Gay and Lesbian Announcement: Once Saved Always Saved
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with caution, I would say that it depends on how the person's life effects their heart.
this is something only God can judge -- but did they continue to have faith in Christ above all else, and when they meet Christ are they willing to put everything else aside? Or is that part of their life now the most important thing to them, a form of self-worship? Are they embittered towards other Christians and is that bitter narcissism now their guiding principle, or are they simply enslaved by spiritual torment that they lacked the spiritual support to overcome?
Only God can judge, and while I agree that this question could help some, if it incites others to try and judge in God's place (even to judge them as saved, when it is not their place to say), then that isn't helpful.
Christianity isn't all about certainty -- sometimes it is in the questions that we are close to God.
this is something only God can judge -- but did they continue to have faith in Christ above all else, and when they meet Christ are they willing to put everything else aside? Or is that part of their life now the most important thing to them, a form of self-worship? Are they embittered towards other Christians and is that bitter narcissism now their guiding principle, or are they simply enslaved by spiritual torment that they lacked the spiritual support to overcome?
Only God can judge, and while I agree that this question could help some, if it incites others to try and judge in God's place (even to judge them as saved, when it is not their place to say), then that isn't helpful.
Christianity isn't all about certainty -- sometimes it is in the questions that we are close to God.
I think the question is, does homophobia exist in the church? And I think the answer is yes. The idea of homosexuality to me is a cringey subject, only because I'm heterosexual. But the idea that people can love each other without the physical sin, doesn't that need to be accepted more in the church?
Just because someone is gay or lesbian does not mean you have to assume they are sexually active.
Sexual promiscuity is as prevelant with heterosexuals, as it is with homosexuals. But when a heterosexual comes to church or wants to be a part of something Christian, do people treat them the same as a homosexual?
How many heterosexual people here have sex outside of marriage? I'm sure it is nowhere near 'none'.
Do people judge by labels? Again the answer is yes, generally people do. So if to escape this, there became a separate church created by gays/lesbians, isn't that a symptom of the lack of love people have for their kind, and for each other?
As Christians we can help to take away the labels we put on others. In our humility.
Homosexuals have always existed, but it is only in the last half a century that they were less oppressed. They haven't just appeared out of nowhere in big numbers. And yet people still feel that they should be oppressed, as in, both the sexually active, and the sexually inactive - that is what going by a label does.
Reality evolves, freedom evolves, civilised societies evolve, rights evolve, law evolves. Religion evolves too. We are not living in bible times. And things don't tend to devolve, or go backwards in time.
Would anyone like to live in a Muslim country where people still get stoned to death?
Just because someone is gay or lesbian does not mean you have to assume they are sexually active.
Sexual promiscuity is as prevelant with heterosexuals, as it is with homosexuals. But when a heterosexual comes to church or wants to be a part of something Christian, do people treat them the same as a homosexual?
How many heterosexual people here have sex outside of marriage? I'm sure it is nowhere near 'none'.
Do people judge by labels? Again the answer is yes, generally people do. So if to escape this, there became a separate church created by gays/lesbians, isn't that a symptom of the lack of love people have for their kind, and for each other?
As Christians we can help to take away the labels we put on others. In our humility.
Homosexuals have always existed, but it is only in the last half a century that they were less oppressed. They haven't just appeared out of nowhere in big numbers. And yet people still feel that they should be oppressed, as in, both the sexually active, and the sexually inactive - that is what going by a label does.
Reality evolves, freedom evolves, civilised societies evolve, rights evolve, law evolves. Religion evolves too. We are not living in bible times. And things don't tend to devolve, or go backwards in time.
Would anyone like to live in a Muslim country where people still get stoned to death?
So would you say going back to the garden of eden would be de-evolution? You've swallowed a lot of worldly narrative, no offense.
The western world only understands progress as it pertains to empowering individuals, not empowering ideals or communities. That is also why western civilization is in decline. Freedom in the west has become an ideal that places the self above everything else.
But I would agree that the LGBT church is symptomatic of a lack of love -- because the rest of the church has room to grow in the love of God, and that love is the only thing that can keep people holy. So it is everyone's responsibility to grow in God's love to these people, but that includes honesty. It is not loving them to tell them that dysfunction is healthy.
The western world only understands progress as it pertains to empowering individuals, not empowering ideals or communities. That is also why western civilization is in decline. Freedom in the west has become an ideal that places the self above everything else.
But I would agree that the LGBT church is symptomatic of a lack of love -- because the rest of the church has room to grow in the love of God, and that love is the only thing that can keep people holy. So it is everyone's responsibility to grow in God's love to these people, but that includes honesty. It is not loving them to tell them that dysfunction is healthy.
