Faith is our righteousness - Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins

[PeterJens]

Paul believed it was our faith is Christ or God was deemed as our righteousness.

Jesus walked in the law and fulfilled the requirements of the law in His death on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

The question then becomes morality, of what value is it and how are we righteous or in fellowship with God in our walk?

It appears our behaviour is not deemed as righteousness or acceptable, but our faith in Christ.
We are in the process of sanctification, changing from the inheritence of sinful behaviour, a distorted body and often natural impulses, into a child of God. Our failures are very real, but the rope that holds us tight is the faith we hold on to.

Repetitive sin, strains and sometimes breaks this faith. But if we accept Jesus at His word, and return, and believe we have received the forgiveness offered. This completes the issue of failure or working things through in our lives, and resolves the issue of one sin or failure breaks the relationship or fellowship. It strains it, but faith is maintained. Peter denied Christ, yet he knew this failure did not break the love Jesus had for Him and he could come back and repent.

Now Calvanism resolves this issue with saying you are saved through accepting Christ which means from then on all your future sins are forgiven, you have the righteousness of Christ and so are perfect forever in Gods eyes. Even if you loose faith you are still saved. So the focus is on this declaration of faith and nothing more.

Paul would say rather keeping faith is what matters above all.

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2 Tim 4:7

To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations
Rev 2:26

Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
Rev 3:4

 

[PeterJens]

Fruit

The fruit of walking in the relationship with Christ is righteousness, the law of the Spirit. It is because we walk with the heart of God in us, we grow in His ways and do His works.

But to follow is to obey, to learn, to walk in His ways, because that is our desire. If we did not know Him, we would not be interested or even see the point. But because we listen to Him and desire victory and eternal life, we walk in these ways.

 

[John146]

I am not justified by my faith, but Christ's faith the moment I believe.

Galatians 2:16, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Philippians 3:9, "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"

My righteousness comes through the faith of Christ, not my personal faith I try to live out everyday. If that were the case, we all would fall woefully short.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Conduct is the proof of faith.

 

[valiant]

Conduct is the proof of faith.

Bit it is not the grounds of faith. The grounds of faith is Christ and what He has done for us.,

 

[coby]

The righteous shall walk by faith: faith that we're baptized in His death and we're a new creation.
As a man thinks so is he.
If you believe you're a sinner bound by sin you will act accordingly.
Be transformed by the renewal of your mind.
I have believed, therefore I have spoken.

 

[valiant]

I am not justified by my faith, but Christ's faith the moment I believe.

Galatians 2:16, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Philippians 3:9, "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"

My righteousness comes through the faith of Christ, not my personal faith I try to live out everyday. If that were the case, we all would fall woefully short.

roman 4 disproves your statement. Abraham believed GOD and it was counted to him for righteousness --- but for ours also, it will be reckoned to us who believe in Him that raised from the dead the Lord Jesus (rom 4.3, 24)

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The righteous shall walk by faith: faith that we're baptized in His death and we're a new creation.
As a man thinks so is he.
If you believe you're a sinner bound by sin you will act accordingly.
Be transformed by the renewal of your mind.
I have believed, therefore I have spoken.

I don't think faith in the fact that we are a new creation has anything to do with it. That's what gives us the ability to overcome sin and abide in him. The faith we need is that we are in him, where is perfect safety.

 

[valiant]

CHRIST is our righteousness -- Christ is our sacrifice for sins.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Bit it is not the grounds of faith. The grounds of faith is Christ and what He has done for us.,

That is absolutely true. Without that foundation we perish.

 

[John146]

How? Scripture is not wrong. I think we're on the same page. Abraham's belief in what God said was counted to him for righteousness. Likewise, our belief in the cross of Jesus Christ is counted to us as righteousness.

roman 4 disproves your statement. Abraham believed GOD and it was counted to him for righteousness --- but for ours also, it will be reckoned to us who believe in Him that raised from the dead the Lord Jesus (rom 4.3, 24)

 

[Grace777x70]

Romans 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

Romans 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 8:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

Romans 9:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

Romans 10:10 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For with the heart manbelieveth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Romans 14:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] For the kingdom of God ( Jesus said that the kingdom of God is within you..He might know a thing or two ) is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP] But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

2 Corinthians 5:21 (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2 Corinthians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

Galatians 2:21 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

Ephesians 6:14 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Ephesians 4:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.

Ok..that's enough..there are tons more....

 

[Grace777x70]

And the all time favorite is....every tongue that arises to condemn us about righteousness...will itself be condemned....for our righteousness is of the Lord Himself!



Isaiah 54:17 (KJV)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Paul believed it was our faith is Christ or God was deemed as our righteousness.

Jesus walked in the law and fulfilled the requirements of the law in His death on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

The question then becomes morality, of what value is it and how are we righteous or in fellowship with God in our walk?

