Done Away?

[ChristIsGod]

I thought it was every word that proceeded out of the mouth of The Word of God made flesh and written and His Spirit of Truth.

Word & Spirit = Truth .... yes?

He said - if you keep My Word and walk in the Spirit, Romans 8 style.... like the verses in this post http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/105680-done-away-8.html#post1846106

I can't deny that those verses are His Words. Who would?

 

[jaybird88]

this is one of those topics that never makes sense to me.
New International Version
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

i believe He is referring to the law and the profits, not just the law.

not abolished but fulfilled. i think this gets lots of folks mixed up. the fulfillment is concerning the prophesy about him. the prophesy has been fulfilled.

two different times he says he didnt come to abolish them, then he says "For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished"
its very clear to me that we are still to do our best to obey the law. that doesnt mean we cant accept Jesus as the son of our Lord.
the law was not divine inspiration, it was dictated by the Almighty Himself to Moses. and the same goes for the profits. these books are the divine word of our Lord, just the same as He wrote them Himself, they are the bible of Jesus. I myself would never "do away" with them like they were useless trash.
just my thoughts on it

 

[JGIG]

13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law. (from Rom. 5)​

There was no law to identify sin before Sinai, yet sin was in the world according the Scriptures.

People sin under Grace; people sin under Law.

In Christ, under Grace, there is redemption.

Under Law, after the Cross, ONLY condemnation.

Our choice.

-JGIG

That is incorrect. The scripture says that there cannot be sin without Law.

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

There is no sin without Law and yet we read...

Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

so Adam transgressed. According to Rom 4:15, if there is no Law, there is no transgression.

Not sure what your beef is here - you pretty much are fighting against your own position here using the same Scriptures I did.

You have scripture for this?

Yes, you quoted it above.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

SO then it is evil to read "do not kill" and think man, I should not kill?

and is the veil believing do not kill is a good thing, or is the veil something else?

The same guy the wrote Corinthians wrote this:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

And the Law of God after the Cross is simply this: To believe on the One He has sent and to love one another (from 1 Jn. 3).

You err in that you define God's Law exclusively as the laws given to Moses at Sinai.

It's really much simpler than that - Love, the Fruit of the Spirit.

If one is loving others, they aren't murdering them, are they?

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

The carnal mind is enmity against God. Why?

Isaiah 55:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That's the veil.

What was the way they call heresy? It was the way of Christ. You don't worship God by working at the Law. You worship God in Spirit and Truth.

Which of the Fruit of the Spirit would cause you to break any Law? Which of the Fruit of the Spirit go against any Law or Prophets?

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Grandpa again."

 

[JGIG]

If one accepts the blood of the Messiah they have Sacrificed.

Scripture, please.

 

[JGIG]

Yes the carnal mind is enmity to God, because it is of a person who believes they are saved yet can continue to sin without repenting of it or confess their future ones for forgiveness. They believe the law has no power over them by being in Christ, therefore they can continue to sin and it will not be imputed on them.
They fail to see the scriptures that say you need to first repent, and then on future sins you have to confess them before the Lord's precious blood covers them. Giving them remission of those sins, as this is one showing of what the bible calls a disobedient son. Instead of obeying God, they believe they can keep doing what they want The bible says those who are disobedient will be placed in the lake of fire as well.

You're trying to apply Old Covenant practice with New Covenant Reality.

Your sins have been dealt with.

It is finished.

Jesus sits in the heavenly Tabernacle, His Work complete.

He's not coming to do the work of the Cross again to 'cover' anyone's sins; those who receive His forgiveness have had their sins removed, cleansed, cast as far as the East is from the West.

You are either a forgiven person or you are not.

One does not vacillate between the two; that is error that the letter to the Hebrews addresses.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

You have heard = oral law of the pharisees

It is written = Law of Yahweh

Mattithyah 5:43-44, "You have heard that it has been said: You will love your brother--but hate your enemies; But I say to you; Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do well to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."

Most people think Yahshua is rebuking "OT", not at all, nowhere in Yahweh's words is this hate taught. This hate comes from the Talmud of the pharisees. Yahweh's words says:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

You have heard it said actually = the teaching of Torah in the Temple/synagogues. Mixed with oral law? Likely, but your argument fails here:

"But I say unto you . . . " = oral instruction from Christ. Torah Law does not deal at all with heart intent, merely with outward behavior.

The quote from Leviticus speaks of strangers living with Israel - Jesus tells us to love our enemies - those would be the ones OUTSIDE the camp in Levitical terms.

-JGIG

 

[Hizikyah]

And the Law of God after the Cross is simply this: To believe on the One He has sent and to love one another (from 1 Jn. 3).