What God has called sin, He will not then call righteous (in deed). You cannot make an argument of progressive morality, or an altering morality, without contradicting the objective truths of God's Law. Things evolve, yes, but evil no matter what society accepts is still evil. Just because, for example, murder becomes popular in a culture it doesn't then make murder righteous. Society does not set the standards of righteousness, God does and indeed, He will judge the world. Might I add, thank God for Jesus!
Jesus died for homosexuals, just as He died for all sinners. God wants to set people free of their sins and that includes homosexuality. There isn't a sin He wants us to abide in. God loves homosexuals, just as much as He loves drunkards, liars, and fornicators. He, however, wants them to walk in holiness and hasn't just extended His grace so that we may stay in our sins but so that sin may not have dominion over us. He can give victory to all sinners, by grace.
I say it again, thank God for Jesus.
Jesus died for homosexuals, just as He died for all sinners. God wants to set people free of their sins and that includes homosexuality. There isn't a sin He wants us to abide in. God loves homosexuals, just as much as He loves drunkards, liars, and fornicators. He, however, wants them to walk in holiness and hasn't just extended His grace so that we may stay in our sins but so that sin may not have dominion over us. He can give victory to all sinners, by grace.
I say it again, thank God for Jesus.
P
My my so many grey areas in the word. Plus the fact of political correctness. A dog returning to his own vomit.
We all have sin but the practice of it is not condoned. What we might have here is a counterfeit but who are we to judge. Sexual immorality has no place in the kingdom of God. Love covers a multitude of sin but it does not cover a dog knowingly returning to his vomit. Reprobate comes to mind.
As we walk with God we will sin but this is not our desire, at least it shouldn't be, we press on not pitch our tent in our sin. John said when we sin we have a advocate, not living in sin.
We all have sin but the practice of it is not condoned. What we might have here is a counterfeit but who are we to judge. Sexual immorality has no place in the kingdom of God. Love covers a multitude of sin but it does not cover a dog knowingly returning to his vomit. Reprobate comes to mind.
As we walk with God we will sin but this is not our desire, at least it shouldn't be, we press on not pitch our tent in our sin. John said when we sin we have a advocate, not living in sin.
You can always tell when you're spot-on, willybob..... others will pounce on your post like white on rice.
Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
That’s it. That is the sole test of salvation.
1 Corinthians 3: 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Salvation is not a get out of jail free card. There are still consequences to sin.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Sexual sins will received greater scrutiny.
That’s it. That is the sole test of salvation.
1 Corinthians 3: 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
Salvation is not a get out of jail free card. There are still consequences to sin.
18 Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a person commits are outside the body, but whoever sins sexually, sins against their own body. 19 Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; 20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your bodies.
Sexual sins will received greater scrutiny.
God loves homosexuals, just as much as He loves you BenFTW. Listen to that and accept it.
It's an obvious comparative statement you were making about how you think God's love is weighed, but this is based on your own thinking. It is very common and you are not alone there. It is not the way Gods sees everyone equally. Whether you admit that or not it is your choice within yourself.
For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Sin takes people away from God, but it does not mean God does not love them the same. The love of God is infinite, always with open arms, waiting for people to turn back to God.
The biggest mistake people make in religion is thinking God loves them more, because they are good, or because they aren't homosexual, or because they waited until marriage for sex, or because they go to church every Sunday, or because they know the bible inside out, or because they condemn evil the most.
In peace and love
It's an obvious comparative statement you were making about how you think God's love is weighed, but this is based on your own thinking. It is very common and you are not alone there. It is not the way Gods sees everyone equally. Whether you admit that or not it is your choice within yourself.
For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
Sin takes people away from God, but it does not mean God does not love them the same. The love of God is infinite, always with open arms, waiting for people to turn back to God.
The biggest mistake people make in religion is thinking God loves them more, because they are good, or because they aren't homosexual, or because they waited until marriage for sex, or because they go to church every Sunday, or because they know the bible inside out, or because they condemn evil the most.
In peace and love
W
That's not possible Willie-T because, Ive' read enough of your beliefs and it equates to rebellion and being saved in your sin....I teach heart purity, and coming clean with God in repentance during a season of Godly sorrow like Paul says in 2 Cor. 7-10,11....The difference is like day and night, I don't think anyone will get us confused....Dig deep and build on the Rock of Truth, lest the flood of lies sweep away your house..............
Oh how people twist words in these forums. If I say God loves homosexuals, I am not saying God loves their sin.
Empathy - lack of it here, there are a few. Instead, self-righteous prejudice.
