homosexuals, did God make them that way from birth?

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Dec 1, 2012
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What more can I say? I've never been to a universalist church. Nor have I met any universalists, and yet you still call me by this label.

You believe in Jesus, and that He died for the sins of the world. And yet you are ADAMANT that He will fail in what He came to do.

You believe, and so do devils! What gives you the edge, belief?
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Romans 8:28-29
28*And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29*For whom he did foreknow (being us all ex. Jeremiah, pharaoh), he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
and that has to do with this how?

Re: homosexuals, did God make them that way from birth?

remember your previous posts.
or not. i dunno what you're even bothering for, really.

"he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son" < think carefully about your weird ideas of homosexuals being female spirits and so on.

better be careful.

"among many brethren" < also, you might want to erase that word many and make it all (?)

edit: oh of course....i don't know how i missed this: "For whom he did foreknow (being us all ex. Jeremiah, pharaoh)"

anyways....you're still not making sense (except in a groovy kinda gnostic way)
z-z-z-z-z-z
 
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zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
164
63
What more can I say? I've never been to a universalist church. Nor have I met any universalists, and yet you still call me by this label.
will every man woman and child who was ever born and died be saved?
how about satan?
 
Dec 1, 2012
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will every man woman and child who was ever born and died be saved?
how about satan?
Satan is only the carnal mind contained in the flesh. It can only eat of the dust of the earth, meaning it can only understand earthly things. This is what must be crucified in every man woman and child, as they judge by appearances.

This is why my message is foolishness to you. Satan is a false spirit, meaning something that we give life to. Things that have neither the power to save or destroy. It is a spirit of error and blindness given to men to teach what NOT to do in the kingdom. Zone, you must be destroyed in the flesh, as we all share in common; no matter what we believe, go through or how we live. That is the one sign given to this evil generation, who CONTINUE to look for signs!

This covering cast, which is the flesh (male, female, jew, gentile, black, white, rich, poor etc.) is the one that was lost! We are all children of deduction as NO FLESH AND BLOOD SHALL ENTER THE KINGDOM OF GOD.

We after Christ has died, having this knowledge that those before did not, we commit worser abominations than them.

Remember Sodom will be more justified than us!

If God gives you life and breath, then who gives it to those whom you do not see saved?

Is not Christ the light of EVERY MAN who enters the world?
 
Dec 1, 2012
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and that has to do with this how?

Re: homosexuals, did God make them that way from birth?

remember your previous posts.
or not. i dunno what you're even bothering for, really.

"he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son" < think carefully about your weird ideas of homosexuals being female spirits and so on.

better be careful.

"among many brethren" < also, you might want to erase that word many and make it all (?)

edit: oh of course....i don't know how i missed this: "For whom he did foreknow (being us all ex. Jeremiah, pharaoh)"

anyways....you're still not making sense (except in a groovy kinda gnostic way)
z-z-z-z-z-z
Again do you not understand that the MANY who go in by the wide path to destruction are those that are now dead in trespasses? Remember the FEW who found life (abraham, isaac, jacob) need no physician. THEY WERE LIVING!

Jesus WAS NOT of the FEW, meaning HE DIED AS A TRANSGRESSOR! He was the first born among the DEAD and indeed the many.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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Again do you not understand that the MANY who go in by the wide path to destruction are those that are now dead in trespasses? Remember the FEW who found life (abraham, isaac, jacob) need no physician. THEY WERE LIVING!

Jesus WAS NOT of the FEW, meaning HE DIED AS A TRANSGRESSOR! He was the first born among the DEAD and indeed the many.


uh...okay....i'll just put the shoe down and back away now....bye
have a nice life.
 
Dec 1, 2012
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uh...okay....i'll just put the shoe down and back away now....bye
have a nice life.
I guess it's ok to ridicule to hide the fact that you can neither understand nor answer any of the questions I asked.

You can save the kiddie remarks. What are you, like 60?

You sound like my children.
 
S

StGiles

Guest
Why is it that a discussion on Homosexuality rapidly degrades into a discussion that brings pedophiles and sex offenders into the same group.


Homosexuality is a preference for someone of your own gender.

being a pedophile is having sexual desires for a person who is a child.

sex offender is someone who commits a sexual offence.


3 separate discussions

Homosexuality in itself is not the sin the sin would be having a sexual relationship/relationships. so the way forwards for anyone within the Christian community who is born homosexual is to make choices in their lives not to have any sexual relationships as others have said to remain celibate.

