God means for all His Saints to be sinless

[Stephen63]

Revelation 22:18 - For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

People forget that the teachings of Revelation are interwoven with the other epistles. When the commandments & teachings of other epistles are broken, many times they are broken in Revelation as well.

Adding to "related scriptures" that are also in Revelation adds to Revelation as well. The same for "taking away"

Folks teaching obedience is no longer required are also taking away from the obedience scriptures listed in Revelation.

Adding & taking away from Revelation WILL bring them the judgment, no matter what book they intended on twisting up.

Woe on those who rip out obedience & living by faith!

 

[jenniferand2]

aaahhhh it is about obeying Jesus and not satan. If a person only obeys Jesus and not satan they are no longer living in sin.



And if that sinless man lives inside of you, than you too can become like Him, yes or no? If what you say is True that only one man was able to live a life without sin (Which we know full well Jesus was the only man who NEVER sinned) Why would Jesus tell a man and a woman to do something that you say is impossible to do? i mean if it is not possible to become without sinning, why would Jesus instruct a man to "Go and sin no more, lest a worst thing come upon you" He also plainly instructed a woman to "Go and sin no more" also. NO, He did not say "Go and commit adultery no more" He specifically chose His words exactly as He wanted them to be written; He said to her "Go and sin no more"
Paul also says and teaches "Awake to righteousness and sin not". He also said and taught "Shall we continue in sin?... .. .. God forbid" So who am i to believe? You which teach nobody can walk sinless like Jesus did, or believe Jesus and His Apostles which plainly teach it is possible? What about the words of the Apostle John which says:

1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

Why would the Apostle John write that "Whosoever abideth in Jesus does not sin:" Believe you, or Scriptures?




The Spirit of God. Tell me, Did Jesus teach the world will receive the Truth or reject it? Answer me this question:

What sin do you do that you can't possibly cease from?

The answer is, there is not one sin that you do that you can't cease from. With the help of Jesus Christ you can cease from every known sin to man. If then a person is feeling inadequate because of some kind of sin in their life that they can't seem to get rid of, what is that to God? There is no temptation so strong that a person can't handle it. And with every temptation God allows a path out of it. If a person is feeling inadequate is is because they are not looking to Jesus for help, but trying to cease by and through their own power, which they will never be adequate enough to do.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

i do not think Dave is saying you have to live totally sinless that is near impossible he is saying the through Gods Word and prayer and repentance and from learning from our sins and not repeating the obvious sins Like the ones in the ten commandments or any other sin we know is a sin... we have to continue to pray for strength to defeat any desire to sin or do wrong.. He is also saying that the bible is the word of God and not what other people say is the word of God. in other other words look to the bible for understanding and pray for understanding .the only way not to be lead astray is by the actual words of God other wise advice from Joe or Bob Or anyone may not be the actual word of God But their version of how they think the word of GOD is...People will go out and preach the word of GOD. it is up to you to have a personal relationship with GOD and His actual words. The bible is a tool for us to learn about GOD. to learn his will. to learn his rules. to learn his desires.

 

[jenniferand2]

People forget that the teachings of Revelation are interwoven with the other epistles. When the commandments & teachings of other epistles are broken, many times they are broken in Revelation as well.

Adding to "related scriptures" that are also in Revelation adds to Revelation as well. The same for "taking away"

Folks teaching obedience is no longer required are also taking away from the obedience scriptures listed in Revelation.

Adding & taking away from Revelation WILL bring them the judgment, no matter what book they intended on twisting up.

Woe on those who rip out obedience & living by faith!

yes taking things away from scripture just as naughty

 

[gb9]

People forget that the teachings of Revelation are interwoven with the other epistles. When the commandments & teachings of other epistles are broken, many times they are broken in Revelation as well.

Adding to "related scriptures" that are also in Revelation adds to Revelation as well. The same for "taking away"

Folks teaching obedience is no longer required are also taking away from the obedience scriptures listed in Revelation.

Adding & taking away from Revelation WILL bring them the judgment, no matter what book they intended on twisting up.

Woe on those who rip out obedience & living by faith!

and also woe unto those who teach that we are saved by ANYTHING except the grace of God.

ya'll can argue , twist, spin all you want. you cannot change what the Bible says about being saved by grace.

