HELL

[Magenta]

DEATH, NOT TORTURE, IS THE PUNISHMENT OF SIN

Such is death, and the Scriptures declare repeatedly that it is death that is the great penalty for sin. Right from the beginning, death is the sentence, and the wording of that sentence as originally given shows clearly what is meant. God said to Adam as a consequence of his disobedience (Gen. 2:17) -"Thou shalt surely DIE."

There was no threatened eternal torment, but on the contrary Adam was told (Gen. 3:19) -

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou RETURN UNTO THE GROUND: for out of it wast thou taken: for DUST THOU ART AND UNTO DUST SHALT THOU RETURN."

Paul says, commenting upon the Adamic sentence (Rom. 6:23) --

• "The wages of sin is death."
  "By one man’s offence death reigned" (Rom 5:17).

And Rom. 6:21 --

• "The end of those things (the works of the flesh) is death."

-- not eternal living torment, but DEATH.

• "Sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth DEATH" (James 1:15).

The penalty of death and destruction is both just and merciful, the penalty of eternal torture is neither just nor merciful.

THE WICKED DESTROYED, NOT TORTURED

Death, we have seen, is oblivion and destruction, and death is the wages of sin. The term "DESTROY" is often used of the fate of the wicked. After the "few or many stripes" of chastisement, the end of all is destruction.

The popular conception leaves no room for few or many stripes, for it sweepingly gives all the full maximum penalty possible, eternal agony in hell, millions and millions and millions and millions of years for the sins of so brief a lifetime, and this for the overwhelming majority of mankind, for Jesus says (Matt. 7:13) --

"Broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and MANY there be which go in thereat.
"And narrow is the way that leadeth unto life, and FEW there be that find it."

But here again we note that in the Bible it is not eternal torment that is threatened but destruction, which is something very different.

In Matt. 25:46, Jesus says the wicked "go into everlasting punishment," and what this everlasting punishment consists of is explained by Paul (2 Thess. 1:7-9) where he says that when Jesus shall be revealed from heaven, the wicked shall be "punished with everlasting destruction." Again (Heb. 10:27) --
"Judgment and fiery indignation shall devour the adversary."
Jesus says (Matt. 10:28) that God is able to --

• "DESTROY both soul and body in Gehenna."

And Paul told the Philippians (3:19) regarding the fleshly-minded --

• "Their end is destruction."

Peter uses as strong a word as possible when he says (2 Pet. 2:12) --

• "These, as natural brute beasts . . . shall utterly perish in their own corruption."

David declares (Psa. 37:20) --

• "The wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

And Malachi 4:1 --

• "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

Psalm 145:20 --

• "The Lord preserveth all them that love Him, but all the wicked will He destroy."

THE PUNISHMENT OF THE WICKED IS FUTURE

It will have been noted from many of the foregoing quotations that the judgment and punishment of the wicked is connected with a special day IN THE FUTURE, when Christ will return from heaven.

This is important, for it clearly demonstrates the error of the conception of immediate reward or punishment at death. In Matt. 16:27, Jesus says --"For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father, with his angels, THEN shall he reward every man according to his works."

He says in John 5:27-29 --

• "The Father hath given him (Jesus) authority to execute judgment . . . for the hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of condemnation."

Paul declares (2 Tim. 4:1) --

• "He SHALL judge the quick and the dead AT HIS APPEARING and his kingdom."

And again (1 Cor. 4:5) --

• "Judge nothing before the time, UNTIL THE LORD COME, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and THEN shall every man have praise of God."

And Peter (2 Pet. 3:7) speaks of a FUTURE --

• "Day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

The word here translated "perdition" is many times translated "destruction." The future aspect of this judgment, the fact that it is always connected with the day appointed when Jesus will return from heaven to judge and destroy, should be well noted throughout. Paul says (Acts 17:31) --

• "God hath appointed a day in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained."

Malachi says of the same day, and of the destiny of the wicked (4:1-3) --

• "For, behold, the day COMETH, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
  The wicked . . . shall be ashes under the soles of the feet of the righteous IN THE DAY that I shall do this, saith the Lord."

Not eternal torture at death, but complete burning destruction in the day of judgment is the consistent scriptural picture.

One of the biggest inconsistencies of the popular belief is that fact that resurrection and judgment at the last day must be either flatly denied, or else it comes after centuries of bliss in heaven or torture in hell.

Where is the necessity or reason for either resurrection or judgment at the return of Christ if the dead go to their reward at death? It would not only be unnecessary -- it would be plain absurdity!

RESURRECTION

Scriptures say there will be a resurrection, and that it is necessary. We find the day of judgment always associated with resurrection of the dead, and we find resurrection from the grave held out as the only hope of life after death.

Paul devoted 1st Cor. 15 to refuting the contention that there will be no resurrection. He says (vs. 16-18) --

• "If the dead rise not . . . then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished."