You err in that you define God's Law exclusively as the laws given to Moses at Sinai.

It's really much simpler than that - Love, the Fruit of the Spirit.

If one is loving others, they aren't murdering them, are they?

-JGIG

Over simplification. To the point that it would allow anomia to those that wanted it....

SO you said this is all; "And the Law of God after the Cross is simply this: To believe on the One He has sent and to love one another (from 1 Jn. 3)."

Lets look:

"To believe on the One He has sent"

Ok im with that, but how do we do this, because just believe is pretty vague? I mean the demons believe He exist....

How about we stop debating about how I think you need to submit to every Law and you think every Law must be rejected and let Him tell us?

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Ohh wow, so according to the Messiah Himself we must follow His words.... I wonder in His religion if there is difference between believing and doing? Nope. The word shamah means to hear and obey....

and I can match His words in John by the words of Moses;

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

So go what ever direction you choose, but I think it's pretty clear that this "believe" thingy means belief does obey. You may/can IDK preach a belief that doesent also obey, the Spirit of YHWH has told me that "belief" (without obedience) gets fire. (and wanted me to share that here this morning)

So that would leave, " to love one another"

So we should find out what love is.

Im sure we can find many different definitions of what "love" is, since you say there is no law there would be no set standard of what love is, so maybe I should go ask around? Im sure there are many homosexuals, prostitutes and promiscuous people spread lots of "love" around, they want to make sure their partner has great joy...whats more loving than that right? Or maybe "muslims" have some love to spread around? Or scientologists, some of them are nice people, and they have love for days!

Ohh but wait, those are all man's ideas of what love are......How can we be so lost? Told to love... but what is love?????

You think the Almighty would lets us know what love is..... maybe in a scroll or a book, you know of any book like that? Ohh wait, I think I know of a book like that...lets see what it says:

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Well would you look at that you silly goose.... Who woulda thunk it? So if I obey the Commandments im loving according to Scripture, seems all you that preach differently are working for the enemy, no it doesn't seem that way, if in practice it is happening, then it is, in reality, happening.

According to the New Testament the COMMANDMENTS ARE LOVING! WOW! WOWOWZY! WOWOWOWZERSRSRS! What a radical idea! Bur wait if you follow what the Messiah says your justified by works right? SO we better do the exact opposite of everything He says right? Dont want to be justified by works right? Oh who has bewitched you.... So lets see if there are some other Scriptures that say this, because we dont want to error....

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous." (entole; Law, Commandment, etc) (fact)

I wonder if there is a verse that connects no Law with no love?

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Will you looksey doodle do at that? No law no love..... seems your all preaching lies.

Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."

Love in practice, not in jaw flappin:

Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness. Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am Yahweh. You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am Yahweh. If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure. I am Yahweh your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am Yahweh."

Ohh and btw, "Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Heaven and earth did not yet pass.

But just like in the garden the snake comes along and says, "you dont have to follow that, you can ignore those instructions and still have life."

and they follow the serpent.

Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

When will heaven and earth pass?

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

The Spirit of Yahweh calls men everywhere to repent.

 

[Hizikyah]

If one accepts the blood of the Messiah they have Sacrificed.

Scripture, please.

Almost nothing I would enjoy more:

1 Corinthians 5:7
Get rid of the old "yeast" by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 9:12
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.


John 6:50-71
This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.


Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 5:7-10
In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Hebrews 2:14
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Isayah 53, "Who has believed our report? To whom is the arm of Yahweh revealed? For He will grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground. He has no form nor comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by Yahweh, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on Him the iniquity o us all. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment, and who will declare His generation? For He was cut of from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; but He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. Yet His bruises; willful sacrifice, pleased Yahweh; for He was put to much grief. Now He has brought the offering for sin. He will see His seed, He will prolong days, and the pleasure of Yahweh will succeed in His hands. He will see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied; by His knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many, for He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will divide Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the plunder with the strong; because He poured out His soul to death, and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."

 

[Hizikyah]

You have heard it said actually = the teaching of Torah in the Temple/synagogues. Mixed with oral law? Likely, but your argument fails here:

"But I say unto you . . . " = oral instruction from Christ. Torah Law does not deal at all with heart intent, merely with outward behavior.

The quote from Leviticus speaks of strangers living with Israel - Jesus tells us to love our enemies - those would be the ones OUTSIDE the camp in Levitical terms.

-JGIG

I think you misunderstood me here, the "oral law" is the official title given to pharisee law, by the pharisees, THEY say, not Yah says, they say that THEIR "oral law" is higher than the written Law. (it is basically their way of reasoning excuses in their minds and in conversation with each other and the end point is total rejection of Yahweh;s Laws.)