 

[JesusLives]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

What cost to myself. i am bought with a price. i do not own myself. i belong to Him and to Him only. As to hearing His voice. Starting to cry now. He has not spoken to me since 1994. crying now. be back in a minute.

...................................................................................

But after i ran, and even now to this day, He has not spoken to me since 1994. Crying again, hold on. i ll be back

Ok i'm better now. Anyways. i can't say i have not sinned since i got Saved. But i can say, that i no longer continue to live in sin. That is to say i no longer knowingly or willingly do anything that is sinful. When i am tempted to commit sin, i look to Jesus my Savior for help. The Word says with every temptation Jesus allows a path out of it, therefore one must look for that path in order to find that path out of it. For me, it was going immediately into prayer, or start reading the Bible. Do you know how much i have read the Bible. over 85 times front to back. i have found a pearl of Truth when i was a kid in church. it was less likely for me to sin in Church then out of Church, therefore the more i immersed myself in the Word of God the less satan had an opportunity to tempt me to commit sin. If i don't go to the bar, he can't tempt me to drink there.
There are many, many things that i did and still do to prevent myself from obeying satan. i think the biggest deterrent from me committing sin was that knowing that if i didn't do it. that God is going to Bless me, He is Faithful and He teaches He will. So then i would much rather receive a Blessing from him, then to experience His punishment.

"Posted by JesusLives"

Are you saying that you don't hear God talking to you anymore or since 1994? I don't hear Him talking to me all the time but I know His presence is with me because He promised to be with me to the end of the world...and anytime I have been seeking Him with all my heart He has responded to me or helped me find Bible direction that I needed or someone will come along and help answer my questions...

He is still with you too - could you explain more about why you were crying? I'm sorry for your sadness... or that my questions would make you cry.

The paragraph that I copied from your larger post above shows me that you understand the not sinning anymore is a process as it doesn't happen all at once at least that has not been my own experience and some sins have taken more work for my heart to totally surrender them to Jesus, but sanctification is a process.

I like the Bible verses Galatians 5:16-24

[h=3]Keep in Step with the Spirit[/h][SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][d][/SUP] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do[SUP][e][/SUP] such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]
23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

I would also venture a guess that most of the people that have posted are on course for showing the fruits of the Spirit as I can't imagine anyone wants to stay on the path of the flesh.... I believe that we are on different rungs of a ladder in our spiritual walk with God. As His Spirit reveals to us faults or sins that we need to overcome and we can only do this through His help but it is not our works it is God working in us. Christ working in us.

I agree with you that God sees Jesus and not our sinful selves as Jesus blood covers us.

 

[DiscipleDave]

“But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.”

This verse teaches we are to live by every word. Didn't Jesus specifically teach us "A new Commandment, I give unto you, Love One Another" Are you? living by every Word that comes from God? Every Word?

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

People forget that the teachings of Revelation are interwoven with the other epistles. When the commandments & teachings of other epistles are broken, many times they are broken in Revelation as well.

Adding to "related scriptures" that are also in Revelation adds to Revelation as well. The same for "taking away"

Folks teaching obedience is no longer required are also taking away from the obedience scriptures listed in Revelation.

Adding & taking away from Revelation WILL bring them the judgment, no matter what book they intended on twisting up.

Woe on those who rip out obedience & living by faith!

Yes, and woe to all those who believe a doctrine which specifically has verses in Scriptures that contradict their belief. These hold on to false doctrines, proclaiming they know the TRUTH, they be blind.

If what you believe contradicts even ONE verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is indeed a FALSE Doctrine, and that is the TRUTH. So this generation will continue to hold on to their doctrines because this or that verse teaches what they believe is the TRUTH. But these same people will ignore, make void, or interpret away any other verse that contradicts what they believe is the TRUTH. They will hold on to the couple of verses that supports their own belief, and negate all the other verses that contradict what they believe.

For example, Many hold to the OSAS Doctrine, because they interpret a few verses to mean that. Yet there are numerous verses which contradict OSAS Doctrine, these verses they ignore, make void, interpret away, or negate them in some fashion.

God told me a sure fire way to determine if you are believing in a false doctrine. This generation would do well to hearken unto the Words of God which told me this"

"If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG"

So then if you have a belief "A" and "A" contradicts a verse in Scriptures, then "A" is a false doctrine. That is a FACT, and many will be weeping and gnashing their teeth, because they did not hearken to that FACT.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

and also woe unto those who teach that we are saved by ANYTHING except the grace of God.

ya'll can argue , twist, spin all you want. you cannot change what the Bible says about being saved by grace.

