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Apostolic Tradition...
Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? Not according to the Bible. While we must guard against merely human tradition, the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition.
Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2),
and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).
To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2).
In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.
The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously, as the following quotations show.
Papias
"Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he, moreover, asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly, he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition" (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).
Eusebius of Caesarea
"At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition" (Church History 4:21).
Origen
"Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2 [A.D. 225]).
Athanasius
"Again we write, again keeping to the apostolic traditions, we remind each other when we come together for prayer; and keeping the feast in common, with one mouth we truly give thanks to the Lord. Thus giving thanks unto him, and being followers of the saints, ‘we shall make our praise in the Lord all the day,’ as the psalmist says. So, when we rightly keep the feast, we shall be counted worthy of that joy which is in heaven" (Festal Letters 2:7 [A.D. 330]).
"But you are blessed, who by faith are in the Church, dwell upon the foundations of the faith, and have full satisfaction, even the highest degree of faith which remains among you unshaken. For it has come down to you from apostolic tradition, and frequently accursed envy has wished to unsettle it, but has not been able" (ibid., 29).
More: Apostolic Tradition
Peace
Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? Not according to the Bible. While we must guard against merely human tradition, the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition.
Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2),
and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).
To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2).
In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.
The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously, as the following quotations show.
Papias
"Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he, moreover, asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly, he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition" (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).
Eusebius of Caesarea
"At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition" (Church History 4:21).
Origen
"Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2 [A.D. 225]).
Athanasius
"Again we write, again keeping to the apostolic traditions, we remind each other when we come together for prayer; and keeping the feast in common, with one mouth we truly give thanks to the Lord. Thus giving thanks unto him, and being followers of the saints, ‘we shall make our praise in the Lord all the day,’ as the psalmist says. So, when we rightly keep the feast, we shall be counted worthy of that joy which is in heaven" (Festal Letters 2:7 [A.D. 330]).
"But you are blessed, who by faith are in the Church, dwell upon the foundations of the faith, and have full satisfaction, even the highest degree of faith which remains among you unshaken. For it has come down to you from apostolic tradition, and frequently accursed envy has wished to unsettle it, but has not been able" (ibid., 29).
More: Apostolic Tradition
Peace
Re: Apostolic Tradition...
Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? Not according to the Bible. While we must guard against merely human tradition, the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition.
Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2),
and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).
To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2).
In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.
The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously, as the following quotations show.
Papias
"Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he, moreover, asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly, he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition" (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).
Eusebius of Caesarea
"At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition" (Church History 4:21).
Origen
"Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2 [A.D. 225]).
Athanasius
"Again we write, again keeping to the apostolic traditions, we remind each other when we come together for prayer; and keeping the feast in common, with one mouth we truly give thanks to the Lord. Thus giving thanks unto him, and being followers of the saints, ‘we shall make our praise in the Lord all the day,’ as the psalmist says. So, when we rightly keep the feast, we shall be counted worthy of that joy which is in heaven" (Festal Letters 2:7 [A.D. 330]).
"But you are blessed, who by faith are in the Church, dwell upon the foundations of the faith, and have full satisfaction, even the highest degree of faith which remains among you unshaken. For it has come down to you from apostolic tradition, and frequently accursed envy has wished to unsettle it, but has not been able" (ibid., 29).
More: Apostolic Tradition
Peace
That's fine, we are meant to keep the traditions that Jesus and the Apostles taught us.
We should keep away from the traditions of men like the Pharisee.
Is Scripture the sole rule of faith for Christians? Not according to the Bible. While we must guard against merely human tradition, the Bible contains numerous references to the necessity of clinging to apostolic tradition.
Thus Paul tells the Corinthians, "I commend you because you remember me in everything and maintain the traditions even as I have delivered them to you" (1 Cor. 11:2),
and he commands the Thessalonians, "So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).
He even goes so far as to order, "Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you keep away from any brother who is living in idleness and not in accord with the tradition that you received from us" (2 Thess. 3:6).
To make sure that the apostolic tradition would be passed down after the deaths of the apostles, Paul told Timothy, "[W]hat you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also" (2 Tim. 2:2).
In this passage he refers to the first four generations of apostolic succession—his own generation, Timothy’s generation, the generation Timothy will teach, and the generation they in turn will teach.
The early Church Fathers, who were links in that chain of succession, recognized the necessity of the traditions that had been handed down from the apostles and guarded them scrupulously, as the following quotations show.
Papias
"Papias [A.D. 120], who is now mentioned by us, affirms that he received the sayings of the apostles from those who accompanied them, and he, moreover, asserts that he heard in person Aristion and the presbyter John. Accordingly, he mentions them frequently by name, and in his writings gives their traditions [concerning Jesus]. . . . [There are] other passages of his in which he relates some miraculous deeds, stating that he acquired the knowledge of them from tradition" (fragment in Eusebius, Church History 3:39 [A.D. 312]).
Eusebius of Caesarea
"At that time [A.D. 150] there flourished in the Church Hegesippus, whom we know from what has gone before, and Dionysius, bishop of Corinth, and another bishop, Pinytus of Crete, and besides these, Philip, and Apollinarius, and Melito, and Musanus, and Modestus, and, finally, Irenaeus. From them has come down to us in writing, the sound and orthodox faith received from tradition" (Church History 4:21).
Origen
"Although there are many who believe that they themselves hold to the teachings of Christ, there are yet some among them who think differently from their predecessors. The teaching of the Church has indeed been handed down through an order of succession from the apostles and remains in the churches even to the present time. That alone is to be believed as the truth which is in no way at variance with ecclesiastical and apostolic tradition" (The Fundamental Doctrines 1:2 [A.D. 225]).
