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That's like saying "Child, it's ok to touch fire now, but I plan to wean you off of it at some point." No! You are confusing their sense of right and wrong. We are to be righteous not wrongsious. We are to teach what is right, and train a child in the way they should go- not allow them to go the wrong way with your blessing.
It is simply unacceptable, and infallible in my mind.
It is simply unacceptable, and infallible in my mind.
T
Excactly! I am called to work with Muslims. I know that. And I love that. Yet I haven't seen anyone got saved, but I sow a seed and pray it will grow and bare fruit. That is my calling. I have had more muslim students and pupils than I can count, and many have visited my house. This is a bit special, but we are many that pray for her, and I know she is going to be saved.
I've just started the book, "What every Christian Needs to Inow About the Qur'an" by James White. I also have some other excellent books on leading Muslims to Christ. If you want, I can give you a list.
I think loving and caring for her is the first step. But when she us not with you, you should read up on Islam, so you understand where she is coming from, and how to intelligently deal with her questions and objections.
I will be praying for you, and that the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of who Jesus is to her, and her need to repent, and turn to the real and living Christ!
I think loving and caring for her is the first step. But when she us not with you, you should read up on Islam, so you understand where she is coming from, and how to intelligently deal with her questions and objections.
I will be praying for you, and that the Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of who Jesus is to her, and her need to repent, and turn to the real and living Christ!
She isn't praying to God if she's an idolater. God calls idolatry wickedness. I wouldn't want one of them praying under my roof. I have personal experience with the cursed liar that wants to be exalted as God using the name that Muslims use.
God can change her heart, try praying with persistence and faith that she comes to Christ. Perhaps ask God to put her in great tribulation to put the fear of God in to her. If not, contact your local authority and have her moved to a more appropriate location to live with other idolaters.
God can change her heart, try praying with persistence and faith that she comes to Christ. Perhaps ask God to put her in great tribulation to put the fear of God in to her. If not, contact your local authority and have her moved to a more appropriate location to live with other idolaters.
Then show her what is unacceptable- abusing self or others, worshipping a false god, playing on the freeway, sticking your hand in a fire.
I understand being patient with nonchristians, teaching them, using the power of influence, praying for their soul, but never would I promote, allow, or tolerate the worship of anyone but God! Not even for a second. That's like being patient with an alcoholic, which is fine, but I'm not going to supply them alcohol or allow them to get drunk in my house, even one time- cause that's like promiting it. With something so drastic I am not going to wait for the power of influence. My house- under my roof- no one is going to be allowed to disrespect my God. I would say it in a calm tone, but I would be 100% forcful making sure rule #1 is followed through in my house! "As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord." "Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only!"
It is the worst thing! What if she had sex on your living room floor, or murdered someone in your home? NOTHING is worse than worshipping another god, or allowing your household to worship another god.
I understand being patient with nonchristians, teaching them, using the power of influence, praying for their soul, but never would I promote, allow, or tolerate the worship of anyone but God! Not even for a second. That's like being patient with an alcoholic, which is fine, but I'm not going to supply them alcohol or allow them to get drunk in my house, even one time- cause that's like promiting it. With something so drastic I am not going to wait for the power of influence. My house- under my roof- no one is going to be allowed to disrespect my God. I would say it in a calm tone, but I would be 100% forcful making sure rule #1 is followed through in my house! "As for me and my house we shall serve the Lord." "Worship the Lord your God and serve Him only!"
It is the worst thing! What if she had sex on your living room floor, or murdered someone in your home? NOTHING is worse than worshipping another god, or allowing your household to worship another god.
I really have to wonder how so many posters have missed the Great Commission in this thread?
"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:18-20
The word "Go" in verse 19, is πορευθέντες in Greek. It means "go, proceed, live." So by having this young Muslim girl in their homes, they are actually obeying the command of Jesus. They are "living" the gospel! The OT is full of commands to kill the idolator, and there was a reason. The reason was the immaturity of the Israelites, and their ability to get easily seduced by false gods. This lingers in places in the NT, particularly where immature Gentile Christians are concerned. Except, not to kill these idolaters, but to avoid them.
But for mature Christians, it is a different story! God has commanded us to win the world to Christ, by preaching the gospel. If we never encounter non-Christians, because we isolate ourselves in Christian ghettoes, we are not following the commands of Christ.
Toinena has created the perfect opportunity to share the gospel, first by caring, second by actions, and also by her words! I know Jesus is more pleased with her, than all the isolationists who are afraid to stick their heads out of their little Christian cliques, terrified of being contaminated! Shades of the Pharisees that Jesus detested so much!!
