Here is another passage for the law/sabbath keepers to explain away........

[royalscot]

Many in the forum are adept at quoting Holy Scripture, and massively, however when they comment on it, it seems they are not understand anything at all.

Oral tradition of the laws was replaced by the written laws of Moses.

Please do not ask for a specifice quote on this because it is "oral" tradition.

Certain Scripture points to this. Abraham believed God. Abraham obeyed God, and except for his slip up with the tree of knowledge, Adam did too.

Let us not leave out Noah.

history of the bible, dose not edit, these people out.
let us, not leave out a new covenent. (death being conquered, forfilled, by jesus christ, not mosses, or noah.)

when did the new ,tell you to go back to the old, if it came through ("oral" tradition. )


23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

 

[Apostol2013]

i wonder why we will have sabbath in the new ?

Isaiah 66:22-23King James Version (KJV)

22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

The problem is the way the sabbath was being observed during the Law of moses it had extreme harshities and in talmudic law the ordinances of the sabbath was endless but God did this that they may learn the importance of aknowledging Him as God shen we Gather on the sabbath and worship and share the word weare doing two things we are edifying each other and aknowledging God as Father and Creator through jesus , the sabbath was ordained at the completion of creation before the fall of man so by faith we understand God finnished creating the world and rested on the seventh day .

 

[royalscot]

The Gentiles were taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ teaches us to learn of Him. He teaches none of the law is abolished, but completed. Paul goes on to say our faith establishes the law. What is established is not abolished or forgotten.

You are partly right in your post. Jesus Christ made all foods clean when teaching nothing by entering the body defiles the body.

Circumcision is past, however we are to be circumcised in the hearts.

As for sacrificial laws, they are all pre-crucifixion since any sacrifice for sin would be a blasphemy of Christ's great, and now only sacrifice for sin.

Any law calling for punishment, even to death, should now be replaced by mercy being extended according to Christ's teaching and Example.

All laws on good conduct are still quite valid and intact.

Paul teaches that the Gospel he preached is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and if any should come preaching another gospel, not that there is one, let him be accursed.

Paul teaches nothing new to Christ's Gospel, so we learn of Him, lest we fall into the hands of hypocrites who weigh heave burdens on you but will not move a finger to lift themselves.

Jesus Christ, the Way, the Truth and the Life, amen.

history proves jesus was sent to a jewish people, under old covenent.

(history proves, your wrong, with time and date, when did he give him a new testament to read)
[SUP]4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me;5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
[/SUP]wait for the promise from the father, pentecost (new covent ,starts here)

acts 10, that was said to the first gentile. that recieved the holy spirit.
(said oral to cornelius)
[SUP]4 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
"I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.36 The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)--37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed.38 You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.39 We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.42 And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[/SUP]
god raised him third day( death being conquered)
[SUP]44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles

the gift, of the holy spirit was poured, out even on gentile, if gentile had been saved he would have known if a gentile, was at pentecost.

when was law given to a gentile(full) again acts 15 proves it.

history proves it, not speculation, to teaching people an old covenent, when it was changed to a new one.

the promise from the father, came from the mouth of jesus (oral)
that why the father gave the holy spirit. as promised. [/SUP]

 

[royalscot]

No council will ever change the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not Jerusalem, not Rome, nowhere..........

but there is difference between a jew, and a gentile. old covenent, and a new covenent. (up to 70 ad.)

did you miss that about acts 15, what law, to give a gentile, the gentiles already believe in jesus christ. or did you miss this again,

 

[royalscot]

Do you not keep the Law? Are you saying that you do not love? Why this stubbornness to follow God's will?

when was law give to a gentile.and when did law save you (saved by promise), and if your a none christain jew, how can the full law of moses be followed without a temple (stone)
if your a christain jew, how can the full law, given to moses be followed without a temple(stone)

the stone, the builders rejected, turn out to be, the most important of all.

 

[royalscot]

That belief requires repentence. It envelops acting on that belief to the point you repent and desire eternal life.

satan believes............

ask cornelius phil, did he repent, if your saved by believing,

[SUP]34 So Peter opened his mouth and said: "Truly I understand that God shows no partiality,35 but in every nation anyone who fears him and does what is right is acceptable to him.36 As for the word that he sent to Israel, preaching good news of peace through Jesus Christ (he is Lord of all),37 you yourselves know what happened throughout all Judea, beginning from Galilee after the baptism that John proclaimed:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.39 And we are witnesses of all that he did both in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They put him to death by hanging him on a tree,40 but God raised him on the third day and made him to appear,41 not to all the people but to us who had been chosen by God as witnesses, who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead.42 And he commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one appointed by God to be judge of the living and the dead.43 To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."
[/SUP]ware was he told to repent.
[SUP]25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian,26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.