Who is saying you are not Saved by Grace?

The problem is, you FAIL to realize that Scriptures plainly teach What a person must DO, once they are Saved by the Grace of God. Getting Saved, and Being Saved are two entirely different things. However this generation believes the false doctrine that they are ONE AND THE SAME. They do error, not knowing or understanding the Truth of Scriptures.

You need to do a study on GRACE. Know you not it is the Grace of God that allows a devil worshipper to breathe every day? If satan had his way, he would kill him/her as soon as he could, to ensure that soul in his army he is building. But it is the Grace of God that allows that person another day, yet another opportunity to repent and turn from his sinful ways.

We are Saved by Grace, exactly like you said, but GRACE is not the ONLY thing that SAVES like you seem to be teaching.
We are also Saved by believing (FAITH) in Him.
We are also Saved by believing and being baptized. (Mark 16:16)
We are SAVED by CALLING on the Name of the Lord (Acts 2:21)
We are SAVED by Hope (Rom 8:24)
We are SAVED by confessing with our mouth the Lord Jesus (Rom 10:9)
We are SAVED by His Mercy (Titus 3:5)
We are also SAVED if we ENDURE to the end quoted several times in Scriptures,{ it would behoove this generation to study and find out exactly what a person must ENDURE to the end, is all about, because they that DO ENDURE will be SAVED, those who don't endure, won't be SAVED.}

So as you can see, you can't just pick and choose which verses you will believe in = To Be SAVED. All of them apply. So then there is more to it that just being Saved by Grace, learn the Scriptures, study them.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Grace777x70]

The exact same way we received Christ ( which is by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection ) is the exact same way we are to walk in.

Colossians 2:6-10 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

[SUP]10 [/SUP] and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Works-based salvationists deny the finished work of Christ and try to make it seem that salvation is all up to you - what you do. That is anti-Christ in it's belief system.

Believing Christ and His finished work for us will bear much fruit as His life will be manifested in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see Christ's love and grace for them.

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

 

[Grace777x70]

Legalism in the biblical sense of the word - is any attitude or belief that human merit and self-effort can produce, prove or preserve for one-self an acceptable standing before God.

Whenever our assurance of salvation s in going to be with the Lord for eternity rests upon "our performance" rather than upon the "promises" of Jesus - we are in big trouble - we have fallen from grace and we have exchanged Christ Himself for a works-based religion that has the "appearance" of god but denies the power of God.

It is a works-based righteousness that denies the righteousness of God in Christ which is a gift from God. Rom. 5:17

Satan and his horde do not come to the believer in Christ and say "Sin all you want" because no one would for fall for such a lie.

Instead they come as "ministers of righteousness".

They want us to live by our own D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness so that we will be not be depending on what Christ has done for us by grace through faith alone for salvation.

This cuts us off from receiving the grace of God in our lives.

2 Corinthians 11:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14[/SUP] And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

[SUP]15[/SUP] Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works. ( notice that is "their" works )

This below is what satan is really after...this is why he has false teachers in our midst. He wants us to fall away from grace and depend on our own performance.

1 Peter 1:13
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, fix your hope completely on the grace being brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.

All works-based salvationists mindset are anti-Christ in their core beliefs which deny the finished work of Christ which is by grace through faith only.

Don't let anyone deceive you from the simplicity that is in Christ and we can trust Him.

He that began a good work in you will perfect it in you. Phil. 1:6

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave

What cost to myself. i am bought with a price. i do not own myself. i belong to Him and to Him only. As to hearing His voice. Starting to cry now. He has not spoken to me since 1994. crying now. be back in a minute.

...................................................................................

But after i ran, and even now to this day, He has not spoken to me since 1994. Crying again, hold on. i ll be back

Ok i'm better now. Anyways. i can't say i have not sinned since i got Saved. But i can say, that i no longer continue to live in sin. That is to say i no longer knowingly or willingly do anything that is sinful. When i am tempted to commit sin, i look to Jesus my Savior for help. The Word says with every temptation Jesus allows a path out of it, therefore one must look for that path in order to find that path out of it. For me, it was going immediately into prayer, or start reading the Bible. Do you know how much i have read the Bible. over 85 times front to back. i have found a pearl of Truth when i was a kid in church. it was less likely for me to sin in Church then out of Church, therefore the more i immersed myself in the Word of God the less satan had an opportunity to tempt me to commit sin. If i don't go to the bar, he can't tempt me to drink there.
There are many, many things that i did and still do to prevent myself from obeying satan. i think the biggest deterrent from me committing sin was that knowing that if i didn't do it. that God is going to Bless me, He is Faithful and He teaches He will. So then i would much rather receive a Blessing from him, then to experience His punishment.

