-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
M
I have a theory that it concerned the intimate relationship
with the Father. At the baptism of Jesus for example we
see the presence of God the Father, God the Son and God the
Holy Spirit in perfect intimate harmony.
Mark 1:9-11 NKJV
[9] It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth
of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. [10] And immediately,
coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit
descending upon Him like a dove. [11] Then a voice came from heaven,
"You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
Maybe I'm wrong but I think this close intimate relationship continued
unbroken until that moment when Jesus literally bore the sin of the
world. Then at that point that close spiritual intimacy was broken
for a time as Jesus took the weight of all sin upon himself and took the
punishment in our place.
I have a theory that it was at this point Jesus experienced what it was
like to be separated from the "trinity". He experienced the anguish of
walking in the darkness separated and it was unbearable.
Human beings experience this separation until they are born anew, even then
we don't fully surrender up our lives daily and live in close intimacy with Jesus
moment by moment, so many things get in the way and cause distraction.
Think of a young child suddenly realising they have let go of their father's
hand and are lost. How fear and distress comes upon them as they realise
they are alone.
But if true spiritual intimacy with God brings such a life giving close amazing all
encompassing unspeakable joy, that it made Jesus cry out when it was broken.
How much more is it worth us pursuing it with all our hearts. How much do
we keep straying into the shadows due to lack of faith, not taking our relationship
with Jesus seriously, how many times do we let go of that hand or not cling
onto it as tightly as we should.
Lord teach us how to walk closely with you hand in hand that we will know the
joy and peace of abiding in you, just as you are in the Father.
John 15:1-11 NKJV
[1] "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
[2] Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch
that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
[3] You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
[4] Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it
abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
[5] "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears
much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
[6] If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and
they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
[7] If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and
it shall be done for you.
[8] By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
[9] "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.
[10] If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept
My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
[11] "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that
your joy may be full.
with the Father. At the baptism of Jesus for example we
see the presence of God the Father, God the Son and God the
Holy Spirit in perfect intimate harmony.
Mark 1:9-11 NKJV
[9] It came to pass in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth
of Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan. [10] And immediately,
coming up from the water, He saw the heavens parting and the Spirit
descending upon Him like a dove. [11] Then a voice came from heaven,
"You are My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
Maybe I'm wrong but I think this close intimate relationship continued
unbroken until that moment when Jesus literally bore the sin of the
world. Then at that point that close spiritual intimacy was broken
for a time as Jesus took the weight of all sin upon himself and took the
punishment in our place.
I have a theory that it was at this point Jesus experienced what it was
like to be separated from the "trinity". He experienced the anguish of
walking in the darkness separated and it was unbearable.
Human beings experience this separation until they are born anew, even then
we don't fully surrender up our lives daily and live in close intimacy with Jesus
moment by moment, so many things get in the way and cause distraction.
Think of a young child suddenly realising they have let go of their father's
hand and are lost. How fear and distress comes upon them as they realise
they are alone.
But if true spiritual intimacy with God brings such a life giving close amazing all
encompassing unspeakable joy, that it made Jesus cry out when it was broken.
How much more is it worth us pursuing it with all our hearts. How much do
we keep straying into the shadows due to lack of faith, not taking our relationship
with Jesus seriously, how many times do we let go of that hand or not cling
onto it as tightly as we should.
Lord teach us how to walk closely with you hand in hand that we will know the
joy and peace of abiding in you, just as you are in the Father.
John 15:1-11 NKJV
[1] "I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
[2] Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch
that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
[3] You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
[4] Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it
abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
[5] "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears
much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
[6] If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and
they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
[7] If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and
it shall be done for you.
[8] By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples.
[9] "As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love.
[10] If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept
My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
[11] "These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that
your joy may be full.
E
When you say Spiritual death, do you mean separation from GOD?
Gods love can not over rule his justice.
However, Gods love can fulfill his justice..
Just some food for thought. We always take it and look back, but remember that God knows the future. The psalm is based on what Jesus would say in the future when it was written.
