of dignitaries (2 Peter 2:10).

When was the law of unclean first given ? thanks

 

[Jason0047]

By the way, the judging brought up in 1 Corinthians 6 is about civil disputes.

Rather than sorting things out amongst themselves, some in the Corinthian church had brought each other to court in lawsuit.

The disputes were not doctrinal or about "Christian morals", but about human legal matters.

First, Jesus says we can judge righteous Judgment. Judge not lest ye be judged is not saying you should not judge. It is not wrong to reconginze when somebody is doing evil or when they are ignoring God's Word. It is saying if you do not want to be judged for certain things, then make sure you are not judging others in doing the same thing. For our judgments will be measured back to us. Meaning, we cannot judge hypocritcally.

Second, 1 Corinthians 6 in taking your brother to court is not just a legal matter but it is a moral issue. Taking your brother to court is not loving then just forgiving them and or resolving the matter personally. In fact, Paul says, "ye do wrong" in verse 8 (1 Corinthians 6:8).

The passage does not give you right to say that you have been given authority to hold yourself as judge over the lives of others,
but only when an issue is brought to you.

That right to judge is part of your future inheritance. Don't cheat yourself out of it by taking it early.

2 Timothy 3:16 says we can correct others by the Word of God. See that is what a person does every time they preach the gospel to an open crowd of sinners. A believer is in fact judging those people, but they are set out to correct their lives by leading them to Jesus Christ, knowing His love, and in abiding in His good ways.

 

[Jason0047]

First, Jesus says we can judge righteous Judgment. Judge not lest ye be judged is not saying you should not judge. It is not wrong to reconginze when somebody is doing evil or when they are ignoring God's Word. It is saying if you do not want to be judged for certain things, then make sure you are not judging others in doing the same thing. For our judgments will be measured back to us. Meaning, we cannot judge hypocritcally.

Second, 1 Corinthians 6 in taking your brother to court is not just a legal matter but it is a moral issue. Taking your brother to court is not loving then just forgiving them and or resolving the matter personally. In fact, Paul says, "ye do wrong" in verse 8 (1 Corinthians 6:8).

2 Timothy 3:16 says we can correct others by the Word of God. See that is what a person does every time they preach the gospel to an open crowd of sinners. A believer is in fact judging those people, but they are set out to correct their lives by leading them to Jesus Christ, knowing His love, and in abiding in His good ways.

I wanted to add two more things to this.

First, Jesus said all the Law and the Prophets all hangs upon the two greatest commandments which is based on love. Love is foundational to being a Christian. For it is one of the major fruits of the Spirit. In fact, if we hate our brother it is equivalent to murder, and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.

Second, technically the word "correction" in 2 Timothy 3:16 is in dealing specifically with correcting the brethren and not unbelievers. My point is that a believer can correct unbeliever's lives by leading them to Jesus.

 

[Jason0047]

When was the law of unclean first given ? thanks

I believe the Law existed in oral form before the giving of the Law of Moses. However, people were condemned by the sin of Adam's transgression before the Law was written down or codified. So if you are talking about the Oral Law: It is unknown. For in Genesis chapter 7 Noah was commanded to take 7 of the clean animals and 2 of the unclean animals.

As for the first mention of unclean animals in the written Law: I could be wrong, but I do believe it is Leviticus 11.

However, when this command was given is not important. Moses was given a command to build an Ark, but this command does not apply to us today. It was only for Noah. And the fact that God told Peter to eat all of those delicious looking unclean animals in the vision lets us know that we all now have a liberty in Christ that did not exist before the cross.

 

[ELECT]

I believe the Law existed in oral form before the giving of the Law of Moses. However, people were condemned by the sin of Adam's transgression before the Law was written down or codified. So if you are talking about the Oral Law: It is unknown. For in Genesis chapter 7 Noah was commanded to take 7 of the clean animals and 2 of the unclean animals.

As for the first mention of unclean animals in the written Law: I could be wrong, but I do believe it is Leviticus 11.

However, when this command was given is not important. Moses was given a command to build an Ark, but this command does not apply to us today. It was only for Noah. And the fact that God told Peter to eat all of those delicious looking unclean animals in the vision lets us know that we all now have a liberty in Christ that did not exist before the cross.

Is it right for christians to eat blood why or why not ?

 

[ELECT]

I wanted to add two more things to this.

First, Jesus said all the Law and the Prophets all hangs upon the two greatest commandments which is based on love. Love is foundational to being a Christian. For it is one of the major fruits of the Spirit. In fact, if we hate our brother it is equivalent to murder, and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.

Second, technically the word "correction" in 2 Timothy 3:16 is in dealing specifically with correcting the brethren and not unbelievers. My point is that a believer can correct unbeliever's lives by leading them to Jesus.

Can an unbeliever correct a believer life also ?

 

[Jason0047]

Can an unbeliever correct a believer life also ?

It depends on the circumstance. So this could be either a "yes" or a "no." It would be a "yes" because I believe it possible that God can use unbelievers teach us we are wrong so that we can confess or repent of something that is not right in our lives. This would be a "No" because we are not to take our brothers to court like in 1 Corinthians 6, and we are not to have fellowship with unbelievers (or seek out their advice on spiritual matters because they are not spiritual - They are of the world system that is controlled by the wicked one).

