HELL

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Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,003
26,138
113
#61
Good to see you using scripture to back up what you are saying.
There are many many many Scriptures that attest to the fact that death is the final everlasting punishment for the person who refuses to accept the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ as a covering for their sin.

The lost perish and are no more.

Strong's concordance word #622 - Perish

apollumi: to destroy, destroy utterly

Original Word: ἀπόλλυμι
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apollumi
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol'-loo-mee)
Short Definition: I destroy, lose, am perishing
Definition: (a) I kill, destroy, (b) I lose, mid: I am perishing (the resultant death being viewed as certain).
HELPS Word-studies

622
apóllymi (from
575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).


622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.

Matt 7:13
Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad
that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.


Matthew 10:28
Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but
rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


Luke 13:3
I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish.
Here, the Greek word for perish is apoleisthe, which
means to utterly destroy, kill, slay, demolish, make void.


Jesus says that the end for the unrighteous will be the same as for those
in the days of Noah (Luke 17:27),
"the flood came and
destroyed them all"
(not tortured). And it will be the same as for Sodom (verse 29)
"destroyed them" (not tortured).


John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

So a person either receives eternal life, or they perish. Nothing about eternal torment there.

John 5:24, Jesus said
"Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has
eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life."


Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift
of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Note: Death, not eternal torment.

1 Corinthians 3:17
If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him,
for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are.

Please, note again: Destroy, not torture alive forever.

Galations 6:8
For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption
(phthoran), but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life.

phthoran: From phtheiro; decay, i.e. Ruin (spontaneous or inflicted, literally or figuratively) -- corruption, destroy, perish. The one who sows to his own flesh reaps destruction, not eternal living torment.

2 Thessalonians 1:9
These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from
the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

Destruction, not eternal living torment. The Greek word is olethron: destruction. From a primary ollumi (to destroy; a prolonged form); ruination, i.e. Death, punishment -- destruction.

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction,
but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.


James 1:15b
and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.

James 4:12a
There is only one Lawgiver and Judge, the
One who is able to save and to destroy
;


2 Peter 3:7
But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for
fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.


2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient
toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

All ungodly men will perish unless they repent.

1 John 5:12
He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
If you are not alive you cannot be tormented!

Jude 5
Now I desire to remind you, though you know all things once for all, that the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe.

Revelation 2:11b
He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.
The living and the dead will be judged on the last day. Those in
Christ will not experience the second death. Those not in Christ
will experience a second death. This second death is their destruction.
How can it be any clearer?


Revelation 17:8
The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction.
The lake of fire was created for the devil and his angels.

Revelation 20:14-15
Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
John interprets this for us: the lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name is not in the book of life, he experiences the second death. This is exactly what it says, death.

Revelation 21:8
“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
They will undergo the second death, which means they are dead!

After the first sin, what was the promised consequence? God said that it was death. God didn't tell them that they would be given eternal life being tormented in hell. If eternal torture in hell is the consequence, it is jarringly missing from any statement by God to Adam and Eve. God even barred Adam and Eve from the garden to prevent them eating from the tree of life and living forever in their state of sin. Paul explains this: Romans 6:23, The wages of sin is death. This is obvious, Paul said what the wages of sin is and it is not to be burned alive forever after you are dead.

Ezekiel 18:4
The soul who sins will die.

Psalm 1:4-6
Not so the wicked!
They are like chaff
that the wind blows away.
Therefore the wicked will not stand in the judgment,
nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.
For the LORD watches over the way of the righteous,
but the way of the wicked leads to destruction.


Psalm 9:5
You have rebuked the nations and destroyed the wicked;
you have blotted out their name for ever and ever.

Psalm 9:6
even the memory of them has perished.

Psalm 34:16
but the face of the LORD is against those who do evil,
to blot out their name from the earth.