[SUP]9 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
[/SUP]
[SUP]just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?
7 Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham.8 And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed."9 So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.
[/SUP]
[/SUP]
what law was given to a gentile, if a new covenent was in place. so how could he repent from a law, that was never given to him. (we read it, in the bible, yet some have miss understood the difference between a jew and a gentile.

[SUP]26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered.28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me." acts 10
[/SUP]

 

[JaumeJ]

There is no difference between Jew and Gentile with God. Even the Good Shepherd teaches He is bringing another flock, Gentiles, to the original flock, Jews and Israel, making them one flock. He teaches the faith of Abraham. He walked the earth, His earth as a Jew, and He is King of the Jews. He is my King; is He yours?


QUOTE=royalscot;1678194]but there is difference between a jew, and a gentile. old covenent, and a new covenent. (up to 70 ad.)

did you miss that about acts 15, what law, to give a gentile, the gentiles already believe in jesus christ. or did you miss this again,[/QUOTE]

 

[JaumeJ]

Please do not be confused by historians, if they do conclude what you say. We are taught from the Word of God, Jesus, by the Holy Spirit. The very same Gospel of Jesus Christ, what He taught and gave to all mankind was, yes, first to the Jews, but then to all Gentiles who would recieve it.

Please do not try to tell me what Jesus teaches to the Jews is not intended for all mankind, otherwise, you have separated His faith from Christianity, that is the faith of Abraham from your version of for whom the Gospel is intended, and this is all mankind, the Jew first and then the Greek.

history proves jesus was sent to a jewish people, under old covenent.

(history proves, your wrong, with time and date, when did he give him a new testament to read)
[SUP]4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me;5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
[/SUP]wait for the promise from the father, pentecost (new covent ,starts here)

acts 10, that was said to the first gentile. that recieved the holy spirit.
(said oral to cornelius)
[SUP]4 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
"I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.36 The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)--37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed.38 You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.39 We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.42 And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[/SUP]
god raised him third day( death being conquered)
[SUP]44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles

the gift, of the holy spirit was poured, out even on gentile, if gentile had been saved he would have known if a gentile, was at pentecost.

when was law given to a gentile(full) again acts 15 proves it.

history proves it, not speculation, to teaching people an old covenent, when it was changed to a new one.

the promise from the father, came from the mouth of jesus (oral)
that why the father gave the holy spirit. as promised. [/SUP]

 

[JaumeJ]

You do not know the covenant with Abraham foretells the coming of Jesus Christ? Look at David, Daniel, Jeremiah, Samuel, Noah, Job, for a few. They knew grace. If you do indeed see, perhaps you will not question the availability of salvation in both Books of books called the Bible. Until you understand this, and that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Tenakh, that is Moses and teh Prophets, correspondance with you is futile. God bless you.

history of the bible, dose not edit, these people out.
let us, not leave out a new covenent. (death being conquered, forfilled, by jesus christ, not mosses, or noah.)

when did the new ,tell you to go back to the old, if it came through ("oral" tradition. )


23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

 

[chubbena]

Do you steal or worship idols ? Why or Why not ? thanks

or better yet, is it alright to have sex with animals? It's in the old law and not mentioned in the NT.

 

[royalscot]

There is no difference between Jew and Gentile with God. Even the Good Shepherd teaches He is bringing another flock, Gentiles, to the original flock, Jews and Israel, making them one flock. He teaches the faith of Abraham. He walked the earth, His earth as a Jew, and He is King of the Jews. He is my King; is He yours?


QUOTE=royalscot;1678194]but there is difference between a jew, and a gentile. old covenent, and a new covenent. (up to 70 ad.)

did you miss that about acts 15, what law, to give a gentile, the gentiles already believe in jesus christ. or did you miss this again,

[/QUOTE]

prove the law was given to a gentile.