 

[Jason0047]

It depends on the circumstance. So this could be either a "yes" or a "no." It would be a "yes" because I believe it possible that God can use unbelievers teach us we are wrong so that we can confess or repent of something that is not right in our lives. This would be a "No" because we are not to take our brothers to court like in 1 Corinthians 6, and we are not to have fellowship with unbelievers (or seek out their advice on spiritual matters because they are not spiritual - They are of the world system that is controlled by the wicked one).

But correction is an outside or external force. All true correction ultimately comes from God whether God uses an unbeliever or a believer to correct you to repent. So when you are corrected by an unbeliever it is actually God correcting you ultimately because it was God that chose that circumstance. It was not YOU CHOOSING it. See, moral laws is when you CHOOSE to obey or not obey. Therein lies the difference. And moral laws do not change.

 

[Jason0047]

Is it right for christians to eat blood why or why not ?

Well, with our experience in livng within our modern day world: You shouldn't even need the Word of God in this case. This is just common sense of what is normal today. If you eat a steak and it has a little blood in it, you are simply consuming a residual small amount and is a part of your meal. If you drink glasses of blood, then there is a problem at home and one is not normal.

 

[ELECT]

Well, with our experience in livng within our modern day world: You shouldn't even need the Word of God in this case. This is just common sense of what is normal today. If you eat a steak and it has a little blood in it, you are simply consuming a residual small amount and is a part of your meal. If you drink glasses of blood, then there is a problem at home and one is not normal.

Could it defile a man according to the bible ?

 

[Jason0047]

We are told to abstain from blood and meat sacrificed to idols in several places within Acts. Yet, in Romans 14, Paul says, "there is nothing unclean of itself." In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul says,

"Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."

Yes, we have a liberty in Christ, but do not let your good be evil spoken of if you eat out in the open or in public where your brother could see you and stumble. So while I do acknowledge that I could drink blood in my liberty in Christ, the question I have to ask myself, is why? Why do it? Is the Kingdom of God meat and drink? Why would I do it if Acts tells me to abstain from blood and things strangled from idols? Could I feed my family with these things if that is all I had? Yes, most definitely. Would I judge another Christian for eating blood soup? If they did it privately at home and asked me if it was okay, I would not have a problem with it. But for me, there is no purpose in drinking or eating blood. Is it really that healthy and good for me? Is not my body the Temple? Anyways, this has nothing to do with God's eternal moral laws. Drinking blood in the OT was not an eternal moral law. It was a part of the Old Covenant, which was mentioned in Genesis 9. But make no mistake, though; There are other unchanging moral laws, though.

 

[Jason0047]

We are told to abstain from blood and meat sacrificed to idols in several places within Acts. Yet, in Romans 14, Paul says, "there is nothing unclean of itself." In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul says,

"Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak."

Yes, we have a liberty in Christ, but do not let your good be evil spoken of if you eat out in the open or in public where your brother could see you and stumble. So while I do acknowledge that I could drink blood in my liberty in Christ, the question I have to ask myself, is why? Why do it? Is the Kingdom of God meat and drink? Why would I do it if Acts tells me to abstain from blood and things strangled from idols? Could I feed my family with these things if that is all I had? Yes, most definitely. Would I judge another Christian for eating blood soup? If they did it privately at home and asked me if it was okay, I would not have a problem with it. But for me, there is no purpose in drinking or eating blood. Is it really that healthy and good for me? Is not my body the Temple? Anyways, this has nothing to do with God's eternal moral laws. Drinking blood in the OT was not an eternal moral law. It was a part of the Old Covenant, which was mentioned in Genesis 9. But make no mistake, though; There are other unchanging moral laws, though.

Today, even unbelievers can see your drinking of blood as evil because many of them associate drinking blood with vampirism or those who do drink blood as a part of an evil and dark cult. The point is not that you can't drink blood in your liberty in Christ. The question is why? Why give others the impression that you are evil? For does not the Bible say to avoid all appearances of evil? Why did the apostles in Acts say to abstain from it? I will tell you why. To be separate and holy.

Now, lets say my soon to be wife and I are in a deserted waste land somewhere and we couldn't find any food for days. Let's say we spot a dead cultist who just recently died and he had meat on his plate that was clearly sacrificed to idols. Should me and my future to be wife die by not eating it? No, I realize that there is nothing that can truly defile me. And I would have a good reason to eat it, too. Survival. However, I do not think my liberty extends for me in going out and look for their nearest cult group that sacrifices meat to idols in secret just so that I can grap a bite to eat. Why would I associate with them if they are practicing evil at their little cult meetings? It doesn't make any sense. For what fellowship does Light have with darkness.

 

[Jeff_56]

...I have a friend who firmly believes that eating pork is a sin, because she is Jewish by descent.
I mentioned the vision of the clean and unclean food, and how she no longer needs to place herself under that law.
She believes that that vision was for the Gentiles, their inclusion and their freedom, and does not apply to those born Jews.
In a situation like this, where conscience is involved,
are either of us right?
If so, then judge for us who is right..

neither of you is right. (according to YAHWEH'S WORD). it is not for any man to change YAHWEH'S WORD, or 'judge' as if by conscience - when it has nothing to do with conscience; that is a direct lie.(that conscience is involved in deciding what's right about YAHWEH'S WORD) ). also that is a serious, perhaps life and death, mistake(sin)(error).