Mark7:
7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men!

9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!

 

[Hizikyah]

Who's your daddy?

1 Corinthians 4:15-16, "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father (3962. patér) in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."

Matthew 23:9, "And call no man your father (3962. patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[JGIG]

Re: Done Away?

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

If one accepts the blood of the Messiah they have Sacrificed.

Originally Posted by JGIG

Scripture, please.

Almost nothing I would enjoy more:

1 Corinthians 5:7
Get rid of the old "yeast" by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.

1 John 2:2
He is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Hebrews 9:12
He entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.


John 6:50-71
This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. And the bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.” The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you. Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.


Acts 2:38
And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Hebrews 5:7-10
In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverence. Although he was a son, he learned obedience through what he suffered. And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him, being designated by God a high priest after the order of Melchizedek.

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.

Hebrews 2:14
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil,

Isayah 53, "Who has believed our report? To whom is the arm of Yahweh revealed? For He will grow up before Him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground. He has no form nor comeliness; and when we see Him, there is no beauty that we should desire Him. He is despised and rejected by men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And we hid, as it were, our faces from Him; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows; yet we esteemed Him stricken, smitten by Yahweh, and afflicted. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yahweh has laid on Him the iniquity o us all. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth. He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not His mouth. He was taken from prison and from judgment, and who will declare His generation? For He was cut of from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken. And He made His grave with the wicked, and with the rich in His death; but He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth. Yet His bruises; willful sacrifice, pleased Yahweh; for He was put to much grief. Now He has brought the offering for sin. He will see His seed, He will prolong days, and the pleasure of Yahweh will succeed in His hands. He will see the labor of His soul, and be satisfied; by His knowledge My righteous Servant will justify many, for He will bear their iniquities. Therefore, I will divide Him a portion with the great, and He will divide the plunder with the strong; because He poured out His soul to death, and He was numbered with the transgressors; and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."​

None of those Scriptures supports your assertion that we 'have sacrificed' by receiving the Blood of Christ.

We don't have anything to do in the New Covenant but to enter into what CHRIST has already DONE. It is finished.

-JGIG





​

 

[Hizikyah]

Yes the Sacrifice is complete all we need to do is accept it to be cleaned..... but I guess Scripture doesn't mean what it says huh?

1 Corinthians 5:7
Get rid of the old "yeast" by removing this wicked person from among you. Then you will be like a fresh batch of dough made without yeast, which is what you really are. Christ, our Passover Lamb, has been sacrificed for us.

 

[JGIG]

And the Law of God after the Cross is simply this: To believe on the One He has sent and to love one another (from 1 Jn. 3).

You err in that you define God's Law exclusively as the laws given to Moses at Sinai.

It's really much simpler than that - Love, the Fruit of the Spirit.

If one is loving others, they aren't murdering them, are they?

-JGIG

Over simplification. To the point that it would allow anomia to those that wanted it....

SO you said this is all; "And the Law of God after the Cross is simply this: To believe on the One He has sent and to love one another (from 1 Jn. 3)."

Lets look:

"To believe on the One He has sent"

Ok im with that, but how do we do this, because just believe is pretty vague? I mean the demons believe He exist....

How about we stop debating about how I think you need to submit to every Law and you think every Law must be rejected and let Him tell us?

John 5:24, "Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word, and believes him who sent me, has eternal life, and doesn't come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

Ohh wow, so according to the Messiah Himself we must follow His words.... I wonder in His religion if there is difference between believing and doing? Nope. The word shamah means to hear and obey....

and I can match His words in John by the words of Moses;

Deuteronomy 18:18-19, "I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brothers, and I will put My words in His mouth, and He will tell them everything I command Him. Whoever will not listen to My words, which He speaks in My Name, I will judge him for it"

"listen" is word #8085 שָׁמַע shama` {shaw-mah'}

Brown-Driver-Briggs (Old Testament Hebrew-English Lexicon)
A primitive root; to hear intelligently (often with implication of attention, obedience, etc.; causatively to tell, etc.)

Hebrew Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar) - 1) to hear, listen to, obey

So go what ever direction you choose, but I think it's pretty clear that this "believe" thingy means belief does obey. You may/can IDK preach a belief that doesent also obey, the Spirit of YHWH has told me that "belief" (without obedience) gets fire. (and wanted me to share that here this morning)

So that would leave, " to love one another"

So we should find out what love is.