The point I am making is this, Did Jesus say that to direct people there? or was the Psalm written like that because God knew beforehand that Jesus would say that?
IN the end it is said and connects no doubt, But just coming from the other angle. may or may not help.
Blessings.
The point I am making is this, Did Jesus say that to direct people there? or was the Psalm written like that because God knew beforehand that Jesus would say that?
IN the end it is said and connects no doubt, But just coming from the other angle. may or may not help.
Blessings.
P
It blesses my heart to see a thread like this with so many viewpoints.
Jesus yet again being perfect in all things referring to what is now the intro to the 22psalm.
Paul in Hebrews 5:7-10 says it was prayer and supplicant.
I picked this scripture because it stood out from the content, and as a question rather than a statement.
I try never to lean on my own understanding so I ask....thanks for the responses and keep them coming.
They truly interlock between them all concerning Jesus Christ coming in the volume of the book as these prophesied of him (and he would fulfill the scriptures concerning himself)
Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luke 24:26
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you,
that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,
and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Acts 3:18
But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets,
that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
And the eunuch reading out of the book of Isaiah in Acts 8:32-33 (out of Isaiah 53:7) and he asked Philip this question (after Philipasked him whether he understood what he was reading)
Acts 8:34
And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this?
of himself, or of some other man?
As Jesus said, "They are they which testify of me"
Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Philip preached the gospel itself from Isaiah because Jesus fulfills the words of his prophets. And just as the Lord was handing the book of Isaiah to do a reading as is shown in Luke 4:18 after he finished reading from Isaiah 61:1 it says,
Luke 4:20
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down.
And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luke 4:21
And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
(in otherwords that is me)
The apostles show the prophets spoke of what has come to pass in their days
Acts 3:24
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken,
have likewise foretold of these days. ( mentioned here as wellLuke 24:18)
So just as we have an example of this in Philip preaching Jesus from the OT here
Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
The same is shown in Apollos this way,
Acts 18:28
For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
Even the same is expressed through Abraham in the gospel this way
Luke 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Which is in accord with Jesus words,
John: 46-47
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
And so we see Paul expounding and testifying of the kingdom of God and Jesus Christ
Acts 28:23
And... Persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets from morning till evening.
Even as the Lord said of the scriptures this,
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me
As He is the eternal life that was with the Father (1 John 1:2)
Psalm 40:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (Hebrews 10:7)
And as Paul said,
Acts 26:22
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great,
saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come
Jesus Christ being expounded out of them, and these are more noble and they with a readiness of mind
Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so
Jesus again, for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God
John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
The apostles confirming,
Acts 7:37
This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear (See Hebews 3:5 Moses being a servant unto those things that were to be spoken after)
As shown earlier, Jesus again
Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself
And again (in respects to Moses) Jesus said,
John 5:47
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Even as they testify of him and the words he himself would speak (as Moses gave a testimony of the same in Duet 18:18-19 who was a servant to the things that would be spoken after Hebrews 3:5 which have Jesus own testimony to the same truth
John 17:8
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them,
and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
I have one where you can see the everlasting covenant before and how that is brought in by the apostless who touch down on it in two places in Acts, bring in the second psalm (which shows the begotten of the dead needing to be fulfilled) and lastly on the second part bring in Melchezedek too. Its like they just keep shoveling more in and its very awesome what our God has shown in Jesus Christ, how all these pictures just pour into one man crucified for us in it. Blows my mind.
Luke 24:25
Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
Luke 24:26
Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
Luke 24:44
And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you,
that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses,
and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Acts 3:18
But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets,
that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
And the eunuch reading out of the book of Isaiah in Acts 8:32-33 (out of Isaiah 53:7) and he asked Philip this question (after Philipasked him whether he understood what he was reading)
Acts 8:34
And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this?
of himself, or of some other man?