[SUP]26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered.28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me." acts 10[/SUP]

is there a difference, is peter in sin or not. or doing what he was told by the holy spirit. ie
when did law tell him to go.
act 15 said a jew has to follow full law( the temple was still there,(stone). when was a gentile in the same temple, jewish church together,
before this date in history, ie new covenent.

 

[JaumeJ]

It pains me to have to say this, but I perceive you are cutting and pasting scripture for scripture's sake with no pertenance to the grain of Biblical doctrine. I must bid you adieu..........


prove the law was given to a gentile.

[SUP]26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered.28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me." acts 10[/SUP]

is there a difference, is peter in sin or not. or doing what he was told by the holy spirit. ie
when did law tell him to go.
act 15 said a jew has to follow full law( the temple was still there,(stone). when was a gentile in the same temple, jewish church together,
before this date in history, ie new covenent.
[/QUOTE]

 

[royalscot]

Please do not be confused by historians, if they do conclude what you say. We are taught from the Word of God, Jesus, by the Holy Spirit. The very same Gospel of Jesus Christ, what He taught and gave to all mankind was, yes, first to the Jews, but then to all Gentiles who would recieve it.

Please do not try to tell me what Jesus teaches to the Jews is not intended for all mankind, otherwise, you have separated His faith from Christianity, that is the faith of Abraham from your version of for whom the Gospel is intended, and this is all mankind, the Jew first and then the Greek.

history prove the date of a new covenet , so dont get confused with the old covenent, that saved no one.
[SUP]11 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."12 But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us---for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"---14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.
[/SUP]
[SUP]act 1 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me;5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
[/SUP]

 

[royalscot]

It pains me to have to say this, but I perceive you are cutting and pasting scripture for scripture's sake with no pertenance to the grain of Biblical doctrine. I must bid you adieu..........


prove the law was given to a gentile.

[SUP]26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I too am a man."27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many persons gathered.28 And he said to them, "You yourselves know how unlawful it is for a Jew to associate with or to visit anyone of another nation, but God has shown me that I should not call any person common or unclean.29 So when I was sent for, I came without objection. I ask then why you sent for me." acts 10[/SUP]

is there a difference, is peter in sin or not. or doing what he was told by the holy spirit. ie
when did law tell him to go.
act 15 said a jew has to follow full law( the temple was still there,(stone). when was a gentile in the same temple, jewish church together,
before this date in history, ie new covenent.

[/QUOTE]

then prove them, wrong. only shows , your failings to follow the scripture, an how your perspective falls short. (royal waves bye. ) thats why thereis a sheild, in the armour, when did you get a spiritual shield, in the old covenent.

 

[chubbena]

The problem is the way the sabbath was being observed during the Law of moses it had extreme harshities and in talmudic law the ordinances of the sabbath was endless but God did this that they may learn the importance of aknowledging Him as God shen we Gather on the sabbath and worship and share the word weare doing two things we are edifying each other and aknowledging God as Father and Creator through jesus , the sabbath was ordained at the completion of creation before the fall of man so by faith we understand God finnished creating the world and rested on the seventh day .

I like - except "but God did this that they may learn the importance of acknowledging Him as God". The extreme harshness and the endless regulations were imposed by man, not Him.

 

[chubbena]

history proves jesus was sent to a jewish people, under old covenent.

(history proves, your wrong, with time and date, when did he give him a new testament to read)
[SUP]4 And while staying with them he ordered them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the promise of the Father, which, he said, "you heard from me;5 for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now."
[/SUP]wait for the promise from the father, pentecost (new covent ,starts here)

acts 10, that was said to the first gentile. that recieved the holy spirit.
(said oral to cornelius)
[SUP]4 Opening his mouth, Peter said:
"I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.36 The word which He sent to the sons of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ (He is Lord of all)--37 you yourselves know the thing which took place throughout all Judea, starting from Galilee, after the baptism which John proclaimed.38 You know of Jesus of Nazareth, how God anointed Him with the Holy Spirit and with power, and how He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him.39 We are witnesses of all the things He did both in the land of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They also put Him to death by hanging Him on a cross.40 God raised Him up on the third day and granted that He become visible,41 not to all the people, but to witnesses who were chosen beforehand by God, that is, to us who ate and drank with Him after He arose from the dead.42 And He ordered us to preach to the people, and solemnly to testify that this is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead.43 Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of sins."
[/SUP]
god raised him third day( death being conquered)
[SUP]44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles

the gift, of the holy spirit was poured, out even on gentile, if gentile had been saved he would have known if a gentile, was at pentecost.

when was law given to a gentile(full) again acts 15 proves it.

history proves it, not speculation, to teaching people an old covenent, when it was changed to a new one.

the promise from the father, came from the mouth of jesus (oral)
that why the father gave the holy spirit. as promised. [/SUP]

Two questions regarding Cornelius.
Was he respected by the Jews because he never kept the law?
Did he reject the law after he received the Holy Spirit?