It seems with these debates, that instead of sharing love on a subject (oh twist those words into love for homosexuality right? I hear that mind ticking), the sense of pride from some of you, in getting one up on each other is more important. And you know it, yet you will hide it.
As for the kind hearted comments I read, I appreciate your ability to tolerate it, because as I've observed people seem to get away with it and none of you of high authority, batter an eyelid.
Pride never sees itself as a bully, or as acting superior. However it usually has victims, but in its pride is blind to see. But ask yourself before you speak, is what I am about to say in a spirit of humility? And yes again, let me stop that mind of yours from thinking of looking at what I said for some way of proving how I myself am not speaking in the spirit of humility. Pride yet again.
It's not an anger of judgement I feel, it is more a sadness, that you do not see it in yourself, or you do, and you deny it.
God bless you anyway
Empathy - lack of it here, there are a few. Instead, self-righteous prejudice.
It seems with these debates, that instead of sharing love on a subject (oh twist those words into love for homosexuality right? I hear that mind ticking), the sense of pride from some of you, in getting one up on each other is more important. And you know it, yet you will hide it.
As for the kind hearted comments I read, I appreciate your ability to tolerate it, because as I've observed people seem to get away with it and none of you of high authority, batter an eyelid.
Pride never sees itself as a bully, or as acting superior. However it usually has victims, but in its pride is blind to see. But ask yourself before you speak, is what I am about to say in a spirit of humility? And yes again, let me stop that mind of yours from thinking of looking at what I said for some way of proving how I myself am not speaking in the spirit of humility. Pride yet again.
It's not an anger of judgement I feel, it is more a sadness, that you do not see it in yourself, or you do, and you deny it.
God bless you anyway
I didn't say otherwise. You may have somewhat of an agenda if you missed what I was saying to nitpick on the way I worded that statement. The point was that homosexuals are sinners, just as any of those other sinners listed and all people are in need of Christ. We all are loved by God, and His grace is extended to us all.
I didn't put myself on a high horse, so you are attacking a straw man. If you had the time to review my posts you'd see that on posts that are harsh towards homosexuals I make it clear in my post that God loves them and His grace is sufficient for them as it is for the person being critical of them.
We are not to condemn the world, for not even Jesus Himself came to condemn the world but save it. It is God's goodness that leads men to repentance, and so lets express that goodness as the Holy Spirit convicts them unto faith in Christ.
I didn't put myself on a high horse, so you are attacking a straw man. If you had the time to review my posts you'd see that on posts that are harsh towards homosexuals I make it clear in my post that God loves them and His grace is sufficient for them as it is for the person being critical of them.
We are not to condemn the world, for not even Jesus Himself came to condemn the world but save it. It is God's goodness that leads men to repentance, and so lets express that goodness as the Holy Spirit convicts them unto faith in Christ.
Oh how people twist words in these forums. If I say God loves homosexuals, I am not saying God loves their sin.
Empathy - lack of it here, there are a few. Instead, self-righteous prejudice.
It seems with these debates, that instead of sharing love on a subject (oh twist those words into love for homosexuality right? I hear that mind ticking), the sense of pride from some of you, in getting one up on each other is more important. And you know it, yet you will hide it.
As for the kind hearted comments I read, I appreciate your ability to tolerate it, because as I've observed people seem to get away with it and none of you of high authority, batter an eyelid.
Pride never sees itself as a bully, or as acting superior. However it usually has victims, but in its pride is blind to see. But ask yourself before you speak, is what I am about to say in a spirit of humility? And yes again, let me stop that mind of yours from thinking of looking at what I said for some way of proving how I myself am not speaking in the spirit of humility. Pride yet again.
It's not an anger of judgement I feel, it is more a sadness, that you do not see it in yourself, or you do, and you deny it.
God bless you anyway
Empathy - lack of it here, there are a few. Instead, self-righteous prejudice.
It seems with these debates, that instead of sharing love on a subject (oh twist those words into love for homosexuality right? I hear that mind ticking), the sense of pride from some of you, in getting one up on each other is more important. And you know it, yet you will hide it.
As for the kind hearted comments I read, I appreciate your ability to tolerate it, because as I've observed people seem to get away with it and none of you of high authority, batter an eyelid.
Pride never sees itself as a bully, or as acting superior. However it usually has victims, but in its pride is blind to see. But ask yourself before you speak, is what I am about to say in a spirit of humility? And yes again, let me stop that mind of yours from thinking of looking at what I said for some way of proving how I myself am not speaking in the spirit of humility. Pride yet again.
It's not an anger of judgement I feel, it is more a sadness, that you do not see it in yourself, or you do, and you deny it.
God bless you anyway
maybe read the Parables of Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parables_of_Jesus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parables_of_Jesus