Done Away?

[Hizikyah]

Titus 3 v 9 any of ya'll ever read that???

I dont think he is talking about its validity, but rather details of.

Here is some Scripture why I believe this is so:

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

 

[gb9]

I dont think he is talking about its validity, but rather details of.

Here is some Scripture why I believe this is so:

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, he will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Mattithyah 22:36-40, "Teacher, what is the greatest commandment in the Law? Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

Acts 21:24, "Take them, and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads. Then everyone will know that those things they were informed about you (forsaking the Law), were lies, and that you, yourself, walk orderly, and keep the Law."

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

New American Standard Bible
So the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her children, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

King James Bible
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, (in conformity) with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

1785. entolé
Definition: an ordinance, injunction, command, law.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices falsehood."

really does not matter what YOU think or believe now does it?? matters what the Bible says, in context, as a whole. you can have your OPINIONS but they certainly are not rock-hard facts.

 

[Hizikyah]

really does not matter what YOU think or believe now does it?? matters what the Bible says, in context, as a whole. you can have your OPINIONS but they certainly are not rock-hard facts.

Sorry your majesty, im so wrong for providing Scriptures to show why I believe something, but it much easier to ignore the Scripture attack me and continue on....

thank you for being so kind and considering Scripture.

 

[john832]

Sorry your majesty, im so wrong for providing Scriptures to show why I believe something, but it much easier to ignore the Scripture attack me and continue on....

thank you for being so kind and considering Scripture.

I was just noticing who quoted scripture and who did not.

 

[gb9]

Sorry your majesty, im so wrong for providing Scriptures to show why I believe something, but it much easier to ignore the Scripture attack me and continue on....

thank you for being so kind and considering Scripture.

it just ticks me off that this is the 2nd or 3rd time I have pointed out to you something that Paul said and you either dismissed or twisted to your liking. this is dangerous stuff your doing.

 

[Hizikyah]

it just ticks me off that this is the 2nd or 3rd time I have pointed out to you something that Paul said and you either dismissed or twisted to your liking. this is dangerous stuff your doing.

SO captin Paul says nobody can say "do not kill" is valid?

I think you misunderstand him, for he himself said:

Romans 13:9-10, "For the commandments: You shall not commit adultery, You shall not murder, You shall not steal, You shall not bring false testimony, You shall not covet, and all other commandments are summed up in these Laws; namely: You must love your neighbor as yourself. Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law."

Unless you think he was a double talker? He did say circumcision made Christ of no effect then got Timothy circumcised.... but I know Scripture well enough that I believe I can use the rest of Scripture to understand Paul, not use Paul to understand the rest of Scripture....

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

 

[Grandpa]

You never see a thread about no Law against murder, do you?

You don't see any scripture where Jesus has explicitly said Come to Me and I will give you no more murder.

The Lord Jesus didn't come so that we could break the Law of Moses any which way we want. He came so that we could be presented Perfect before God, not by our work at the Law but by His Work.

It makes little difference that the carnal mind doesn't grasp this fact. God's Word has said thats the way it works.

2 Corinthians 3:14-15
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

 

[Hizikyah]

You don't see any scripture where Jesus has explicitly said Come to Me and I will give you no more murder.

The Lord Jesus didn't come so that we could break the Law of Moses any which way we want. He came so that we could be presented Perfect before God, not by our work at the Law but by His Work.

It makes little difference that the carnal mind doesn't grasp this fact. God's Word has said thats the way it works.

2 Corinthians 3:14-15
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

SO then it is evil to read "do not kill" and think man, I should not kill?

and is the veil believing do not kill is a good thing, or is the veil something else?

The same guy the wrote Corinthians wrote this:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

Romans 7:25, "Thanks be to Yahweh, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of Yahweh, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin."

 

[john832]

I am not sure what you are implying..He said he did not come to destroy the law...therefore he did not destroy the law...
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

I am playing off of your comments to make the point.

 

[gb9]

I was just noticing who quoted scripture and who did not.

mr. john, I do post verses I am not a good typer, so it is difficult for me to write out verses, so normally I just go Titus 3 v 9. also, when posting with some people on here, the verses get twisted or dismissed, so it's almost pointless. the lawkeepers pound the law, no matter what the Bible actually says.

 

[Grandpa]

SO then it is evil to read "do not kill" and think man, I should not kill?

The carnal mind is enmity against God. Why?

Isaiah 55:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

and is the veil believing do not kill is a good thing, or is the veil something else?