Psalm 37:9
For those who are evil will be destroyed,

Psalm 37:20
But the wicked will perish:

Psalm 37:22
those he curses will be destroyed

Psalm 37:28b
Wrongdoers will be completely destroyed

Psalm 37:34
when the wicked are destroyed, you will see it.

Psalm 37:38
But all sinners will be destroyed;
there will be no future for the wicked.

Ecclesiastes 9:5
the dead know nothing

Following the resurrection and judgement of all is when the mortal put on the
immortal, not before. Then too shall the corruptible put on the incorruptible.
See 1 Corinthians 15:54~ Death will be swallowed up in victory.

In fact, Jesus Christ has already overcome death.
Death and Hell will be thrown into the lake of fire.
 
S

StanJ

Guest
#62
Why does One need to die in order to see Hell?

You are looking at it.

Do you people not read your Bibles anymore?

Psalm 139:15
"My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth"


"Lowest parts of the Earth" is Hell.

Period.

No if's ands or buts about it.

Yet we were conceived in it?

I thought we come from a Womb?

BINGO.

Class dismissed.
Because that's what the Bible tells us...Have you not studied this issue?
Psalm 135 is metaphorical not literal and it is what David understood at the time lacking the full Canon of scripture that we have. God doesn't use a pair of knitting needles to make us either.
Hell is clearly identified by Jesus in Luke 16:23-26, and it is a temporary place just as Paradise is.

How about instead of being facetious or sarcastic you just make a point?
 
Mar 2, 2016
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#63
Well... he may still have the opportunity.


It's very naughty to make up stories.
Especially for profit! I mean it's one thing to spin a yarn about a fish that got away, but an entirely other thing to say you went to hell and hung out for the exact amount of time it takes to cook a Digiorno at 400 degrees. Depending on your oven of course.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,572
1,074
113
Australia
#64
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

You don't have a soul, you are a soul. God destroys both body and soul in the second death.
That's what i was trying to say, when i quoted Jesus (mark 9) the second death is complete, physical and spiritual, the soul is destroyed in hell.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,572
1,074
113
Australia
#66
I guess you have not seen very many of my posts? :rolleyes:

I am sorry we won't get to talk to you much longer, what with all the self mutilations you must have planned and will be performing on yourself. I hope you get proper medical care.
Sorry for the complement i gave .
I agree with what i have read so far.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,003
26,138
113
#67
That's what i was trying to say, when i quoted Jesus (mark 9) the second death is complete, physical and spiritual, the soul is destroyed in hell.
Thank you for clarifying. I am sorry I said all that about severing your hands and feet and gouging out your eyes. It bothers me that people take that literally. They may as well be stuck in some backward Islamic country, which I would seriously not wish on anyone. Also, when you said:

... They will not go in some ethereal state of formless spirit or soul.
I may have misunderstood you. Too many say things like we
"have" a soul, when that is not how Scripture describes us.
 
S

StanJ

Guest
#68
That's what i was trying to say, when i quoted Jesus (mark 9) the second death is complete, physical and spiritual, the soul is destroyed in hell.
Nope....Death only relates to our body. The spirit will be tormented in the lake of fire forever. Matt 25:41
 

maxwel

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2013
9,367
2,444
113
#69
Thank you for clarifying. I am sorry I said all that about severing your hands and feet and gouging out your eyes. It bothers me that people take that literally. They may as well be stuck in some backward Islamic country, which I would seriously not wish on anyone. Also, when you said:

I may have misunderstood you. Too many say things like we
"have" a soul, when that is not how Scripture describes us.
I have no idea what this was about... but I just spit up my coffee laughing.

: )
 
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
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#70
Nope....Death only relates to our body. The spirit will be tormented in the lake of fire forever. Matt 25:41
so if God didn't use knitting needles to make me does that mean he won't use fire to torment people in hell?
 
Nov 1, 2016
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#71
God doesn't use a pair of knitting needles to make us either
If my Bible says people are knit together, I believe it 100%.

