Does this verse still hold true

[john832]

Let me ask you. will these laws prevent your neighbor from killing you?

or would you rather your neighbor love you unconditionally (the way Jesus wants us to love) and thus have the thought of killing you never cross his mind?

The law of adultry sure did not help king david did it? or the law which said thou shalt not murder.. And he was an avid follower of the law, and said to be the one after Gods own heart.

So much for the law helping him, It did not help him, because it can;t it was never intended to do that

The Law defines sin. To do away with the Law does away with sin. That is not how God deals with the problem. It is a sin to break the Law, what Christ's sacrifice does is pay the price for sin, it does not eradicate the Law.

If one steals something, then goes to God for forgiveness by the sacrifice of Christ, are they forgiven?

Yes. Now let me ask, is the Law against theft still in force? Is it still sin to steal. If the same person steals again, does he still have to seek forgiveness from God or does God say "Oh, that's OK, I did away with that old Law that defined stealing."

So, let me ask, does grace do away with the definition of sin? Or does it allow us to be forgiven for sin?

 

[john832]

Why try to remember a list of rules instead if how God said they are all fulfilled in one word. Love . I want to keep Gods law not break it! And looking to the law only produces the opposite results

Yeah, it is real bondage to remember the Ten Commandments.

Psa 119:109 My soul is continually in my hand: yet do I not forget thy law.

Psa 119:61 The bands of the wicked have robbed me: but I have not forgotten thy law.

Mal 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
Mal 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Notice the time frame of the above? The end time before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the Lord.

So what happens to those who forget God's Law?

Hos 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

 

[john832]

Yes. Exactly, my brother. Folks can read all about this in Romans 13:8-10.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
Rom 13:9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Yes they can, they can see that the great Law of Love composed of two Great Commandments, Love God and Love your neighbor, is composed of the Ten Commandments.

How does this do away with the Ten Commandments?

 

[john832]

Can't deal with long post I'm on my phone...but Paul makes clear that the flesh is stirred to sin by the law and the strength of sin is the law...no man can be under law and free from sins power ; only grace and the Spirit if God can do that.

No, Paul does not make that clear at all...

Paul makes clear that the CARNAL mind is the problem...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

He says that his desire is to obey the Law of God, that his intent is obedience to the Law of God and that the LAW OF SIN is what drives him to break God's Law...

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

People are so fond of talking about the flesh being the problem, well yeaah, Paul makes it plain that what is contained in the flesh is the problem.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What does Paul say about the Law?

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


Instead of throwing out falsehoods, how about accurately quoting scripture.

 

[Mitspa]

And this is His commandments ; To believe in His Son and love as He commanded. " nothing profits but faith working by love"

 

[john832]

Why try to remember a list of rules instead if how God said they are all fulfilled in one word. Love . I want to keep Gods law not break it! And looking to the law only produces the opposite results

Again, another twisting of scripture...

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Paul says the Law is holy and just and good. You say it is bad. Hmmm, I gotta go with Paul on this one.

By the way, how about explaining to us what is wrong with obeying the Ten Commandments?

 

[john832]

And this is His commandments ; To believe in His Son and love as He commanded. " nothing profits but faith working by love"

And again, no scripture, just your ideas...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

I gotta go with John on this one.

 

[Mitspa]

No, Paul does not make that clear at all...

Paul makes clear that the CARNAL mind is the problem...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

He says that his desire is to obey the Law of God, that his intent is obedience to the Law of God and that the LAW OF SIN is what drives him to break God's Law...

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

People are so fond of talking about the flesh being the problem, well yeaah, Paul makes it plain that what is contained in the flesh is the problem.

Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What does Paul say about the Law?

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.


Instead of throwing out falsehoods, how about accurately quoting scripture.

"The strength of sin is the law". The commandment produced in me all manner of evil desires for apart from the law sin is dead.

 

[john832]

And this is His commandments ; To believe in His Son and love as He commanded. " nothing profits but faith working by love"

Funny, but Christ Himself, answered this...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And the rich young ruler asked...

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which?

Christ didn't stutter when He answered...

Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The Ten Commandments.

 

[Mitspa]

for sin shall not have dominion over you BECAUSE you are not under law but under grace.

 

[john832]

"The strength of sin is the law". The commandment produced in me all manner of evil desires for apart from the law sin is dead.

The Law is not sin. The strength of sin is the Law. If you break the Law, you are under the death penalty (the curse of the Law). Jesus Christ paid that penalty...

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

He took that curse for us. Why do you want to teach something that is an affront to the Sacrifice of Christ? He paid a terrible penalty so that we may have forgiveness of sin.

If Christ did away with the Law, then no one needs Him, they don't need a sacrifice for sin, there is no sin.

 

[john832]

for sin shall not have dominion over you BECAUSE you are not under law but under grace.

We just dealt with what it means to be under the Law...

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 

[john832]

So let me ask, is adultery wrong?

 

[Mitspa]

Funny, but Christ Himself, answered this...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And the rich young ruler asked...

Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which?

Christ didn't stutter when He answered...

Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
Mat 19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

The Ten Commandments.

Yep now we have the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and can keep them all with one word...love

 

[john832]

Yep now we have the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and can keep them all with one word...love

Again, is adultery wrong?

 

[Mitspa]

So let me ask, is adultery wrong?

let me ask you. Would love commit such a thing? But under law sin is stirred up in us

 

[john832]

Yep now we have the love of God in our hearts by the Holy Spirit and can keep them all with one word...love

So Paul didn't have the love of God?

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Paul still fought with his nature, he still made mistakes and still sinned.

 

[john832]

let me ask you. Would love commit such a thing? But under law sin is stirred up in us

Well, if there is no Law against it, why would it matter? It is not sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now we've seen here the Bible definition for sin, what is your definition? It must be different because you say the Law is done away. How do you define sin?

 

[Mitspa]

Well, if there is no Law against it, why would it matter? It is not sin...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now we've seen here the Bible definition for sin, what is your definition? It must be different because you say the Law is done away. How do you define sin?

I say what the Bible and the gospel teaches that sin is in all flesh and the law was to show us this truth so we would turn to Christ and His Commandment to love. Which is the only way to keep what the law demanded. Its called the simplicity of Christ.

 

[Mitspa]

The reason so many believers are under sins power is because they have been placed under the law.