This is not the issue, the issue is who's idea of morality do we use as our baseline.

You said jesus fulfilled the requirment of the law. One of the requirements is perfect obedience to the law as our soul moral compass..

so should we not use this as our moral baseline.. to determine who is righteous and who is not?

evidently God thought it was important enough as he made a requirment that th laamb must be unblemished (without sin)

why is it that reigion today lowers this baseline of morality? Does this not make them just as bad as the pharisee of Jesus day, or the religious jew of even our day? A watered down moral baseline will give people false hope..

It appears our behaviour is not deemed as righteousness or acceptable, but our faith in Christ.
We are in the process of sanctification, changing from the inheritence of sinful behaviour, a distorted body and often natural impulses, into a child of God. Our failures are very real, but the rope that holds us tight is the faith we hold on to.

This is an every day thing, it will never stop. As Paul said, we are to continue to run the race, because the race will not be complete until our bodies are redeemed..

Repetitive sin, strains and sometimes breaks this faith.

It may weakened, It will never break. and even if it did, Scripture makes it clear.

2 Timothy 2:13
If we are faithless, He remains faithful; He cannot deny Himself.

Now there is a living hope.. who can deny God wiht this much hope and security,, that even when we fail. He still will lift us up. because he put his reputation on the line when he gave us his gift of ETERNAL LIFE. based on our faith.

We all have sins we struggle with, I like to call our besetting sin, A sin we can not seem to break, It haunts us, It tries to tear us down, We may even replace this with another sin, because the guilt is to much to handle (the chastening of God I have had this and felt it)

It may nt be murder, or adultry, or fornication, it may just be pride, an ungrateful complaining heart. A judgemental attitude. But we all have them,, You can deny it all you want, but yes,you have one or more of these,, If you deny it,, You excuse your own sin and are not being honest with yourself.

which is one of the many dangers of legalism. A legalist can not admit he has sin struggles.. Or failures in overcoming some sin, for they would have to admit, they are not as righteous as they think they are...

But if we accept Jesus at His word, and return, and believe we have received the forgiveness offered.

So we lose salvation if we sin, and have to repent repeatedly.. This is legalism, and places a burden on th believer he can not handle.. Salvation is no longer dependent on Christ and his promise, it is dependent on our ability to do these things..

This completes the issue of failure or working things through in our lives, and resolves the issue of one sin or failure breaks the relationship or fellowship. It strains it, but faith is maintained. Peter denied Christ, yet he knew this failure did not break the love Jesus had for Him and he could come back and repent.

hmm, SO one sin is ok.. But many is not?

WHy did James say if we break even the least of all sin, We are guilty of the whole law.

Here we go again to the moral standard.. You water it down so you can break one sin and it is ok. When God said, if you commit one sin, the curse of the law (spiritual death) is your sentence.

Hw many times will you crucify CHrist over and over so you can be forgiven? He died once, so all mankind can be forgiven.. You have him having to die over and over every time you sin (if you took Gods standard and not your own.

You need to repent, and acknowledge to God you can not live up to his standard. Yesterday today or tomorrow. and pray he grants you forgiveness.

Now Calvanism resolves this issue with saying you are saved through accepting Christ which means from then on all your future sins are forgiven, you have the righteousness of Christ and so are perfect forever in Gods eyes.

Well it is not just calvanism. The author of Hebrews believed this also. as do many other believers in Christ

Hebrews 10:14
For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

Even if you loose faith you are still saved. So the focus is on this declaration of faith and nothing more.

A child of God wil never lose faith, it may grow week, But it will never be lost.

You do not life up a legalistic works based self righteous gospel. by saying you believe someone may or may not lose faith..

Paul would say rather keeping faith is what matters above all.

Paul said love is what matters most of all.. But thats beside the point.. Paul said we have been justified by grace.. We are saved through faith. We are saved by Gods mercy and his work. not our own.

So paul does not agree with your assesment and legalism.

I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
2 Tim 4:7

To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations
Rev 2:26

Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy.
Rev 3:4

Yep. they will get many rewards. As I pray all who belong to Jesus will

But they were saved solely on the fact they trusted God.. which took true repentance.

Salvation is a gift, not a reward.. You legalists keep trying to make it a reward that can be earned, You will fail. And all your works will not help you one bit, when jesus says depart for I never knew you.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Fruit

The fruit of walking in the relationship with Christ is righteousness, the law of the Spirit. It is because we walk with the heart of God in us, we grow in His ways and do His works.

This is so true, Paul saud we are saved by grace through faith and not work. And he who is saved is made into a new creature, created FOR GOOD WORK, in which they will walk (not might)

But to follow is to obey, to learn, to walk in His ways, because that is our desire. If we did not know Him, we would not be interested or even see the point. But because we listen to Him and desire victory and eternal life, we walk in these ways.

Your walking to earn eternal life.

