Faith is our righteousness - Christ is our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins

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PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#21
Feb 24, 2015
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#21
John146 said:
I am not justified by my faith, but Christ's faith the moment I believe.

Galatians 2:16, "Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified."

Galatians 2:20, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

Philippians 3:9, "And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:"

My righteousness comes through the faith of Christ, not my personal faith I try to live out everyday. If that were the case, we all would fall woefully short.
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This sounds like Bathianism. Jesus has done everything for us, is our total substitution, therefore there is nothing for us to respond with.

The question for me is the translation wrong faith is in Christ or faith is of Christ? The problem with going between languages etc. is meaning can be changed. Whatever people have faith in, it is still their faith. If the subject is peoples faith, then that has to create a result. If the faith of Jesus in God brought forgiveness to the believer, then that is enough.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#22
Feb 24, 2015
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#22
eternally-gratefull said:
No that is you. Gods standard is perfection. period.
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This is a statement of your faith. Perfection is an undefined word, and is up to the reader to see what they want to see.
A perfect score in football could be 1 - 0. It could be 10 - 0. This is why using the word perfect actually is saying the standard is the highest in this category possible.

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:19

The problem with this verse is it is not saying setting aside the commands is grounds for not entering the Kingdom, just you are called the least in the Kingdom.

The problem as christians, is we set aside vast parts, because Jesus's death fulfilled the law. So justification or forgiveness was through faith in Jesus's death, not through the temple and the sacrifices any more. This changed the law, as Paul showed, we are under the law of the Spirit and not the written law. This makes everything more complex, because the precepts of the law have not gone, it is the letter that has been removed.

I know your logic and ideas, but scripture does not support them. We are justified by faith.
It is the communion with God that transforms us, and nothing else. Because of the communion we are obedient to Christs commands, if His words remain in ones heart. But I know you have a different structure, but that is your affair, I know where I stand.
 
G

gb9

Senior Member
#23
Jan 18, 2011
11,806
6,363
113
#23
PeterJens said:
This is a statement of your faith. Perfection is an undefined word, and is up to the reader to see what they want to see.
A perfect score in football could be 1 - 0. It could be 10 - 0. This is why using the word perfect actually is saying the standard is the highest in this category possible.

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:19

The problem with this verse is it is not saying setting aside the commands is grounds for not entering the Kingdom, just you are called the least in the Kingdom.

The problem as christians, is we set aside vast parts, because Jesus's death fulfilled the law. So justification or forgiveness was through faith in Jesus's death, not through the temple and the sacrifices any more. This changed the law, as Paul showed, we are under the law of the Spirit and not the written law. This makes everything more complex, because the precepts of the law have not gone, it is the letter that has been removed.

I know your logic and ideas, but scripture does not support them. We are justified by faith.
It is the communion with God that transforms us, and nothing else. Because of the communion we are obedient to Christs commands, if His words remain in ones heart. But I know you have a different structure, but that is your affair, I know where I stand.
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no, not by faith. we are saved BY grace THROUGH faith FOR good works. get that out of order, mess everything up. grace is the saving component, faith is response to grace.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#24
#24
PeterJens said:
Perfection is an undefined word, and is up to the reader to see what they want to see.
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Nonsense.

Matthew 5:48

"Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect."
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#25
Nov 24, 2012
30,709
3,650
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#25
Christ Jesus is our righteousness...faith takes hold of Him...even at that our faith wavers.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
#26
PeterJens said:
This is a statement of your faith. Perfection is an undefined word, and is up to the reader to see what they want to see.
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Thats the problem right there.

The reader does this far to often, That's why satan's lie of legalism is so easy for the world to take.. It looks religious, it tastes religious, so it must be religion.

What the reader thinks does not matter,, You will not stand in front of God (nor will anyone else for that matter) and say, But God my interpretation of perfection was "______________" so you can not judge me. God will cast you out of heaven if you do not understand what HIS defenition of perfection is.

and yes, perfection is defined by God..

Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
A perfect score in football could be 1 - 0. It could be 10 - 0. This is why using the word perfect actually is saying the standard is the highest in this category possible.
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We are not talking about football now are we? Wow. you amaze me more and more of your ability to take Gods truth and try to relate it to mans thinking.

God said he would make mans wisdom foolishness. Do you bot agree with God? Why do you want to make God human??

Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
Matt 5:19

The problem with this verse is it is not saying setting aside the commands is grounds for not entering the Kingdom, just you are called the least in the Kingdom.

The problem as christians, is we set aside vast parts, because Jesus's death fulfilled the law. So justification or forgiveness was through faith in Jesus's death, not through the temple and the sacrifices any more. This changed the law, as Paul showed, we are under the law of the Spirit and not the written law. This makes everything more complex, because the precepts of the law have not gone, it is the letter that has been removed.
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Yet here we are too people.