"Posted by JesusLives"

Are you saying that you don't hear God talking to you anymore or since 1994?

i thought what i said above clearly answered this question. He has not spoken to me since 1994.

I don't hear Him talking to me all the time but I know His presence is with me because He promised to be with me to the end of the world...and anytime I have been seeking Him with all my heart He has responded to me or helped me find Bible direction that I needed or someone will come along and help answer my questions...

He is still with you too - could you explain more about why you were crying? I'm sorry for your sadness... or that my questions would make you cry.

Your question did not make me cry or sad. Every time i think about running from God, and He has not spoke to me since, i can't help but cry, tearing up even now. Since i was a very young kid, up to 1994, i use to have conversations with God whenever He started them. i would have many questions from the Bible prepared to ask Him, when He would next come calling me. He taught me the Word of God, He told me meanings of prophesies, we had conversations. That all ended in 1994 when i ran. Sure i can FEEL His presence in my life. Sure i pray continually to Him. Sure i say the Lords Prayer every yellow vehicle i see. i know He is close to me. i know He is in my life. We just don't have conversations like we did prior to 1994. He did not even speak to me to bring back out of the Darkness that ran too, He sent an Angel to communicate His message to me, instead of merely speaking to me Himself. Oh how i long to hear His voice again, but because i ran, turned away from Him, my punishment for that, was i would not be able to converse with Him again. Crying now, Again.
It's All good, i will hear His Voice again soon. But even now i have questions for Him, in the event He decides to speak to me again.

The paragraph that I copied from your larger post above shows me that you understand the not sinning anymore is a process as it doesn't happen all at once at least that has not been my own experience and some sins have taken more work for my heart to totally surrender them to Jesus, but sanctification is a process.

Most certainly. In my early days, after i ran, i tried to quit all sinning at once. it was not pretty. satan could come at me from every side, nicotene demons swarmed me. lust demons around every corner, he would plague me with doubts and worries, he would attack my esteem. No it is better to get rid of the sin that so easily besets you. Notice it does not say in (Heb 12:1) Sin(s) Plural, but SIN, singular. So then get rid of the sin you do most, then work on another, then another. You will Fail if you try to do it on your own, or through your own power, Jesus will help you, seek Him, ask Him. Also if it is a secret sin, such as Porn, BEFORE Jesus will help you with this, you must first confess your sin one to another. If you are married and have a problem with porn, "TELL YOUR SPOUSE, Just do it" If you are not married, tell a Christian Brother if you are a man, or a Christian Sister if you are a woman. Just Do it.

I like the Bible verses Galatians 5:16-24

Keep in Step with the Spirit

[SUP]16 [/SUP]But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions,
[SUP]21 [/SUP]envy,[SUP][d][/SUP] drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do[SUP][e][/SUP] such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, [SUP]
23 [/SUP]gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

I would also venture a guess that most of the people that have posted are on course for showing the fruits of the Spirit as I can't imagine anyone wants to stay on the path of the flesh.... I believe that we are on different rungs of a ladder in our spiritual walk with God. As His Spirit reveals to us faults or sins that we need to overcome and we can only do this through His help but it is not our works it is God working in us. Christ working in us.

You are not far from the Kingdom of God.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[DiscipleDave]

The exact same way we received Christ ( which is by grace through faith in His finished work on the cross and resurrection ) is the exact same way we are to walk in.

Colossians 2:6-10 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Therefore as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,

[SUP]7 [/SUP] having been firmly rooted and now being built up in Him and established in your faith, just as you were instructed, and overflowing with gratitude.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.

[SUP]9 [/SUP] For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form,

[SUP]10 [/SUP] and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;

Works-based salvationists deny the finished work of Christ and try to make it seem that salvation is all up to you - what you do. That is anti-Christ in it's belief system.