 

[john832]

I like - except "but God did this that they may learn the importance of acknowledging Him as God". The extreme harshness and the endless regulations were imposed by man, not Him.

And herein lies the problem. The Jews went into captivity and lost their home land for two major sins...

Eze 20:16 because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols.
Eze 20:17 Nevertheless My eye spared them from destruction. I did not make an end of them in the wilderness.
Eze 20:18 "But I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols.
Eze 20:19 I am the LORD your God: Walk in My statutes, keep My judgments, and do them;
Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.'
Eze 20:21 "Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness.

Eze 20:42 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for which I raised My hand in an oath to give to your fathers.
Eze 20:43 And there you shall remember your ways and all your doings with which you were defiled; and you shall loathe yourselves in your own sight because of all the evils that you have committed.
Eze 20:44 Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have dealt with you for My name's sake, not according to your wicked ways nor according to your corrupt doings, O house of Israel," says the Lord GOD.' "

Idolatry and Sabbath breaking. So the Pharisees and the scribes came up with laws that were not God's Law, they were safeguards to keep the people from getting even close to breaking the Law so that they would not suffer those punishments again. They were extremely strict and harsh.

God never intended this and you cannot find in scripture what a 'Sabbath Day's journey' is nor can you find how much weight a person may carry, nor can you find anything about eating a few grains of wheat to be considered 'threshing grain' on the Sabbath...

Mat 12:1 At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. And His disciples were hungry, and began to pluck heads of grain and to eat.
Mat 12:2 And when the Pharisees saw it, they said to Him, "Look, Your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath!"
Mat 12:3 But He said to them, "Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, he and those who were with him:
Mat 12:4 how he entered the house of God and ate the showbread which was not lawful for him to eat, nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests?
Mat 12:5 Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?
Mat 12:6 Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple.
Mat 12:7 But if you had known what this means, 'I DESIRE MERCY AND NOT SACRIFICE,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.
Mat 12:8 For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

They were accusing the disciples of threshing grain on the Sabbath. They knew picking a few ears of grain to eat in another persons field was perfectly acceptable...

Deu 23:25 When you come into your neighbor's standing grain, you may pluck the heads with your hand, but you shall not use a sickle on your neighbor's standing grain.

Funny thing is, those of us who keep God's Sabbath understand this, it is the faith only crowd that applies the Pharisaical rules to the Sabbath.

 

[LEPIDUS]

Funny thing is, those of us who keep God's Sabbath understand this, it is the faith only crowd that applies the Pharisaical rules to the Sabbath.

Correct make it about technicalities, when its about doing what is lawful during The Sabbath. They keep saying they keep the new commandments of Jesus given in the NT love God with all your heart mind soul and love your neighbor as yourself but keep missing the next part he says in these two commandments DEPEND all the law and the prophets.

 

[john832]

Correct make it about technicalities, when its about doing what is lawful during The Sabbath. They keep saying they keep the new commandments of Jesus given in the NT love God with all your heart mind soul and love your neighbor as yourself but keep missing the next part he says in these two commandments DEPEND all the law and the prophets.

They also seem to miss these scriptures...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Keeping all the Commandments is loving God and is God's love.

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER," "YOU SHALL NOT STEAL," "YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS," "YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Keeping the last six is loving your neighbor as yourself.

 

[LEPIDUS]

They also seem to miss these scriptures...

1Jn 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.
1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Keeping all the Commandments is loving God and is God's love.

Rom 13:9 For the commandments, "YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY," "YOU SHALL NOT MURDER," "YOU SHALL NOT STEAL," "YOU SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS," "YOU SHALL NOT COVET," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF."

Keeping the last six is loving your neighbor as yourself.

As if not keeping them they somehow love God and their neighbors like he wants them too. I think it is impossible to say we love God and our neighbors and not keep the commandments.