1. I agree that sin is sin is sin and not water it down. If God says no, If God says do, if God says anything, to not do what God says is sin.. And I admit, I am a sinner,,
2. You, You teach you can commit one sin, and your ok (that is what you said earlier)

You do not understand Gods requirement, if you did, you would not make such huge mistakes.

I know your logic and ideas, but scripture does not support them. We are justified by faith.
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No you do not, And you prove it everytime you try to explain what YOU THINK I believe.

And you can claim you believe we are justified by faith all you want, Until all you teach agrees with that, you are contradicting yourself.
It is the communion with God that transforms us, and nothing else. Because of the communion we are obedient to Christs commands, if His words remain in ones heart. But I know you have a different structure, but that is your affair, I know where I stand.
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No you don;t know where you stand,, You think you know. and that is the scariest part of it all.

You do not even know Gods requirement.

He has perfected forever.. by one sacrifice.. those who are being sanctified.

God has to perfect me, because I can not perfect myself.

God has to sanctify me, and ongoing project, because again, I can not perfect myself, and must learn to grow and trust him.. Only then can I be mature in his love.
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#27
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
#27
PeterJens said:
This sounds like Bathianism. Jesus has done everything for us, is our total substitution, therefore there is nothing for us to respond with.

The question for me is the translation wrong faith is in Christ or faith is of Christ? The problem with going between languages etc. is meaning can be changed. Whatever people have faith in, it is still their faith. If the subject is peoples faith, then that has to create a result. If the faith of Jesus in God brought forgiveness to the believer, then that is enough.
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What is Bathianism? I can't find anything on it.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#30
#30
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
What is Bathianism? I can't find anything on it.
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why bother. Just look up in the bible.. Licentiousness (God saved me and did everything, So I can live however I please. it does not matter) is damned in the bible.. All these silly made up names does not make licentiousness any more true or less..
 
jandian

jandian

Senior Member
#32
Feb 12, 2011
772
11
18
#32
2 Peter 2: 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[e] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#33
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
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#33
eternally-gratefull said:
why bother. Just look up in the bible.. Licentiousness (God saved me and did everything, So I can live however I please. it does not matter) is damned in the bible.. All these silly made up names does not make licentiousness any more true or less..
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I like researching these things because it allows me to trace how the gnostic spirit that Augustine introduced into Christian theology made its way to the manifestations of it that we are seeing now.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#34
Feb 24, 2015
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#34
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#35
#35
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
I like researching these things because it allows me to trace how the gnostic spirit that Augustine introduced into Christian theology made its way to the manifestations of it that we are seeing now.
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Same old story, I think you just like to convince yourself you are right.

You would be better served to realism what gnostic really were.. but even that, will not help you..

Thats why I said it is better, especially for people like you. just to stick with the bible.

 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#36
#36
jandian said:
2 Peter 2: 20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them. 22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: “A dog returns to his own vomit,”[e] and, “a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire.”
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This does not prove one can lose salvation.

It serves as a warning to those who are just spectators in any church, whoo has not made a profession of faith yet. to stop playing games and make a decision, for it will be worse for you if you do not. when you go to hell. then for someone who did not even know God, or outright just refused to believe anythign about God and it will

a DOG is always a dog. He will return to his own vomit.
 
PeterJens

PeterJens

Banned
#37
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
#37
eternally-gratefull said:

Thats the problem right there.
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EG - There is a problem. Matthew is the one writer who uses the word perfect in relation to the sermon on the mount, and Jesus and the rich young man. If you are going to take this open word in the context of perfect like the Father as referring to everything you also have to do the same with the idea of being perfect is following Jesus.

Equally going to Lukes gospel and he is writing the word as being merciful like the Father. The context of this perfection is loving your enemy. Now if your theology changes radically because of one word in one gospel, you have got something very wrong. Also when that word is unclear, it is almost meaningless.

For instance you fail to answer the question as to why Jesus is talking about the law and fulfillment, when in your mind the law has always been irrelevant. Now before the cross, how were people saved?

Equally you hold hell is torment for all eternity for the lost, yet the whole of old testemant talks only of death not torment.
And how could people follow God and walk in fellowship then? According to the Paul by faith and being obedient to the law.
The law did not justify them, but it showed their faith.
 
F

FreeNChrist

Guest
#38
#38
eternally-gratefull said:
Same old story, I think you just like to convince yourself you are right.

You would be better served to realism what gnostic really were.. but even that, will not help you..

Thats why I said it is better, especially for people like you. just to stick with the bible.

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In his case you had better specify which Bibles.....just sayin'.
 
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