Even if a pedophile does not act upon his/her desire to have a sexual relationship the carnal thought continues. so by that definition must be a sinner

a sex offender mmmm difficult one because what in the UK would be a sexual crime say having sex with a 14 year old may be within the law somewhere else as a couple could legally marry so for me it would be based on the intent as well as the law.
 
X

xtinaz

Guest
Ask the HOly Spirit to give you revelation and truth :)
 
Dec 6, 2012
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I am out of. My Biblical league. Here yet I have to say yes all have sinned & sin, some sins go up & can be seen as a puff of smoke can be visably seen, others hide their sins. Now what I beleave ( my two cents, if it matters) is what do you do with your sins ... confess them to God, repent & Turn away from your sins, or feel shame for your sins or do you, make excuses, & continue on in your sin, just because you can't seem to find a. Way not to stop repeating your sin... now who of these two which can stand before. God himself shameless, the one that confess,& prayed, striving for change with grace. Mercy. Blood of christ, & salvation, or the
one who only hopes & waits...relying on gods goodness to save him while not growing in fruitfulness. Well that is my dpiritualy young two cents... hope I have not offended or posted out of turn.
you are not out of your biblical league at all. in fact you touch on something that few ever get the privilege to notice.

Men generally sin out of ignorance. If I teach another that something is not a sin, which is, then they do what they BELIEVE is righteous, even though it is a sinful thing that they partake in.

This is a very important thing here. Not one person knows all the sins of which they partake, because even thoughts can be sins. 'He who hates his brother commits murder in his heart'.

So then it bears a great deal of logic that God looks at the heart.

Prime example: A young child who is brought up being told 'its not a sin to strike out if someone has hit you first'.

These things can be backed up by twisting the eye for eye teachings, for instance. The child feels they are biblically and morally correct in front of God by what they do, yet in reality they are commiting an act of sin.

Is it fair to assume then that they will be PUNISHED for that sin? Or have it 'revisited upon them', ie. Be made AWARE of it?

What logic is there in punishment for unwittingly sinning.

This is backed up by the parts of the bible whereby Jesus forgives the unwitting. Even his own tormentors.

In our awareness of accidental wrongs which are shown to us in Godly light (a type of sight which cannot be denied 'AS IN A MIRROR') the human reaction would be sorrow and guilt, and the end result of knowing the sin so thoroughly that it no longer even pays to consider such an act. It is not in the slightest beneficial to anyone.

The point I'm trying to make is that even if one 'searches for God' and is counted by humans as having 'repented for their sins' outwardly where others can see, you can never be sure of the MIND of someone.

Inward sorrow and guilt are just as valid, if not more valid, than an outward profession of sorrow and guilt. Does that make sense?

So it is then important to be aware of one's OWN logs, rather than the perceived specks of others. Because the depths of the mind/heart are something only God (and partly the person who owns the heart and mind) know enough to be right judges.
 
M

MaggieMye

Guest
Hos 4:6 Their LACK of the 'knowledge of God" (See Eph 1:17) is what is hindering them from understanding truth. This is a SPIRITUAL lack, not necessarily an intellectual one...although they are related to a point. This type of 'lack of knowledge' comes through iniquity as well as generational curses AND willful...WILFUL disobedience.
They now have medical/scientific proof that "continued deviant behavior CHANGES the chemical make-up of the brain...NOT the other way around which is what the Gay movement wants the public to believe...another lie.

Of the sixty-five occurrences of the word in the Old Testament, five refer to something as being an abomination to another people. Thirteen of the things labeled "abominations" are dietary restrictions, the observation of which would bar a person from consuming such things as clam chowder, shrimp and, one of my favorites, the non-existent four-legged insect, which certainly refers to something besides what we call "insects". Yes, and in Acts 10:13-15 GOD Himself removes that labeling of 'abomination' over any edible thingSeventeen refer to improper sacrifice, although I am hard pressed to think of a single Christian (or Jewish, for that matter) congregation that slaughters animals on their altars these days.When, in truth, the Jewish people SHOULD be sacrificing animals because they hav NOT accepted the shed blood of Christ as payment for their sins and are still living according to the OT. Outright adultery and adultery cause by divorce, which is prohibited by the Bible even though it is a widespread practice today, account for three of the verses.And nothing has changed; adultery is still sin and God Still does not like divorce. In addition to Jesus's comment in Luke, the love of money is decried as an abomination in two Old Testament passages. Four related verses cite dishonest trading practices as abominations. Twelve other verses list behaviors ranging from murder to women wearing "anything that pertains to a man" (for example, pants)If you do the research, you will find that it was women who first wore pants.. Eight passages, including the one from Revelation, are not clear about what they mean by "abomination." Precisely two refer to homosexual behavior.what is your point here? That because there are only two in the OT that refer to homosexuality, it is a 'lesser sin'? Consider the REITERATION of that OT commandment in the NT found in Romans 1:26!! Verses in the OT pertaining to sodomy (the OT word for homosexuality): Genesis 19:5-8; Exodus 22:19; Leviticus 18:22,23;20:13,15,16;