Believing Christ and His finished work for us will bear much fruit as His life will be manifested in and through us to a hurt and dying world that needs to see Christ's love and grace for them.

Galatians 3:3 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?

It is only when what you believe does not contradict even one verse in Scriptures, is when you can come to the TRUTH.

i can choose to believe every verse that says and teaches all one must do is have Faith under Grace and they are Saved, But then i would have to choose to disregard, make void, or interpret away, all the verses which plainly teach it takes MORE than Faith only.

So you can list over and over again all the verses that back up what you believe to be the Truth, but they do not negate all the other verses which is contrary to what you believe is the TRUTH.

ONLY when EVERY verse concurs with a belief that you have, is when you Might be touching upon the TRUTH.

But if there is one verse that contradicts what you believe to be the TRUTH, then of a TRUTH you believe a lie, and it is not from God, for no lie is from God. Any belief that contradicts one Holy Inspired by God verse in Scriptures is a false doctrine, and "Oh my" how many there are today.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[Grace777x70]

We have to keep 2 aspects in mind when interpreting scriptures on salvation.

Works-based believers see the warning scriptures and "interpret" those to mean that one loses salvation as in going to be with the Lord for eternity. This type of mindset does not know the love and grace of God for people and thus they develop a fear based religion of works "to keep one saved".

1 John 4:18-19 (NASB)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

[SUP]19 [/SUP] We love, because He first loved us.

Salvation manifests itself here in this earth and also for going to be with the Lord because we are in Christ - sealed by the Holy Spirit when we believed as Paul said in Eph. 1:13 ; 4:30.

Start shooting heroin in your arms today and you will NOT experience salvation - that is life and wholeness on this earth for very long.

Confuse the 2 and we will come up with all kinds of works-based salvationists views - like we lose our righteousness. We don't have our "own" righteousness. Christ Himself is our righteousness.

I believe we have to differentiate between "going to heaven to be with the Lord " salvation and - "being saved from the things that can destroy us here while being on this earth."

There are different manifestations of salvation in Christ - one is going to be with the Lord - the other is concerning the things of this life on earth.

The promised land is a type of being in Christ now - it is not a type of heaven as there will be no giants to fight in heaven.

Moses did not get to rest in what God had already provided for the Israelites - but yet Moses is with God now.

The promised land is a type of living here on this earth by believing in the promises of God. Only Caleb and Joshua were the ones that got to experience the promises of God in the promised land because they believed in what God had said.

We can inherit now in this life some things that are of the kingdom of God because the kingdom of God is within us...however if we don't have our minds renewed to the truth in Christ ( which includes living by the Spirit within us ) - we can not experience the things of the kingdom that are available to us believers.

Scripture uses the same Greek word - " salvation, saved " = wholeness, preservation, keep safe, deliverance, make well - for both being saved from things in this life and for going to be with the Lord for eternity.

If we don't understand this difference we will continually be mis-applying scriptures that talk about "being saved here in this life from things" and "going to be with the Lord".

There is eternal salvation and there is manifestation of salvation from temporal things while on this earth. Confuse the two and we end up with a mixed up message of self-effort for going to heaven and only the blood of Jesus does that.

Jesus is either our Savior for going to be in heaven with Him or we are our own savior by helping Him. One is by grace through faith-righteousness - the other is works-righteousness.

Let's just rely on the Holy Spirit to reveal the things of Christ to us.

We are safe in the Lord Jesus Christ and we can trust Him to do what He has He will do and has already done for us.

We have a great salvation in Him! We can trust the Lord when He said "I will never leave you nor forsake you!"

 

[Grace777x70]

We all have to decide whether the Lord Jesus Christ is a liar or is He really God who said " God is not a man that He should lie".

The Holy Spirit is with us forever Jesus said.

John 14:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;

[SUP]17 [/SUP]that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

Ephesians 1:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The Spirit of truth is with us forever!

2 John 1:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] for the sake of the truth which abides in us and will be with us forever:

Jesus said that the Holy Spirit will be with us and in us forever. John 14:16-17. Our Lord is NOT a liar.


John says we are safe in the Lord as He keeps us. Isn't that exciting to know that?


We can trust Him to finish that which He has started. Jesus is not a liar and all the promises of God are "Yes and Amen" in Christ.

Now, is the One who saved you and with His blood bought eternal redemption a liar? I say NO...a thousand times NO!