Athanasius
"Again we write, again keeping to the apostolic traditions, we remind each other when we come together for prayer; and keeping the feast in common, with one mouth we truly give thanks to the Lord. Thus giving thanks unto him, and being followers of the saints, ‘we shall make our praise in the Lord all the day,’ as the psalmist says. So, when we rightly keep the feast, we shall be counted worthy of that joy which is in heaven" (Festal Letters 2:7 [A.D. 330]).
"But you are blessed, who by faith are in the Church, dwell upon the foundations of the faith, and have full satisfaction, even the highest degree of faith which remains among you unshaken. For it has come down to you from apostolic tradition, and frequently accursed envy has wished to unsettle it, but has not been able" (ibid., 29).
More: Apostolic Tradition
Peace
We should keep away from the traditions of men like the Pharisee.
T
If our best friends have to be inspired by G-d's word than we can trust St.Augustine. I mean really, you went through all that writing for nothing?
Of course not and neither is the bible going to save me, only G-d. The news has everything to do with what we are talking about because you said we can't trust anyone, not even historians etc.
I am aware of why the Jews killed him. Believe me, I research things.
T
REQUOTE:
this too.. They don;t want to hang out with christian friends, because then I have to be something i am not. or miss out on the things I want.
when we should want these things..
Twist your words? I honestly don't see how. What you said, shows that we are of the world because we have non-christian friends. Unless you meant something totally different from what you said.
E
REQUOTE:
Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull
this too.. They don;t want to hang out with christian friends, because then I have to be something i am not. or miss out on the things I want.
when we should want these things..
Twist your words? I honestly don't see how. What you said, shows that we are of the world because we have non-christian friends. Unless you meant something totally different from what you said.
this too.. They don;t want to hang out with christian friends, because then I have to be something i am not. or miss out on the things I want.
when we should want these things..
Twist your words? I honestly don't see how. What you said, shows that we are of the world because we have non-christian friends. Unless you meant something totally different from what you said.
7
Wow, brother, you are an inspiration and I am blessed to have met you. The only reason I asked you of your opinion on what bible you would recommend to me if I was to be a sola-scriptura based Christian was to really see what you would recommend. And as far as your faith goes, brother, you relationship with Christ is beautiful and by the sounds of it, unwavered. For me, I don't see how sola-scriptura could make sense, as there have been so many translations and versions and there's almost no way of knowing which one has been translated correctly. In saying that, it doesn't mean that I'm judging anyone. I'm just giving my opinion. But putting all this aside, as far as far as the love a true follower of Christ should show, it can be seen in you, brother. We need to all remember before we start throwing hurtful and judgmental comments at each other, that we all have our own relationship with Christ, and NONE OF US are in a position to tell another that they are not welcome in the kingdom of God. You remind me alot of my sister, who is also non-denominational. I rarely come accross people with faith like her's or people that show love like she does, whether they be Catholic, Protestant, or whatever. My reason for being a Catholic is because I can truly see the fullness in Christ in Her. But I can't see myself getting into heaven before you, my brother. Peace and love always,
Charlie
Charlie
That is until you say something about their football team or something they feel strongly about and it is a different matter altogether. People can say whatever they like about football and it won't bother me one little bit, but say something that someone is passionate about and they get a little bit touchy.
7
lol Don't say that brother. You're wrong. I really have friends, who see no point in being a Christian, and show more love than alot of people in here, and don't get angry over football teams. They just say you don't have to be a Christian to be good (and I must say, I agree). It's quite the opposite to how alot of people in here say that you have to be a Christian to get to heaven then pass judgment on everyone lol. Gee whizz, I wonder who really would get to heaven first!! Really nice love-filled non-christian, or judgmental bitter Christians who consider themselves righteous???
I know unbelievers can be brilliant but on here I wouldn't say people are being judgmental but are thinking about scripture that tells us to repent and accept the Lord Jesus Christ as our saviour.
So many people seem to think that being baptised into the church as an infant and living a 'good' life is sufficient. Is that what the Catholic Church teaches?
So many people seem to think that being baptised into the church as an infant and living a 'good' life is sufficient. Is that what the Catholic Church teaches?
7
HAHAHAHAHAHA STRAIGHT BACK TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!!! And pay attention, buddy. People ARE being judgmental. Not everyone, but alot of people. And no, that is not what the Catholic Church teaches. She doesn't teach by ANY MEANS that it is easy to get into heaven, like so many others think, including Catholics, contrary to what their Church teaches. But anyway, the topic was non-christians not being good because they were non-christians. I'm not sure if you were being judgmental or not, but it was borderline, and you were wrong anyway. Peace, brother.
7
Actually that's happened to me before and I laughed, but if you knew that they weren't going to give you the right directions, why would you ask them anyway? However, on the other hand, what if that same person couldn't give you right directions but were really good football players and you really felt like playing football! Would you not invite them to play because they couldn't help with directions?
It has happened to me as well, in fact one guy told me he was going that way and he would show me. So he got into the car and he showed me the way, right to his house.
Quite honestly I wouldn't want to play football with that guy, but if someone made a genuine mistake then fine, we all make mistakes and I have made my fair share, but what I have noticed is that if you do a poor job of something and the person likes you then it will be fine, but on the other hand if you aren't liked then it doesn't matter how brilliant a job you do, there will always be a problem.
So my question to you is, if you wanted to know something would you go to someone you like or would you go to to the source?
Quite honestly I wouldn't want to play football with that guy, but if someone made a genuine mistake then fine, we all make mistakes and I have made my fair share, but what I have noticed is that if you do a poor job of something and the person likes you then it will be fine, but on the other hand if you aren't liked then it doesn't matter how brilliant a job you do, there will always be a problem.
So my question to you is, if you wanted to know something would you go to someone you like or would you go to to the source?