And in v. 32, after describing the perils he encounters, he says --

• "What advantageth it me, if the dead rise not?"

His argument is meaningless if men go to heaven at death for their reward. But Paul’s whole hope of reward was centered in resurrection of the last day, as he says in Phil. 3:8-11 --

• "I count all things but loss . . . I have suffered the loss of all things . . . if by any means I might attain unto the RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD."

Jesus said (John 6:39) that all those whom the Father had given him he would --

• "Raise up at the last day."

And in Luke 14:14, he declares that the righteous --

• "Shall be recompensed AT THE RESURRECTION OF THE JUST."

And nowhere do we find either reward or punishment promised before then.
http://www.bereanchristadelphian.com/FirstPrn/hell.htm

 

[TMS]

Like I said, …what people have done to this topic is twisted.
This is my understanding of when, where and how.

People go to hell with physical parts…
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell ..." Mark 9:43 These words of Jesus show that it is the body which goes into the fire, and not some mystical soul. In Matt 5:30 He spoke of the "whole body" being cast into hell. That means hands, feet, eyes, and all the other members of the physical body. They will not go in some ethereal state of formless spirit or soul.

When?
Before or after the judgement?

"Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of the harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them; but gather the wheat into my barn." Matthew 13:29, 30. Now Christ explains the meaning of the parable: "He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." Matthew 13:37-42.

It is so clear Jesus said that the tares represented the wicked people, and that they would be cast into the fire "at the end of the world."
Justice demands that a person be brought into judgment before being punished. Peter declared, "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9. That certainly makes sense, doesn't it?
The wicked are "reserved" until when? Until the "day of judgment." To be what? "To be punished"! This means they cannot be punished before that judgment day. Does the Bible tell where they are reserved until then? Christ Himself said, "Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation." John 5:28, 29.

Matthew 16:27, "For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works." When is "then"? When He comes with His angels.
Daniel wrote that they which "sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt." Daniel 12:2. They are reserved in the grave.

None of the unsaved will be cast into hell-fire until after the second coming of Jesus at the end of the world. John wrote: "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death." Revelation 21:8.
These people die the second death in the fire, but they cannot suffer a second death until they get a second life. They lived the first life in this world and died the first death, going into the grave. Before they can die a second death they must be resurrected-they must be given a second life. This, of course, is what happens at the end of the world. Jesus said, "All that are in the graves shall come forth."


Where is Hell?
2Pe 3:6 “Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. …
2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

The Bible clearly asserts that this fire devours the wicked right here on "the breadth of the earth." Peter states: "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Peter 3:7. Then he goes on to describe the day of the Lord which will melt the very elements with fervent heat.

Isaiah declared, "For it is the day of the Lord's vengeance, and the year of recompenses for the controversy of Zion. And the streams thereof shall be turned into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch." Isaiah 34:8, 9.
Isaiah says this is God's vengeance and "recompense" at the end of the controversy.

David adds "Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire, and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup." Psalm 11:6. Notice that he uses almost the same words as John and Peter in describing the fate of the wicked. All agree as to the place of the punishment (the earth) and the agent of punishment (fire).

How long will the wicked continue to live and suffer in that fire?

No one can answer that question precisely because the Bible says they will be punished according to their works. This means there will be degrees of punishment. Some will suffer longer than others.
So will they live in that fire throughout eternity?

Jesus said, "Blessed are the meek: For they shall inherit the earth." Matthew 5:5. Peter, after describing this earth exploding and burning with a great noise, saw a new earth filled with righteousness. "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13. The wicked cannot continue to live in this planet because it has been specifically promised, in its entirety, to Abraham's spiritual seed (Romans 4:13). After being purged of all the curse of sin, it will be a perfect home for a perfect people.

The Bible says, "The wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23. The wicked are never promised life. They are promised death-eternal death. Only the righteous are promised life-eternal life.

"And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:11, 12. John says, "Ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him." 1 John 3:15.

 

[Magenta]

There are many many many Scriptures that attest to the fact that death is the final everlasting punishment for the person who refuses to accept the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ as a covering for their sin.

The lost perish and are no more.

Strong's concordance word #622 = Perish

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly
Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).HELPS Word-studies

622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).


622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad
that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but
rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which
means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.

Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those
in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27), "the flood came and destroyed them all"
(not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29)
"destroyed them" (not tortured).

John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.

John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has
eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift
of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Note: Death, not eternal torment.

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him,
for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.
Please, note again: Destroy, not torture alive forever.

Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption
(phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.
phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish. The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from
the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,
Destruction, not eternal living torment. The Greek word is olethron: destruction. From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction,
but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the
One who is able to save and to destroy;

2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for
fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient
toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!

Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in
Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ
will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.
How can it be any clearer?

Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.

Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead!

After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead.

Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.

Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.

Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.

Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.

Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:

Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed

Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed

Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing

Following the resurrection and judgement of all is when the mortal put on the
immortal, not before. Then too shall the corruptible put on the incorruptible.
See 1 Corinthians 15:54~ Death will be swallowed up in victory.

In fact, Jesus Christ has already overcome death.
Death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.

 

[Base12]

People go to hell with physical parts…
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell ..."

Oh really?

You mean like KARMA!??!?

It's better to pay off One's Karmic Debt in this life rather than the next?

Doh!

"My Church never taught me that one"

I wonder why?

Mmmm could it be...

SATAN?

 

[Magenta]

"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell ..." Mark 9:43 These words of Jesus show that it is the body which goes into the fire, and not some mystical soul. In Matt 5:30 He spoke of the "whole body" being cast into hell. That means hands, feet, eyes, and all the other members of the physical body. They will not go in some ethereal state of formless spirit or soul.

Surely by the time you die you will have cut off both your hands, severed your feet, and gouged out your eyes. I guess we must also toss all those Scriptures that proclaim that we were formed from the dust of the ground and to dust we shall return... and all the verses proclaiming the dead know nothing. Such a shame, because I love the revealed written Word of God.

Some people don't just butcher it, but turn God into a monster also.

 

[Locutus]

"cut off your hand" is figurative language.

 

[Base12]

which is the second death...

Except when we are talking Reincarnation eh?

Then it's...

"God clearly says we die once!"

 

[Magenta]

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

You don't have a soul, you are a soul. God destroys both body and soul in the second death.

 

[Base12]

and to dust we shall return...

Yeah!

Back into the Womb like God says...

Job 1:21
"And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD"

Reincarnation FTW!

 

[StanJ]

"cut off your hand" is figurative language.

Actually Jesus was being quite literal but the point is that cutting off your hand wouldn't solve the problem because the problem is with one's heart not with one's hand. That is why he said IF.

 

[maxwel]

Bill Wiese has said that he had an experience where God sent him to hell for 23 minutes, his book was 23 minutes in hell. Can this be discussed in this forum, anyone know?

I'm not impressed with any trips to hell unless they're at least 24 minutes.


He was so close.

 

[Magenta]

Except when we are talking Reincarnation eh?

Then it's...

"God clearly says we die once!"

The second death follows the resurrection and judgement of all for the non-believer, all whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life... There is no life between the first death and the second death, according to Scripture.

 

[Locutus]

I'm not impressed with any trips to hell unless they're at least 24 minutes.


He was so close.

That's right, he was only medium rare..

 

[Magenta]

For those about to sever your feet and gouge out your eyes, please do so BEFORE you cut off your hands. Thank you. This has been a public service announcement.

 

[Sirk]

I'm not impressed with any trips to hell unless they're at least 24 minutes.


He was so close.

i was thinking he should at least spend the day there. There are some museums you can't see in a day....and this is hell we're talking about. And there'd be at least a couple a folks I'd have some questions for down there. I wonder if I could get any coherent answers in between all that gnashing of teeth and whatnot.

 

[Trailblazer]

To each their own experience. God actually talked to me when I had my salvation experience. The first thing He said to me was," you must accept My Son as your Savior", and the next thing He did was to explain that heaven and hell were real. The NT sermons were, turn to God and save yourself from the destruction to come. Just my thought, how can one really appreciate being saved if they do not clearly recognize what they are saved from? Jesus died to save us from hell.

Awesome testimonial. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Magenta]

That is because the Womb is also the "Kingdom of God Within"...

Luke 17:21
"Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you"

But of course the haters here will only see my previous post and thus... well you know.

Christians gonna Christian.

Yeah!

Back into the Womb like God says...

Job 1:21
"And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD"

Reincarnation FTW!

No wonder men have womb envy!

 

[TMS]

DEATH, NOT TORTURE, IS THE PUNISHMENT OF SIN

There was no threatened eternal torment,


THE PUNISHMENT OF THE WICKED IS FUTURE

• "Shall be recompensed AT THE RESURRECTION OF THE JUST."

And nowhere do we find either reward or punishment promised before then.
http://www.bereanchristadelphian.com/FirstPrn/hell.htm

Good to see you using scripture to back up what you are saying.

 

[Magenta]

Good to see you using scripture to back up what you are saying.

I guess you have not seen very many of my posts?

I am sorry we won't get to talk to you much longer, what with all the self mutilations you must have planned and will be performing on yourself. I hope you get proper medical care.

 

[maxwel]

i was thinking he should at least spend the day there. There are some museums you can't see in a day....and this is hell we're talking about. And there'd be at least a couple a folks I'd have some questions for down there. I wonder if I could get any coherent answers in between all that gnashing of teeth and whatnot.

Well... he may still have the opportunity.


It's very naughty to make up stories.