Hebrews 9:12 (NASB)
[SUP]12 [/SUP] and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, He entered the holy place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.


We have the forgiveness of sins because of His blood - not because of our own self-efforts in saving ourselves. That is the gospel message. Acts 10: 43

Trust in the Lord. He is faithful!

 

[Chris2552]

Grace is right, we can't lose salvation.

The question becomes, do we listen to the commandments and do works because we have to or because we want to?

 

[HeraldtheNews]

Yes those who believe Works ONLY believe that, and they are wrong. But those who believe Faith only are as equally wrong. Faith and Works go hand in hand, This is also what Scriptures plainly teach.



Can Scriptures be broken? Are Scripture incorrect? Do you believe Scriptures?

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Did Jesus Command us to Love One Another? Do you obey Him? Eternal Salvation is unto them that OBEY Jesus Christ, NOT to them that disobey Him.


i will tell you the Truth. Those who have Faith and no works, will be rejected by Jesus. Those who have all works and no Faith, will also be rejected by Christ. But those who have Faith (Believe) and Works (Love One Another) will be accepted by Him.


i Love you all, again. Better start studying the Word of God and learning the Truth, before it is to late.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

I think I should reply to this since I have been dealing with some of these issues, such as legalism (relying on religious performance) and learning to grow in faith. While I may not agree with everything taught by the "Freedom in Christ" ministry, the books "The Bondage Breaker," and "Victory Over the Darkness," can be very helpful to people who are facing these issues that Disciple Dave teaches about. Dr. Neil Anderson is the friend of sinners, for sure, and people facing addictions, depression, spiritual oppression, and mental health challenges.

But, Disciple Dave is right about the Bible teaching that people who are aware of what the Bible teaches, and who are not trying to obey it and relying on only an empty faith and empty witness, can be relying on a false sense of security. Most pastors I have heard would agree with this. The Bible clearly warns that people who knew the will of God, and keep putting it off until the last moment (the story of the five virgins whose "lamps" ran out of oil, which symbolizes knowing Jesus and following Him faithfully every day), can end up being told after the spiritual doors of Christian fellowship are closed--forever-- "I never knew you." Also, those who pleaded that they had even worked miracles in Jesus name, can be in danger of this, if they are overcome again by sin. "Away from Me, you who work iniquity ("practice lawlessness" other translations.)
"from whom much is given, more will be expected."

It's good to hear such warnings from Christians like Disciple Dave--Jesus gave the exact same warnings. If people like Disciple Dave did not warn people and awaken them to take action, who would? It's the same as a military commander and other gifted leaders who know how to rouse people to action. We are in a war--a battle, and Dave is right that there may not be much time left to get right with God, and stay right with God.

The issue is not even the severity of the sin, as much as it is willful disobedience, especially for those to whom revelations have been given, like Moses and Aaron. They knew better than to doubt God's word, but did in a moment of weakness and trial. The LORD disciplined them severely because he knew they were not losers, and could and would strive to be the best they could be, and also for a lesson for future generations. Also, Mirriam and Aaron(?) were complaining about something to Moses, and God disciplined Mirriam severely by being removed from the faithful with leprosy. This is to call people to the highest standards.

Would God say, "well, you're saved, so you can just sit around and smoke weed and drink beer and engage in fornication in your mind or body or a computer and suffer no consequences.?" Dave's right, that comes from the devil.

Even though we live under the New Covenant of Grace and Mercy through Jesus the Lamb of God, Many Christians are like myself (until recently), and have been depressed and "asleep" on the job, and lukewarm and apathetic.
Over the last few years, I have received consistent and clear warnings about this, even being awakened by an earthquake one morning and hearing the words, "Left Behind," shortly before the movie was re-released in 2014.

Mental sins, which seem so easy to commit, are just as serious. It's our lack of discipline that can lead to being "disqualified," as the Apostle Paul warned-- "so that I may not be disqualified, after preaching to others, through a lack of discipline." If we are not alive in Christ through Grace, and are only "Christians by name only," like Martin Luther warned, or are trusting in idols like our own efforts and mental or emotional resources (idol of self) or in religious rules (idol of religion), we can end up lukewarm and wandering aimlessly, if we as Christians are not "ON FIRE" for God and ENERGIZED by the Holy Spirit.