So sue me.

Colossians 2:19
"And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God"

Judges 20:11
"So all the men of Israel were gathered against the city, knit together as one man"

1 Samuel 18:1
"And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul"

1 Chronicles 12:17
"And David went out to meet them, and answered and said unto them, If ye be come peaceably unto me to help me, mine heart shall be knit unto you: but if ye be come to betray me to mine enemies, seeing there is no wrong in mine hands, the God of our fathers look thereon, and rebuke it"

Acts 10:11
"And saw heaven opened, and a certain vessel descending unto him, as it had been a great sheet knit at the four corners, and let down to the earth"

Colossians 2:2
"That their hearts might be comforted, being knit together in love, and unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding, to the acknowledgement of the mystery of God, and of the Father, and of Christ"

Boy look at me... I'm like the 'Cut and Paste King' tonight.

I wonder if there is a Cut and Paste Queen?

:rolleyes:
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,003
26,138
113
#72
I have no idea what this was about... but I just spit up my coffee laughing.

: )
Gallows humor! Ah, well, thank you for having a sense of humor about it. Though really it is not very funny, is it? People like Islamists take stuff like that literally. They still stone people to death, and chop off hands. That may be the least of it...
 
S

StanJ

Guest
#73
so if God didn't use knitting needles to make me does that mean he won't use fire to torment people in hell?
That's right the language is metaphorical and hyperbolic, it is not literal. How exactly could literal fire affect a spiritual being?
 
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
112
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#74
That's right the language is metaphorical and hyperbolic, it is not literal. How exactly could literal fire affect a spiritual being?
So does that mean Ill get stuck with my ex mother in law if I overstate the size of my fish?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,003
26,138
113
#75
Oh, the literalism game! Such fun on a Friday night. Okay, who can guess who this is?

apple-of-Gods-eye.jpg
 
S

StanJ

Guest
#76
If my Bible says people are knit together, I believe it 100%.

So sue me.
I'd rather instruct you to use a different Bible than the King James version. Try the NIV or NET.
 

88

Senior Member
Nov 14, 2016
3,517
77
48
#77
There is a lot of debate on Hell---I would stick to the Word of God---some want to toast sinners gleefully forever, others say there is no Hell, but the grave---we need to find the truth---what we want or desire in regard to this topic has no effect upon the truth---example---many think they get into Heaven by good works---they feel if they have been a good person and "nice" God will except them---but we know by God's Word this is not true---so check out the Word---study the Word---what does it say about Hell---not only Hell, but the Lake of Fire---Hell is cast into The Lake of Fire in Revelation 20:14---The Second Death is not annihilation (ceasing to exist), but eternal separation from God in the Lake of Fire---the Beast (Anti-Christ) and the False Prophet spend eternity there being tormented forever (Revelation 20:10) (Revelation 20:13-15)****it even says death and Hell gave up their dead for judgment (Revelation 20:11-13)***I agree this sounds terrible---why would God do this? to me the Word seems clear that Hell is real---the Lake of Fire is real--the final judgment is real---that the Second Death is eternal separation from God---that this punishment is day and night forever (Revelation 20:10)***I know whatever God does is just and right---He is Love---debate and scrutinize these Scripture and ideas---I am not taking delight in presenting this message, neither would I feel right taking away from the Word, which brings God's displeasure***what say you???
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
3,572
1,074
113
Australia
#78
Thank you for clarifying. I am sorry I said all that about severing your hands and feet and gouging out your eyes. It bothers me that people take that literally. They may as well be stuck in some backward Islamic country, which I would seriously not wish on anyone. Also, when you said:

I may have misunderstood you. Too many say things like we
"have" a soul, when that is not how Scripture describes us.
I believe (like you said) that we are a living soul (dust and spirit) and scripture dose not support the separation of the soul or spirit from our physical. and i believe that the dead know nothing until their resurrection.