Never mind the dietary ones,their next thing to point out is about clothing made from diverse fibers,which under the mosaic law is an abomination also.That is LEVITICAL law. See Lev 19:19)
This is a excellent answer I found to address this: "Why is wearing two different types of fabric a sin?
Ok it says in Leviticus. I hear people say thats only for the Jews. But where does the Bible say its only for the Jews? It also says in Leviticus that lying with another man is abomination. So that must also only be for Jews. How do Christians justify breaking a ton of rules in the Bible but decide to keep a select few? Christians also aren't supposed to eat pork, and Jesus never denounced that law despite what people say.
5 months ago Report Abuse

Ernest S Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Your question is full of gross ignorance and therefore it is difficult to answer.

It is a pity that you do not read the Bible for yourself for then perhaps you would be able to ask a clearer question.


Firstly it does not say not to wear different types of fabric on the skin.

The restriction was upon a woolen and linen mixture.

These requirements were only given to the children of Israel who were called out to be holy and to bear the Saviour, the Messiah.

All of the Mosaic Law was but a shadow to illustrate the reality to come. There were physical requirements to illustrate spiritual truth.


To focus upon your original question. Wool keeps warm and can cause sweat, which speaks of man's work and works which are required under the Law.
Linen is a covering of the flesh that does not cause sweat and represents righteousness to cover sin, and the only righteousness acceptable to God is that given by God through faith in His work.

The clothing was not to be mixed with wool and linen because what they represent are contradictory. Wool represents Law and Linen represents Grace. Law cannot be mixed with Grace without spiritually fatal results, therefore wool was not to be mixed with linen." at Why is wearing two different types of fabric a sin? - Yahoo! Answers
If one can keep up with this then they will point out Paul was a Pharisee,Paul never uses the word abomination.Irrelevant. That could very simply be a language issue. Then the next question is why didn't he use it if it is still an abomination? You must remember that Paul's heart's desire was to please the Lord. Coming down in a harsh manner would not benefit the Kingdom in the manner in which God desired. Consider the letters that Paul wrote to each one of them. He was fully able to clearly inform them of the displeasure they were bringing to the Lord without using that word. so again...that Paul did not say "abomination' is irrelevant.
(Remember the restrictions on the dietary laws were removed,so the thinking is if those were removed why not this also if the word abomination is no longer used in the New Testament) Jesus speaks of the abomination of desolation which means "the abomination that brings desolation" so reset your thinking on that one and John talks about Mystery Babylon. Consider what the word 'mystery' means; darkness, unknown, secrets. what does either of these have to do with sodomy STILL being an abomination/sin?? ...all sins ARE abominations to God, BTW...
Maggie
 

know1

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2012
3,071
166
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Please don't describe it like that. Just because I like guys does not mean I am a woman within. Believe me I am a guy. I may not like or do some things that other guys do and I may like or do things that women do, but I am still a guy, in spirit and body.
I'm sorry, but I don't have time to give a proper response to your post. I will though when I get the time.
 
Dec 26, 2012
5,853
137
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Hos 4:6 Their LACK of the 'knowledge of God" (See Eph 1:17) is what is hindering them from understanding truth. This is a SPIRITUAL lack, not necessarily an intellectual one...although they are related to a point. This type of 'lack of knowledge' comes through iniquity as well as generational curses AND willful...WILFUL disobedience.
They now have medical/scientific proof that "continued deviant behavior CHANGES the chemical make-up of the brain...NOT the other way around which is what the Gay movement wants the public to believe...another lie.