These are the last days, I'm fully convinced. It could even be the last Easter, or even the last Christmas!! We are supposed to live like it is and those who do will be rewarded, and those who fall from Grace seriously, and refuse to repent, can be lost. But, God is the judge. Not us as individuals. If we judge and condemn people, instead of warning them, then we can be judged with them.

God is a merciful God. But He can never compromise His Word or His Covenant. And He would not be just if He stood by and let His sons and daughters of the Kingdom, who know better, just drift aimlessly, asleep at the helm, headed into a storm. The storm is here. The battle is now. The Lord is coming soon. He wants us to say:

"GET OUT OF BED!! WATCH AND PRAY!!" "Could you not watch with Me for even one hour?" "Arise and pray, so that you do not fall into temptation." Peter later warned: "Be sober; Vigilant; for your adversary the devil stalks like a lion, looking for who they can devour." (paraphrase)
And Paul: "Awake, O sleeper!!" Literally for some people, or blinded by the subtle cunning of the powers of darkness.

Good leaders challenge people to take action. "On your walls, O Jerusalem, I have set watchmen, I have set watchmen..." If soldiers fall asleep on the watch, their lives can be lost, along with many others, maybe even a whole city. The military commander in the movie, "Top Gun," told it like it was to a wavering, and wounded officer in aerial combat: He gave him every chance to succeed by trusting him enough to deliver when things heated up, and even said, "I'll fly with you," if no one else was willing to. He didn't say, "well, you're wavering a little, but, you'll be ok." He said, "I'm not here to [shine] sunshine up your [engine]!!" And that he was greatly shaken, and needed to recover his confidence in order to return to the mission in life where his talents were useful and proven in battle.

Spiritual warfare is not just a man's world, like the military can be at times. In fact, women are God's secret weapon--His "nuke." If they know that they have the heart of God's power, and are not afraid to "stare down the devil," life or death--trusting in the LORD, and the power of God's love, like that nice lady did in the movie about the musician (Beach Boys) who was being controlled by a disturbed older brother. Who got "Maverick," to wake up out of his loser, self-pity, "I can't make it--it doesn't matter anyway," state of mind, and turned him back into a victorious warrior? One sentence from a lady.

I have been warned by the LORD, almost directly at times, (like being shown the verse where the Apostle Paul warned that even he risked being disqualified, if he gave up). Even with things like just wanting to take short rest during the day-- the Lord tried to warn me that it was "critical" not to revert to a pattern of lazy habits, or even briefly falling into easy mental sins. These may seem like not that important, but the issue is that they are old strongholds that can still sink a ship. The issue is not the severity of a sinful behavior, but, the willful disobedience. Like Disciple Dave has warned-- those who are not "on fire for God," and live in the free-gift of Grace--in God's power--not our own, can risk falling into the fires of those who have lost.

Serious conditions like depression and other things like addictions or laziness, can not be overcome on our own power or mental or emotional resources. Our own minds or hearts can neither justify, or condemn us, as the Apostle John said: "If our heart condemns us, God is greater than our hearts."

We can not justify ourselves, or walk by faith on our own power--it's not only impossible, but is an offense to the Blood of Christ of the New Covenant of Mercy and Grace.

 

[HeraldtheNews]

A few more things-- Mirriam was only separated from the Israelites with leprosy for a week, not permanently, but some people have been in the Bible.

And some reassuring verses for those who are called to the Kingdom, and who may feel overwhelmed by spiritual battles:
(btw--the key to winning spiritual battles is not to try to fight them on our own, with our own mental, emotional, or spiritual resources-- The Bible, and the well known Christian hymn remind us that, "THE BATTLE BELONGS TO THE LORD!")
Spiritual prayer warriors who know deliverance and how to fight the devil, remind us that the key to overcoming spiritual oppression, and winning spiritual battles, and keeping the devil away from us--EXPELLING THE DEVIL--, is not so much in trying to shout, or pray or fast malicious, dark spirits, or EXHORCISE them, especially not on our own, but, the answer is, instead of working so hard to EXPELL the devil, which can be a battle of enticement of pride, but,
INVITING THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST TO REIGN IN OUR HEARTS AND LIVES-- daily as savior AND Lord. Some people want to be saved, but, we still want to be our own kings. James said, "draw near to God, and He will draw near to you."