"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” Matt 28:18-20
The word "Go" in verse 19, is πορευθέντες in Greek. It means "go, proceed, live." So by having this young Muslim girl in their homes, they are actually obeying the command of Jesus. They are "living" the gospel! The OT is full of commands to kill the idolator, and there was a reason. The reason was the immaturity of the Israelites, and their ability to get easily seduced by false gods. This lingers in places in the NT, particularly where immature Gentile Christians are concerned. Except, not to kill these idolaters, but to avoid them.
But for mature Christians, it is a different story! God has commanded us to win the world to Christ, by preaching the gospel. If we never encounter non-Christians, because we isolate ourselves in Christian ghettoes, we are not following the commands of Christ.
Toinena has created the perfect opportunity to share the gospel, first by caring, second by actions, and also by her words! I know Jesus is more pleased with her, than all the isolationists who are afraid to stick their heads out of their little Christian cliques, terrified of being contaminated! Shades of the Pharisees that Jesus detested so much!!
Why don't you ask Sweden what it thinks about Muslims? It hasn't turned out so well accepting countless Muslims & blacks who have turned it in to the rape capital of Europe, on par with South Africa.
Let's consult the bible on idolatry
Deuteronomy 13:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
How do you baptize a wicked person? How do you live peacefully with someone who worships God's cursed enemy?
Let's consult the bible on idolatry
Deuteronomy 13:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth;
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such wickedness as this is among you.
How do you baptize a wicked person? How do you live peacefully with someone who worships God's cursed enemy?
"If you bring them the gospel and they will not listen, dust off your shoes and leave."
"As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord."
"I God am a jealous God."
"And she looks after the affairs of her household."
"If anyone brings you another gospel do not even let them into your house."
"As for me and my house, we shall serve the Lord."
"I God am a jealous God."
"And she looks after the affairs of her household."
"If anyone brings you another gospel do not even let them into your house."
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So you are an OT Christian, meaning you do not accept the finished work of Christ on the cross? Because I am reading Deuteronomy right now. It is a book written to the Israelites by Moses, after a very difficult crossing of the the wilderness, after escaping Egypt, with the help of God. God helps them over and over, and over and over they turn to other gods. This is written to a people who had been disobedient to God, made golden calves, not entered the promised land and Moses is warning them to follow God's clear instructions to that people at that time. It is NOT meant to be overlaid on the present, that we should be stoning people who are not saved. It is for God's people, at that time! Not for the lost! And certainly not for someone trying to reach the lost for Christ.
It is NOT written to a strong and mature Christian, whom God has called to witness to Muslims. It is not written to a young teenage girl who has NEVER been a Christian. In no way do these verses address a situation of how to lead a young girl to the Lord, which God has placed on the heart of Toinena.
Context is important. I usually find these egregious Biblical exegetical mistakes are the result of lifting a passage out of context. You have quoted lots of verses in a language that I don't read. But what you have not done, is look at the context of Deuteronomy. Reading the Bible in context is so important, I hope you will learn to do it!
Hard to answer these, when you don't have the addresses! Meaning the book, chapter and verse.
For sure, Joshua is the first quote, and the second is also OT somewhere. Perhaps Prov. 31 for the 3rd quote? Not sure how it applies here, which is a thread about how to witness to the lost. Because Prov. 31 does not address the issue of witnessing to the lost, at all.
The fourth, curiosity lead me to google it and read it in context.
" Anyone who does not remain in Christ’s teaching but goes beyond it, does not have God. The one who remains in that teaching, this one has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your home, and don’t say, “Welcome,” to him; 11 for the one who says, “Welcome,” to him shares in his evil works." 2 John 1:9-11
So, who is this talking about, and to whom is it addressed? Well, obviously to Christians, and especially as a warning concerning those who ave not "remained" in the teachings of Christ. It is talking about a specific situation, and that is a backslidden person bringing another gospel, one which is not the truth. An important warning, for sure.
But, read the whole chapter, and you will find that it is a NOT a warning against bringing young foster children into your home, for fear they are going to turn you into a Muslim.
You know, context is so important! And always, when you find radical teachings like the both of you have posted, that contradict things Jesus has told us, you probably have a hermeneutics issue.
No, Jesus did not say to kick out young teenage Muslim girls out of our homes. Instead, these are the very people Christ died for. This young girl may not be saved. But at least she will have heard the truth, and seen it lived.
Which is more than I can say for the both of you!
P
I'm sorry sis but as someone posted "as for me and my house we shall serve the Lord.
Also we are to occupy until he comes.