Of the sixty-five occurrences of the word in the Old Testament, five refer to something as being an abomination to another people. Thirteen of the things labeled "abominations" are dietary restrictions, the observation of which would bar a person from consuming such things as clam chowder, shrimp and, one of my favorites, the non-existent four-legged insect, which certainly refers to something besides what we call "insects". Yes, and in Acts 10:13-15 GOD Himself removes that labeling of 'abomination' over any edible thingSeventeen refer to improper sacrifice, although I am hard pressed to think of a single Christian (or Jewish, for that matter) congregation that slaughters animals on their altars these days.When, in truth, the Jewish people SHOULD be sacrificing animals because they hav NOT accepted the shed blood of Christ as payment for their sins and are still living according to the OT. Outright adultery and adultery cause by divorce, which is prohibited by the Bible even though it is a widespread practice today, account for three of the verses.And nothing has changed; adultery is still sin and God Still does not like divorce. In addition to Jesus's comment in Luke, the love of money is decried as an abomination in two Old Testament passages. Four related verses cite dishonest trading practices as abominations. Twelve other verses list behaviors ranging from murder to women wearing "anything that pertains to a man" (for example, pants)If you do the research, you will find that it was women who first wore pants.. Eight passages, including the one from Revelation, are not clear about what they mean by "abomination." Precisely two refer to homosexual behavior.what is your point here? That because there are only two in the OT that refer to homosexuality, it is a 'lesser sin'? Consider the REITERATION of that OT commandment in the NT found in Romans 1:26!! Verses in the OT pertaining to sodomy (the OT word for homosexuality): Genesis 19:5-8; Exodus 22:19; Leviticus 18:22,23;20:13,15,16;

Never mind the dietary ones,their next thing to point out is about clothing made from diverse fibers,which under the mosaic law is an abomination also.That is LEVITICAL law. See Lev 19:19)
This is a excellent answer I found to address this: "Why is wearing two different types of fabric a sin?
Ok it says in Leviticus. I hear people say thats only for the Jews. But where does the Bible say its only for the Jews? It also says in Leviticus that lying with another man is abomination. So that must also only be for Jews. How do Christians justify breaking a ton of rules in the Bible but decide to keep a select few? Christians also aren't supposed to eat pork, and Jesus never denounced that law despite what people say.
5 months ago Report Abuse

Ernest S Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Your question is full of gross ignorance and therefore it is difficult to answer.

It is a pity that you do not read the Bible for yourself for then perhaps you would be able to ask a clearer question.


Firstly it does not say not to wear different types of fabric on the skin.

The restriction was upon a woolen and linen mixture.

These requirements were only given to the children of Israel who were called out to be holy and to bear the Saviour, the Messiah.

All of the Mosaic Law was but a shadow to illustrate the reality to come. There were physical requirements to illustrate spiritual truth.


To focus upon your original question. Wool keeps warm and can cause sweat, which speaks of man's work and works which are required under the Law.
Linen is a covering of the flesh that does not cause sweat and represents righteousness to cover sin, and the only righteousness acceptable to God is that given by God through faith in His work.

The clothing was not to be mixed with wool and linen because what they represent are contradictory. Wool represents Law and Linen represents Grace. Law cannot be mixed with Grace without spiritually fatal results, therefore wool was not to be mixed with linen." at Why is wearing two different types of fabric a sin? - Yahoo! Answers
If one can keep up with this then they will point out Paul was a Pharisee,Paul never uses the word abomination.Irrelevant. That could very simply be a language issue. Then the next question is why didn't he use it if it is still an abomination? You must remember that Paul's heart's desire was to please the Lord. Coming down in a harsh manner would not benefit the Kingdom in the manner in which God desired. Consider the letters that Paul wrote to each one of them. He was fully able to clearly inform them of the displeasure they were bringing to the Lord without using that word. so again...that Paul did not say "abomination' is irrelevant.
(Remember the restrictions on the dietary laws were removed,so the thinking is if those were removed why not this also if the word abomination is no longer used in the New Testament) Jesus speaks of the abomination of desolation which means "the abomination that brings desolation" so reset your thinking on that one and John talks about Mystery Babylon. Consider what the word 'mystery' means; darkness, unknown, secrets. what does either of these have to do with sodomy STILL being an abomination/sin?? ...all sins ARE abominations to God, BTW...
Maggie
Maggie,

I do not disagree with you. Did you read the few sentences before that this is what I said prior to that
"[I]After dealing with many on this issue,a number of them "know" the Bible. Their next come back on the word abomination it is only used twice in the New Testament. Yet in the Old Testament it is used 65 times under the Mosaic Law. This is the argument they will use ...[/I] I never said I agree with them,from the beginning I have said that even if one were to be able to come to the conclusion that it is a birth defect,God will not allow one to use that as a license to commit sin. All sexual sins are a form of adultery. Your argument is not with me.
 
D

Daniel94

Guest
That is LEVITICAL law. See Lev 19:19)
This is a excellent answer I found to address this: "Why is wearing two different types of fabric a sin?
Ok it says in Leviticus. I hear people say thats only for the Jews. But where does the Bible say its only for the Jews? It also says in Leviticus that lying with another man is abomination. So that must also only be for Jews. How do Christians justify breaking a ton of rules in the Bible but decide to keep a select few? Christians also aren't supposed to eat pork, and Jesus never denounced that law despite what people say.
5 months ago Report Abuse

Ernest S Best Answer - Chosen by Voters

Your question is full of gross ignorance and therefore it is difficult to answer.