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That's the veil.

The same guy the wrote Corinthians wrote this:

Acts 24:14, "But I confess this to you, that after the way which they call heresy--so I worship the Father of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets."

What was the way they call heresy? It was the way of Christ. You don't worship God by working at the Law. You worship God in Spirit and Truth.

Which of the Fruit of the Spirit would cause you to break any Law? Which of the Fruit of the Spirit go against any Law or Prophets?

 

[john832]

The carnal mind is enmity against God. Why?

Isaiah 55:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

And it is the CARNAL mind that cannot obey or subject itself to the Law...

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

But the converted mind...

Php 4:13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That's the veil.

What was the way they call heresy? It was the way of Christ. You don't worship God by working at the Law. You worship God in Spirit and Truth.

Which of the Fruit of the Spirit would cause you to break any Law? Which of the Fruit of the Spirit go against any Law or Prophets?

No, the veil is the inability to understand the Law of God and that refers right back to Rom 8:7.

 

[Hizikyah]

The carnal mind is enmity against God. Why?

Isaiah 55:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That's the veil.

What was the way they call heresy? It was the way of Christ. You don't worship God by working at the Law. You worship God in Spirit and Truth.

Which of the Fruit of the Spirit would cause you to break any Law? Which of the Fruit of the Spirit go against any Law or Prophets?

The carnal mind can not submit to Yahweh;s Law

Romans 8:5-8, "For those who live according to the flesh, set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit, set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; (bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

It not about work, its about being who Yah wants us to be. How can the Law be written on ones heart and they hate it, say believing in it is a curse and its a work.... the Law is the standard, not work or a curse. and it is a default position of many to say work work work justified by work! as soon as one says, man we should listen to Him. This teaching is so foolish IMO, people are scared that if they do what He says they go to hell..... yeah people are scared of that, how satan has blinded the masses.....

Is this a work in your opinion if I read this, think to myself I should obey and pray for strength and guidance?


John 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My wordshas One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."

and is this a damnable heresy? Because BOTH of these are the words of Messiah recorded by His disciples....

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."


1 Yahchanan (John) 3:7, "Little children, let no man deceive you; he who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous."

Should I froth at the mouth and scream John is a justified by works fallen one?

Or is there a difference between obedience and one thinking they can be "good enough"

(loose) quote: "there is a mountain between the valleys of easy grace and salvation by works... it's called the word of Yah"

 

[Word_Swordsman]

there is no more Jew no more Gentile...God concluded all under sin....it takes the law to tell you what sin is....those who are in Christ are not under the law.....if you are not under the law in Christ ....and you say Christ did away with the law ....then what law are you not under? if he did away with the law then there is no law for us to be not under...and therefore non can be condemned...

Have you ever failed to keep a single law of Moses? Have you made your sacrifice at the temple in Jerusalem? Oops no temple, no priests making sacrifice.

I could really get offensive with a long list of laws you doubtless can't keep, and probably outright violate.

So the typical "defense" against Paul is to settle on rape and murder. Why debate the sins atop Moses' list? How about law number 332 half way down that list? Did you not ever violate it? Can you be certain you never will? If you live by those 613 laws and break one of them you will go to hell. without mercy, being guilty of all 613 regardless how well you kept "thou shalt not murder".

I have chosen to live by the Law of Liberty in Christ. The New Testament teaches me what sin is in more depth than Moses could. Why require both testaments to teach you what sin is, when the old law contains laws that are impossible for Jews to keep?

Let's switch to James a moment while I recognize there are some "Paul haters" here.
James 2:8-13 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Verse 10.....So why choose to submit to such a law when the apostles describe a far more advanced and perfected law of life and liberty that replaced the old law of sin and death that can't save anyone unless they never once violate the slightest old law?

Jesus dealt with that old law of adultery. The law deals with the very act. Jesus took that to the root. Nobody can help seeing or running into a temptation. But if you look at it again, ust take a "lust look" as I call it, then you have broken the Mosaic adultery law. Off to hell you go (under that old law), even if keeping the law perfectly from then on.
Matthew 5:27-28 (KJV) [SUP]27 [/SUP] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

"In his heart" is worse than "by the letter".

Jesus has a better way. Discard the old, embrace the New Covenant.

 

[Hizikyah]

If one accepts the blood of the Messiah they have Sacrificed.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The carnal mind is enmity against God. Why?

Isaiah 55:8-9
[SUP]8 [/SUP]For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.



Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

That's the veil.

What was the way they call heresy? It was the way of Christ. You don't worship God by working at the Law. You worship God in Spirit and Truth.

Which of the Fruit of the Spirit would cause you to break any Law? Which of the Fruit of the Spirit go against any Law or Prophets?

Yes the carnal mind is enmity to God, because it is of a person who believes they are saved yet can continue to sin without repenting of it or confess their future ones for forgiveness. They believe the law has no power over them by being in Christ, therefore they can continue to sin and it will not be imputed on them.
They fail to see the scriptures that say you need to first repent, and then on future sins you have to confess them before the Lord's precious blood covers them. Giving them remission of those sins, as this is one showing of what the bible calls a disobedient son. Instead of obeying God, they believe they can keep doing what they want The bible says those who are disobedient will be placed in the lake of fire as well.

 

[newbirth]

Romans 8:2 (KJV)
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

so we see two laws....now we have to understand if the freedom is from doing what the law says or from the penalty of the law...because the spirit and the letter says basically the same things....for there is no way one can obey the law of the spirit of the life in Christ and not do things contained in the law...
Romans 3:31
Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

 

[Hizikyah]

Matthew 5:27-28 (KJV) [SUP]27 [/SUP] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

You have heard = oral law of the pharisees

It is written = Law of Yahweh

Mattithyah 5:43-44, "You have heard that it has been said: You will love your brother--but hate your enemies; But I say to you; Love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do well to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you."

Most people think Yahshua is rebuking "OT", not at all, nowhere in Yahweh's words is this hate taught. This hate comes from the Talmud of the pharisees. Yahweh's words says:

Leviticus 19:34, "The stranger living with you must be treated as one of your native-born, and you shall love him as yourself; for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. I am Yahweh."

 

[john832]

Have you ever failed to keep a single law of Moses? Have you made your sacrifice at the temple in Jerusalem? Oops no temple, no priests making sacrifice.

I could really get offensive with a long list of laws you doubtless can't keep, and probably outright violate.

So the typical "defense" against Paul is to settle on rape and murder. Why debate the sins atop Moses' list? How about law number 332 half way down that list? Did you not ever violate it? Can you be certain you never will? If you live by those 613 laws and break one of them you will go to hell. without mercy, being guilty of all 613 regardless how well you kept "thou shalt not murder".

I have chosen to live by the Law of Liberty in Christ. The New Testament teaches me what sin is in more depth than Moses could. Why require both testaments to teach you what sin is, when the old law contains laws that are impossible for Jews to keep?

Let's switch to James a moment while I recognize there are some "Paul haters" here.
James 2:8-13 (KJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
[SUP]9 [/SUP] But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Verse 10.....So why choose to submit to such a law when the apostles describe a far more advanced and perfected law of life and liberty that replaced the old law of sin and death that can't save anyone unless they never once violate the slightest old law?

Jesus dealt with that old law of adultery. The law deals with the very act. Jesus took that to the root. Nobody can help seeing or running into a temptation. But if you look at it again, ust take a "lust look" as I call it, then you have broken the Mosaic adultery law. Off to hell you go (under that old law), even if keeping the law perfectly from then on.
Matthew 5:27-28 (KJV) [SUP]27 [/SUP] Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

"In his heart" is worse than "by the letter".

Jesus has a better way. Discard the old, embrace the New Covenant.

The New Covenant based on what?

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Word for Law in verse 33...

H8451

תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219

God does not change the Law to suit us, He changes us to suit His Law...

Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

He predicted this about 3500 years ago...

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

 

[Hizikyah]

God does not change the Law to suit us, He changes us to suit His Law...

Psalm 89:26-37, "He will call out to Me; You are my Father, O Yahweh! You are the Rock of my salvation! And I will make Him My firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth. My mercy I will keep for Him forever and My covenant will stand fast with Him. And I will establish his Seed forever, and his throne will be as the days of heaven. Should his children forsake My Law, and refuse to walk in My judgments; Should they profane My statutes, and fail to keep My commandments; Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with lashes from the whip. Nevertheless, My lovingkindness I will not utterly withdraw from him, nor will I ever betray My faithfulness. My covenant I will not break, nor will I change what that has gone out of My lips. Once for all, I have vowed by My holiness--I cannot lie, and I say to David: His Seed will endure forever, and his throne will endure before Me like the sun. His throne will be established forever like the moon: the faithful witness in the sky."