It's a tough one but I've been through this also. My daughter in law comes from a Buddhist back ground. Her parents are traditional. My son and her live with me now until they decide on there house to buy or build.
Amazingly she never heard of Christ. So as I set the rules down I witnessed to her in front of my son who has been witnessing also. She attends my family bible study and looks very forward to them. She attends church with us and enjoys it. She has developed a working knowledge of the Lord and reads the bible. She has set aside her traditional beliefs and is in pursuit of knowing Jesus more. She never knew about relationships. I leave it in the hands of the holy spirit and my son to bring her to the point of conversion. Which I know is very soon. She is also sharing with her family about what she has learned. They are very receptive.
On line is truth for life ministry with Alistair begg. He just did a teaching on raising your child in the way they should go. I think you would enjoy it.
Potter
Also we are to occupy until he comes.
It's a tough one but I've been through this also. My daughter in law comes from a Buddhist back ground. Her parents are traditional. My son and her live with me now until they decide on there house to buy or build.
Amazingly she never heard of Christ. So as I set the rules down I witnessed to her in front of my son who has been witnessing also. She attends my family bible study and looks very forward to them. She attends church with us and enjoys it. She has developed a working knowledge of the Lord and reads the bible. She has set aside her traditional beliefs and is in pursuit of knowing Jesus more. She never knew about relationships. I leave it in the hands of the holy spirit and my son to bring her to the point of conversion. Which I know is very soon. She is also sharing with her family about what she has learned. They are very receptive.
On line is truth for life ministry with Alistair begg. He just did a teaching on raising your child in the way they should go. I think you would enjoy it.
Potter
You don't know anything about me.
God would have them stoned to death. And as for having "heard the truth", that won't comfort wicked people in hell. God's enemies heard the truth. So what?
John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
1 John 5:21
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Revelation 9:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Idolaters are going to be killed for wickedness.
If there are 6 billion people left on the earth, then 1/3 of them are going to be killed by the 4 angels.
God would have them stoned to death. And as for having "heard the truth", that won't comfort wicked people in hell. God's enemies heard the truth. So what?
John 3:18
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
1 John 5:21
Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.
Revelation 9:
[SUP]18 [/SUP]By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.
Idolaters are going to be killed for wickedness.
If there are 6 billion people left on the earth, then 1/3 of them are going to be killed by the 4 angels.
Actually, your choice of Bible version, and your choice of Scriptures, especially the way you quote out of context tells me a lot about you. Also, your obsession with idolatry, instead of the Kingdom of God, is very telling!
No one is saying idolators are going to inherit the Kingdom of God. This is black and white. You don't need to prove that to me.
What this thread is about, is God has called someone to be a witness to Muslims. After much prayer, (she has talked about this before) they brought a young, lost Muslim girl into her home. How does she deal with being a witness to Christ, and put boundaries for her religion?
Those are the questions. Everyone knows that idolators go to hell. That is not the issue. The issue is how to effectively witness to Muslims, specifically this one Muslim teenager God has brought into the life of Toinena and her family.
Over and over, the Bible tells us to be witnesses. How can we witness, if we do not know anyone who is not saved? How can we share the gospel in a way, that these people, meaning the lost, will be saved?
Do you even know what the word witness is in Greek? It is μαρτύριον or martyrion, means to testify, to be a witness. Our word "martyr" comes from this Greek word, which means being willing to die for the cause of Christ.
"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria and to the ends of the earth." Acts 1:8
What are we to be witnesses to?
"Seeing what was to come, he spoke of the resurrection of the Messiah, that he was not abandoned to the realm of the dead, nor did his body see decay. 32 God has raised this Jesus to life, and we are all witnesses of it. 33 Exalted to the right hand of God, he has received from the Father the promised Holy Spirit and has poured out what you now see and hear." Acts 2:31-33
“Then he said: ‘The God of our ancestors has chosen you to know his will and to see the Righteous One and to hear words from his mouth. 15 You will be his witness to all people of what you have seen and heard." Acts 22:14-15
"They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. He witnessed to them from morning till evening, explaining about the kingdom of God, and from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets he tried to persuade them about Jesus." Acts 28:23
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]This last verse, Paul has unsaved people coming into his house, "the place where he was staying" so he can witness to them. And not just a slick gospel presentation, but all day - from morning to night. That is exactly what Toinena is doing! Witnessing day and night with this young girl! [/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Are you being a witness to Jesus, raised from the dead? Are you reaching out to the lost, and even taking them into your home, so you can share the gospel with them? Because if you are not a witness, you are not a follower of Christ.[/FONT]
[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]That is what this thread is about! [/FONT]