As Jesus said, "They are they which testify of me"
Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Philip preached the gospel itself from Isaiah because Jesus fulfills the words of his prophets. And just as the Lord was handing the book of Isaiah to do a reading as is shown in Luke 4:18 after he finished reading from Isaiah 61:1 it says,
Luke 4:20
And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down.
And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
Luke 4:21
And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
(in otherwords that is me)
The apostles show the prophets spoke of what has come to pass in their days
Acts 3:24
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken,
have likewise foretold of these days. ( mentioned here as wellLuke 24:18)
So just as we have an example of this in Philip preaching Jesus from the OT here
Acts 8:35
Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
The same is shown in Apollos this way,
Acts 18:28
For he mightily convinced the Jews, and that publickly, shewing by the scriptures that Jesus was Christ.
Even the same is expressed through Abraham in the gospel this way
Luke 16:31
And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Which is in accord with Jesus words,
John: 46-47
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
And so we see Paul expounding and testifying of the kingdom of God and Jesus Christ
Acts 28:23
And... Persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets from morning till evening.
Even as the Lord said of the scriptures this,
John 5:39
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me
As He is the eternal life that was with the Father (1 John 1:2)
Psalm 40:7
Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, (Hebrews 10:7)
And as Paul said,
Acts 26:22
Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great,
saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come
Jesus Christ being expounded out of them, and these are more noble and they with a readiness of mind
Acts 17:11
These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so
Jesus again, for faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God
John 5:46
For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
The apostles confirming,
Acts 7:37
This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear (See Hebews 3:5 Moses being a servant unto those things that were to be spoken after)
As shown earlier, Jesus again
Luke 24:27
And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself
And again (in respects to Moses) Jesus said,
John 5:47
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?
Even as they testify of him and the words he himself would speak (as Moses gave a testimony of the same in Duet 18:18-19 who was a servant to the things that would be spoken after Hebrews 3:5 which have Jesus own testimony to the same truth
John 17:8
For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them,
and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
I have one where you can see the everlasting covenant before and how that is brought in by the apostless who touch down on it in two places in Acts, bring in the second psalm (which shows the begotten of the dead needing to be fulfilled) and lastly on the second part bring in Melchezedek too. Its like they just keep shoveling more in and its very awesome what our God has shown in Jesus Christ, how all these pictures just pour into one man crucified for us in it. Blows my mind.
I apologize for going a bit overboard there, but I love anything surrounding the cross of Christ and its really rare to find threads to participate on regarding it. I had moved off your original intent, anything further I will open another thread for. Better yet I think what I will do is create a blog or something.
God bless
God bless
Wouldn't spiritual death be permanent?
I think the Lord experienced death spiritually, but I don't think he experienced spiritual death.
Meaning the Lord died just like every person who died before Him and His Spirit went where everyone else goes. But He didn't die spiritually. He preached to the captives when He was there.
1 Peter 3:18-19
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
I don't understand why you would put spiritual death into Christs work on the cross. I hadn't read in the bible where that was a requirement either in the old testament or new.
I think the Lord experienced death spiritually, but I don't think he experienced spiritual death.
Meaning the Lord died just like every person who died before Him and His Spirit went where everyone else goes. But He didn't die spiritually. He preached to the captives when He was there.
1 Peter 3:18-19
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
[SUP]19 [/SUP]By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
I don't understand why you would put spiritual death into Christs work on the cross. I hadn't read in the bible where that was a requirement either in the old testament or new.
Psalm 139:7-8
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
God obviously won't/didn't turn His Back on David. Not sure why you would think that He would have to turn His Back on His Own Son.
Because of sin?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?
[SUP]8 [/SUP]If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.
God obviously won't/didn't turn His Back on David. Not sure why you would think that He would have to turn His Back on His Own Son.
Because of sin?
E
if it is, we can never be made alive.. We would be permanently dead. with no hope of being made alive in Christ.
That happened when he physically died. The payment for sin was already finished (it is finished) Jesus had already been restored to spiritual life by then.
Ps 22 speaks of it.. My God My God why have you forsaken me..