Im sure we can find many different definitions of what "love" is, since you say there is no law there would be no set standard of what love is, so maybe I should go ask around? Im sure there are many homosexuals, prostitutes and promiscuous people spread lots of "love" around, they want to make sure their partner has great joy...whats more loving than that right? Or maybe "muslims" have some love to spread around? Or scientologists, some of them are nice people, and they have love for days!

Ohh but wait, those are all man's ideas of what love are......How can we be so lost? Told to love... but what is love?????

You think the Almighty would lets us know what love is..... maybe in a scroll or a book, you know of any book like that? Ohh wait, I think I know of a book like that...lets see what it says:

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Well would you look at that you silly goose.... Who woulda thunk it? So if I obey the Commandments im loving according to Scripture, seems all you that preach differently are working for the enemy, no it doesn't seem that way, if in practice it is happening, then it is, in reality, happening.

According to the New Testament the COMMANDMENTS ARE LOVING! WOW! WOWOWZY! WOWOWOWZERSRSRS! What a radical idea! Bur wait if you follow what the Messiah says your justified by works right? SO we better do the exact opposite of everything He says right? Dont want to be justified by works right? Oh who has bewitched you.... So lets see if there are some other Scriptures that say this, because we dont want to error....

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul. By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you this day, so that you may be blessed?"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws. For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous." (entole; Law, Commandment, etc) (fact)

I wonder if there is a verse that connects no Law with no love?

Mattithyah 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."

"iniquity" is:#0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459

Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)
1) the condition of without law
1a) because ignorant of it
1b) because of violating it
2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness

Will you looksey doodle do at that? No law no love..... seems your all preaching lies.

Deuteronomy 10:16, "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and do not be stiff-necked any longer."

Love in practice, not in jaw flappin:

Leviticus 19:9-18,29-31 "When you reap the harvest of your land, you shall not completely harvest the corners of your field, nor shall you gather the gleanings of your harvest. You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh.Do not prostitute your daughter, to cause her to be a harlot; or the land will fall into harlotry, and the land will become full of wickedness. Do not turn to mediums nor familiar spirits. Do not seek after them, to be defiled by them. I am Yahweh. You shall stand up before the gray headed, and you shall honor the presence of an Elder or Teacher; thereby giving reverence to your Heavenly Father. I am Yahweh. If a stranger lives with you in your and, do not mistreat him. The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh. Do not use dishonest standards when measuring length, weight, or quantity. You shall have honest balances, honest weights, an honest ephah; a dry measure, and an honest in; a liquid measure. I am Yahweh your Father Who brought you out of the land of Egypt; Therefore, you must observe all My statutes and My judgments, and perform and do them. I am Yahweh."

Ohh and btw, "Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law"

Heaven and earth did not yet pass.

But just like in the garden the snake comes along and says, "you dont have to follow that, you can ignore those instructions and still have life."

and they follow the serpent.

Matt 5:17-18, "Do not even think that I have come to destroy the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to destroy them, but to fulfill them. For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

When will heaven and earth pass?

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

The Spirit of Yahweh calls men everywhere to repent.

. . . And you continue to ignore the dividing line between the Old and the New Covenants - that line being the Cross. On this side of the Cross, it's no longer about what you do to stay in covenant with God, but about what Christ did on our behalf to secure a forever, superior covenant with God into which we enter because of what Jesus DID.

You continue to do three things:

• Define the Law of God as the laws given to Moses at Sinai, ignoring that instructions existed before and exist after that set of laws.
• Ignore the Cross. You mention the Blood, but don't deal with what it accomplished.
• Ignore the Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood of Christ. He's of the Tribe of Judah, not Levi. The Old Covenant is obsolete because of the Work of Christ; the Old Covenant is obsolete as is its priesthood, which has been replaced by an oath from God, never to be revoked, because of the indestructible life of Christ.

Until you come to terms with those things, and begin to look at Scripture through the lens of the Cross and the Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood of Christ, and recognize that it's about His Fruit in our lives and not the performance of Law, you will continue to err.

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

I think you misunderstood me here, the "oral law" is the official title given to pharisee law, by the pharisees, THEY say, not Yah says, they say that THEIR "oral law" is higher than the written Law. (it is basically their way of reasoning excuses in their minds and in conversation with each other and the end point is total rejection of Yahweh;s Laws.)


Mark7:
7 But in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.

8 For laying aside the Law of Yahweh, you hold the tradition of men!

9 Then He said to them: How well you reject the Law of Yahweh, so that you may keep your own tradition!

I know what oral law is, Hizikyah.

It was the Pharisees way of making the Law seem keepable.

Just like you and others pick and choose and spiritualize away the Law as it was written to make it seem keepable.

Like the Pharisees, you are cheapening the Law as God gave it.