 

[HeraldtheNews]

It's also important to remember that there are situations where exhorcisms may be necessary, or comprehensive spiritual intervention when people are too overwhelmed to seek help on their own. Sadly, there are not very many places yet where people can get spiritual help 24/7 without being told that they need anti-depressants, and/or psych meds to overcome the "schizophrenic voices" in their heads and delusions that they are being spiritually oppressed.

Kenye West, who has been in the news with some unusual issues, husband of Kim Kardashian, said it best:

:"I feel like I'm being spiritually attacked!--Kenye West
In trying to describe strange experiences that can not be explained in a mental health diagnostic manual--
There is nothing whatsoever in mental health literature and education, or schizophrenia explanations, that can describe the intense, bizarre, distressing, often paranormal oppression of malicious, dark spirits that he was trying to describe.

This stuff is on the increase, and I heard that the Catholic Church has been increasingly receiving desperate calls for exhorcisms. Just read "The Bondage Breaker," (Dr. Neil Anderson--Freedom in Christ Ministries) to hear about real-life encounters with the "paranormal" and descriptions of "exhorcisms." Pope Francis has also been described as having the gift of exhorcism, but, Dr. Anderson says that he doesn't believe it needs to be a special gift, and that any true Christian, who truly lives the Gospel with Apostolic Zeal, with the right support and guidance, can counsel and help people who are severely spiritually oppressed, and distressed, or even possessed, and hearing and experiencing bizarre things and being told that anyone who hears voices in their heads are "schizophrenic."

Dr. Anderson points out in his books, that it is very common for Christians to occasionally hear "voices" in their heads, especially if they are being spiritually attacked, or oppressed by tormenting spirits or spirits of bondage...etc...And most of the time, they are not experiencing mental illness.

 

[gotime]

sinless that word leaves a sour taste in my mouth because as much as I try I can never be sinless and the sinless doctrine is what made that word foul to me. I was a victim of the sinless doctrine in my second year of faith I was at church and it was the only church I was able to go to and the pastor had a particular interest me but the thing is he was a firm believer of the sinless doctrine I was not because i sinned no matter how hard I tried.

He pummeled into my mind that i was not saved because I sinned I even got to the point where I feared I was going to hell and so I tried even harder not to sin and yet screwed up I just knew I was going to hell. It wasn't until I had a dream of seeing the face of Jesus that I was rescued. I saw his eyes they were not eyes of wrath and judgement and they seem to speak what they saw using no voice or words. In those brilliant shining blue eyes I saw he saw me in deep love I felt the warmth of his care I saw a mirror and saw myself I saw what I saw in my eyes and I was covered in grim and filth I saw a disgusting sinner but then suddenly it's as if i heard a voice saw now look through my eyes.

Suddenly the image changed i was so clean that I was shining I wore a crown wore royal robes and held a royal scepter and I saw myself bawling in my reflection because this was not what I was lead to believe.

So for anyone who teaches preaches or believes in the sinless doctrine consider my story and consider the damage you cause by teaching this doctrine, btw I tried to kill myself because I believed what this pastor taught me but luckily Jesus showed the truth.

Might I suggest that the issue is not so much the concept of sinless that is the problem here but rather this:

You said "because as much as I try..." there is a problem with these words at least to my perception. Why are you trying? it is God who works in you both to will and to do his good pleasure. please take this is the kindest of ways as I know the feeling you communicate here. Those who are trying are not letting. And its only by letting God work and trusting his promises to shape us a clay that we find transformation. The reason people try and fail is because they have yet to learn what true salvation is. The carnal nature will always fail and thus the only hope of success is not trying but letting God give us a new nature. If one is new in nature by the power of the creator God then they also will not try but rather do what the new nature naturally does. That is why John said the one who is born of Him does not sin because his seed remains in him and he cannot sin. It is not because of trying but because when by faith we are made new we naturally do what is right just as the old nature naturally did what was wrong. In our carnal nature we did not try to do evil, we naturally did it. SO it is with the new nature received by faith. It naturally hates sin and loves that which is good.
hopethishelps,blessings.

 

[oldethennew]

the only time that we are sinless is when we 'don't sin'...

after we are called and chosen, and elected, our journey of sin-less-ness begins...
after conversion, this is our calling and reason for living for Him, to become as He has
shown us by His Sacrifice, to become, to walk, to Love as He Loves us as best we can, from
where we are in Him, a walk in The Light, a continual growing process until the day that we give-up
our lives for Him...