It is a pity that you do not read the Bible for yourself for then perhaps you would be able to ask a clearer question.


Firstly it does not say not to wear different types of fabric on the skin.

I'm not trying to start a debate with you, but I see some problems with your "source." First of all I feel the guy replying is "full of gross ignorance" as he would say. Telling someone their question(basically themselves) is full of gross ignorance is not how to answer someones question. My goodness, no wonder people don't like Christians. Full of crude remarks and smirks. Secondly, how is he to say the one who asked the question does not read the Bible? No where in the question or details did the poster state s/he did not read the Bible. They stated they heard Christians say the Leviticus laws only applied to Jews. How one can jump to the conclusion that the poster does not read the Bible is beyond me. If the poster did not fully understand what s/he had read then of course they would listen to the opinions of others so that they may better understand it. Why do you think they were asking a question? Because they didn't understand something. Lastly, the guy who answered is wrong in saying the Bible does not say not to wear different types of fabric on the skin. People read different versions of the Bible. For example, let's take a look at the verse in question in the NIV...

Leviticus 19:19(NIV)
19 “‘Keep my decrees.

“‘Do not mate different kinds of animals.

“‘Do not plant your field with two kinds of seed.

“‘Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material.

Now, I'm not sure how well anyone else reads, but of the last line, no where do I see the words wool, linen and/or skin. I see "do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material." I think the person who responded to the question needs to learn to read the Bible himself, or at least more than one version. Or, maybe he could have asked the poster which version they read. Since he was so quick to jump to conclusions I will also join in by saying apparently the guy did not know there was more than one version of the Bible. Hmm, I wonder who is full of gross ignorance now.
 
Jun 24, 2012
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Hi I'm a homosexual always have been i am who i am i didn't set out and be one.
and everybody on here knows that God knew as all when he made creation he knows everything about us.
and God loves us all the same way.
I don't feel bad about being a homosexual i'm happy of who i am.
I believe that God made me homosexual.
It says in the bible God chose us when he made creation
We are not a mistake
We are fearfully wonderfully made
He knitted us together in our mothers womb

He loves us all God chose us
 
S

smithbr8

Guest
Who taught you to compare/equal ethnicity with sexual deviations?
Well, if sexuality is a choice, then you have to choose it before you're born, which would mean everything about you is a choice- race, gender, hair color. NONE of it would be genetic then....If just sexuality is choice, when in uterus do people decide that? How do they inform others while in the womb of their sexuality?
 

superdave5221

Senior Member
Jul 28, 2009
1,409
31
48
Hi I'm a homosexual always have been i am who i am i didn't set out and be one.
and everybody on here knows that God knew as all when he made creation he knows everything about us.
and God loves us all the same way.
I don't feel bad about being a homosexual i'm happy of who i am.
I believe that God made me homosexual.
It says in the bible God chose us when he made creation
We are not a mistake
We are fearfully wonderfully made
He knitted us together in our mothers womb

He loves us all God chose us
Hello Cassie,

To begin with, you are right, God does love you. But do not be deceived, God's holiness requires that those who transgress His laws are punished for their guilt, unless they are under the saving blood of Jesus Christ.

Whether or not you were "born that way" does not matter. We are all born with and inclination to sin against our Creator.

Ephesians 2: 1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.

Do not think that you will receive some kind of pardon because you think that you were "born that way". Adulterers, alcoholics, drug addicts, are all people who did not make a conscious decision to engage in destructive lifestyles. This lifestyle was imposed upon them as they gave in to their sinful desires. Without the work of the Spirit of Christ in our lives, we quickly become slaves to sin. But God has offered us a better way:

Romans 7: 23 but I see another law at work in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within my members. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death? 25 Thanks be to God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God's law, but in the sinful nature a slave to the law of sin. 8: 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and death

Just as heterosexuals struggle with sinful tendencies, you will also. But Christ has promised to set us free from the bondage of sin. And He has promised to give us new desires:

Ephesians 4: 22 You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23 to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24 and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness

If you are currently practicing this lifesyle, you must repent and forsake that lifestyle.

1 Corinthians 6: 9 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders 10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Seek out fellowship with a bible believing congregation and ask Jesus into your life so that you can trully fellowship with Him. He can and will change your heart and liberate you from your bondage to sin.

God bless