1. You will fail (the law is Gods standard, and you better be perfect)
2. You will lose because you have mocked Gods grace, thus rejecting it.
3. You are teaching legalism, because your teachintg eternal life can be earned. .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

roman 4 disproves your statement. Abraham believed GOD and it was counted to him for righteousness --- but for ours also, it will be reckoned to us who believe in Him that raised from the dead the Lord Jesus (rom 4.3, 24)

Amen, Both abraham and King David were declared righteous men of God and saved eternally before they did one good deed, and long before they committed their horrific sins.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Paul believed it was our faith is Christ or God was deemed as our righteousness.

Jesus walked in the law and fulfilled the requirements of the law in His death on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

The question then becomes morality, of what value is it and how are we righteous or in fellowship with God in our walk?

Christianity is not morality. End of thread.

 

[John146]

2 Timothy 2:16-19, "But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some. Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

These false teachers have led astray some of the believers and have overthrown their faith(not Christ's faith). Paul let's the believer know that nevertheless, the foundation of God standeth sure because the seal of the Holy Spirit is what has guaranteed the believer not the believers walk.

By the way, how does the Lord know who are His? When He looks down on the 8 billion people, how does He know? The Bible says He knows by His seal, the Holy Spirit He has placed in all believers. The Lord does not see our actions as proof that we are His, rather, His Holy Spirit.

 

[PeterJens]

This is not the issue, the issue is who's idea of morality do we use as our baseline.

EG too sprauling an answer. Paul says faith without love is nothing.
But the point he is making without faith we have lost everything.

Judas lost his faith, Peter did not.
James added that real faith has works as fruit.
Peter added real faith is shown in righteous behaviour.

What matters is staying true to the end, being victorious.

As I said what you deny is that people can walk righteously or in a way pleasing to God, following His will.
You say continuously you feel guilt and conviction of sin, yet you claim you should not.

I suggest you are not walking in the spirit but in sin and the flesh, therefore do not know Christ, and your faith is incomplete.

You want to condemn me yet Jesus says if you disown him before people, he will disown you before His Father.
Strange that sounds like if you walk away from Jesus you truly are lost, like Judas who sold out Jesus.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG too sprauling an answer. Paul says faith without love is nothing.
But the point he is making without faith we have lost everything.

So do you agree that the law is the standard or not? What standard of morality do you use?

Paul was right faith without love is nothing,, In fact, Jesus said ALL tghe law and prophets stand on the law of love.. Do you agree or not??

Judas lost his faith, Peter did not.

Judas never had faith, if he did, He never would have left.

Peter had faith, thats why he immediately returned to God. His faith was not in himself. but in Christ, the son of the living God..

Yet jesus still had to encourage and exhort him (do you love me peter) Because peter was weak.. because of his sin..

James added that real faith has works as fruit.

So did Paul eph 2: 10. What your point? I have NEVER DENIED THIS..

Peter added real faith is shown in righteous behaviour.

Really? You think I did not know this? Show me a man who has real faith in someone else. yet NEVER DOES A THING THEY ASK.. or does a few things, But only the things he wants to do..

What matters is staying true to the end, being victorious.

Here we go back to the moral guideline again, Why are you watering down Gods standard??

As I said what you deny is that people can walk righteously or in a way pleasing to God, following His will.

No. I deny any man can walk according to Gods standard. Peter walked righteously, But he did not walk in Gods standard, neither did Paul. Or abraham, Or david, Or any man other than Christ.

There is a HUGE difference between walking righteousness, and walking in a way you have earned the right to be saved (as you call it victoriously)

Think about it, If we could walk victoriously as you say we have to. We would never need saved in the first place. the very fact we need to be saved, PROVES we can never walk according to Gods standard..

What you deny is Gods standard.

No that is you. Gods standard is perfection. period.

Cursed is everyone who does not CONFIRM and OBEY ALL THE WORDS (every jot and tittle) of the law,

The law will never fail and never fade away, It will be there on judgment day, And if your not saved by then, you will be held accountable by the law. and you will be judged accordingly.

You say continuously you feel guilt and conviction of sin, yet you claim you should not.

It does not mean I wallow in it, or judge myself. that is something you can not fathom, I know because I have been in your shoes.

I suggest you are not walking in the spirit but in sin and the flesh, therefore do not know Christ, and your faith is incomplete.

If my faith was incomplete. I would not be praising God. and putting my hope and eternity in his hands, I would still be like you and still trusting myself. and hoping I continue to walk worthy so God does not reject me.

You want to condemn me yet Jesus says if you disown him before people, he will disown you before His Father.
Strange that sounds like if you walk away from Jesus you truly are lost, like Judas who sold out Jesus.

I can not condemn anyone, only their gospel.

You reach works, you preach against grace,, If you have never repented, or do not repent. Well you will not have to worry about what I think (in fact you better not worry now. because I can not do anything) You better start worrying about what God thinks