Then you claim to uphold the Law as Paul states in Romans 3:31, when in reality it is those who preach Grace who uphold the Law and use it properly (1 Tim. 1).

-JGIG

 

[JGIG]

Who's your daddy?

1 Corinthians 4:15-16, "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father (3962. patér) in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."

Matthew 23:9, "And call no man your father (3962. patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

Again, you're defining the law as the Sinaitic code.

Jesus doesn't do that.

God doesn't do that after the Cross.

Believe on the One God has sent and love one another.

You say the demons do that.

Really?

Demons put their faith and trust in the Work of Christ, receive His forgiveness, gift of righteousness, and New Life? Demons love those around them?

Really? Do you really believe that what the Scriptures are referring to there is the same thing?

-JGIG

 

[Hizikyah]

. . . And you continue to ignore the dividing line between the Old and the New Covenants - that line being the Cross. On this side of the Cross, it's no longer about what you do to stay in covenant with God, but about what Christ did on our behalf to secure a forever, superior covenant with God into which we enter because of what Jesus DID.

You continue to do three things:

• Define the Law of God as the laws given to Moses at Sinai, ignoring that instructions existed before and exist after that set of laws.
• Ignore the Cross. You mention the Blood, but don't deal with what it accomplished.
• Ignore the Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood of Christ. He's of the Tribe of Judah, not Levi. The Old Covenant is obsolete because of the Work of Christ; the Old Covenant is obsolete as is its priesthood, which has been replaced by an oath from God, never to be revoked, because of the indestructible life of Christ.

Until you come to terms with those things, and begin to look at Scripture through the lens of the Cross and the Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood of Christ, and recognize that it's about His Fruit in our lives and not the performance of Law, you will continue to err.

-JGIG

And you wipe away those Scriptures with your own reasoning.

Define the Law of God as the laws given to Moses at Sinai, ignoring that instructions existed before and exist after that set of laws.

I am of the believe that the Creator of the heavens and earth, who knows the end from the beginning had the foresight to know everything He was going to do and everything that was going to happen, I do not think one day He realized, woah these little humans are sinful, I better get some rules together. NO, when the fallen malakim (angels) went astray there was already "rules" the same rules that have always been and always be.

People that don't understand hebrew, (not saying I do perfectly) but people who have no understanding of Hebrew do not know what a "new moon" is..... Its the same moon every 30 days, but there is no word in Hebrew for re-new..... new moon.

John 7:16-17 "Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching--whether it comes from Yahweh, or whether I am speaking of My own authority."


Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."

YHWH, the Most High, the perfect standard of righteousness, knew everything that was going to happen before it did, He did not change His plans one day because of silly humans.

• Ignore the Cross. You mention the Blood, but don't deal with what it accomplished.
  

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity (hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.
) Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

The opposition and hatred to Yahweh;s instructions was abolished, not the Law it's self.

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

It is impossible to have HIS LAW written on your heart if you are in oppisition (enmity) to it, so the ENMITY was abolished.

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Again:

"I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts"

Abolishing the enmity...having killed the enmity through Himself

• Ignore the Perfect, Permanent High Priesthood of Christ. He's of the Tribe of Judah, not Levi. The Old Covenant is obsolete because of the Work of Christ; the Old Covenant is obsolete as is its priesthood, which has been replaced by an oath from God, never to be revoked, because of the indestructible life of Christ.

LOL. If this is not the most false accusation IDK what is.

The priesthood has been transferred. Yahshua is now the High Priest....

So does that destroy do not kill?

treat a foreigner as yourself?

do not take the Name of YHWH in vain....

Hebrews 10:26-31, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living Father."

Who ever wants to go and play with baby Jesus on Dec 25th Im not your ruler, I cant control you, but me, I will seek the real Messiah.

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Exodus 15:2-3, "Yahweh is my strength and song, and He has become my Salvation, He is My Heavenly Father and I will praise Him; My father's Father and I will exalt Him. Yahweh is a man of war; Yahweh is His Name."

Revelation 19:13-15:, "And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh."

*But those verses are so scary we like the Jesus that lets us do anything we want!*

Wake up and hear HIS voice.

Who's your daddy?

Who's your daddy?

1 Corinthians 4:15-16, "For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father (3962. patér) in Christ Jesus through the gospel. I urge you, then, be imitators of me."

Matthew 23:9, "And call no man your father (3962. patér) on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven."

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[Hizikyah]

Micahyah (Micah) 4:5, "For all people walk each in the name of his god (430 - elohim), but we will walk in the Name of Yahweh (3068 - Yhvh) our Father forever and ever."

 

[Brother_Don]

more than one answer? just asking!