How long can a Christian go without sinning?

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - this is an example of discouraging those who hunger and thirst for righteousness.

Really, I know hundreds, maybe thousands of people in my lifetime who hunger and thirst after righteousness. It has never discouraged them

the only people it seems to bring out discouragment and hate in are those who think they are SAVED or MADE righteous by living this way..

What happens when you are shown by God that you are wrong, and are just the hyper
legalist you claim to want to avoid and condemn constantly as the evil in the church?

1. Your not God.
2. Hyper legalism would be phariseeism on steroids (quite an impossible task) and since i am not telling ANYONE to work to EARN salvation, I would not even be considered a HYPO-Legalist.

It is ironic the great crusader is actually crusading against themselves.

The only one i see crusading here is you my friend..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

The above phrase calls us to present our bodies as slave of righteousness, ie living
righteous real loving lives, in obedience to Christ and the Spirit.

Because this takes time, patience, endurance, perseverance does not make it impossible.

The only people that says it is impossible are the imaginary people who keep claiming does.. No one in reality (that I know if) says this..

when will you ever give up?

 

[PeterJens]

But what does make it impossible is what we really are. We can present our bodies as slaves of righteousness i.e. being kept from known sin.. We CANNOT be free from all unrighteousness, except through His righteousness imputed to us.

valiant - Here for me is the question. If people experience this freedom, for real, how can
you say, "except imputed to us". This is just an experiential observation of the struggle.

And if most do not even bother struggling and the rest are told do not bother, is it any wonder
that so many give up or abandon the whole project.

 

[valiant]

EG - this is an example of discouraging those who hunger and thirst for righteousness.

Nonsense, it is realising what we are.

What happens when you are shown by God that you are wrong, and are just the hyper
legalist you claim to want to avoid and condemn constantly as the evil in the church?

But we are NOT wrong. We all constantly have to seek to put to death sin in our bodies (Rom 8.13),

It is ironic the great crusader is actually crusading against themselves.

because he knows the truth about himself

 

[eternally-gratefull]

peter, righteousness and sin have very little to do with emotions and experiences. it has to do with recognizing what the Bible says the standards are, and then see if we are meeting them or not.

grace , faith, works, not feelings and emotions and experiences. please stop denying clear Biblical truth. feeling pure and righteous does NOT mean you are.

The pharisee thought he was pure and righteous. WHat good did it do them, It was not until they repented, that they were finally able to see Christ.. Thank God a few of them did (paul and nicodemous to name a few)

 

[PeterJens]

The only people that says it is impossible are the imaginary people who keep claiming does.. No one in reality (that I know if) says this..

when will you ever give up?

EG - then you admit you can walk rightously for 24 hours? And that you are a slave to
righeousness and the ways of love. Amen, welcome brother to the Kingdom of Heaven
and its ways.

 

[PeterJens]

I had a thought.

I got it wrong all along. You guys are hungering and thirsting to walk righteously, and
to know His presence in our hearts, day in, day out.

And you are actually encouraging me to press on towards to the goal of being in the likeness
of Christ. And you want to encourage Ben in his observation, righteousness is a good thing,
let us walk in it through the power of the Cross and Jesus who has overcome the world,
Amen.

 

[Desertsrose]

Because of progressive sanctification. This doesn't excuse the issue though. If a person doesn't even believe it possible (to even go a day without sin) then we've missed the grace of God that teaches us to deny ungodliness.

In discussing this I've had people grant me this answer. "Theoretically, yes." At least they granted the possibility. Yet to state emphatically that its not possible, it puts into question the whole nature of our rebirth.

It also puts into question the nature of our God. Is He all powerful or not.

He's saved us, and empowered us to live a Godly life. If we prove Him to be impotent, we're not saved. We're still under the Law and haven't been set free by His love which works mightily in us by faith to the obedience of God by His power that works within us.

 

[valiant]

valiant - Here for me is the question. If people experience this freedom, for real,

You CAN only know victory over KNOWN sin.

how can you say, "except imputed to us".

Because full righteousness is IMPUTED to us for Christ's sake. (Rom 3.22-5.21). Our righteousness has been shown to be totally insufficient (Rom 1.18-3.21)

This is just an experiential observation of the struggle.

you cannot observe what you do not know

And if most do not even bother struggling and the rest are told do not bother, is it any wonder
that so many give up or abandon the whole project.

But we do not have to 'struggle', and thank God for it. We would only struggle in vain. We have died with Christ and the Spirit works within us. He lives through us His perfect life. However He is constantly hindered by the flesh which we constantly have to renounce. That is why we need to be saved from the power of sin constantly

 

[PeterJens]

I have another thought.

We are probably not allowed to hunger and thirst for righteousness because it is always
in the wrong way. I remember being banned from praying, because I obviously cannot
pray to Christ or God, because I was so wrong, lol.

I sometimes wonder if people have actually lost the plot, and language is just changed
to justify the impossible positions they get into.

All I need to know is Jesus loves me through the cross and I am forgiven, and desire above
all to share this love that transforms dead lives to whole eternal lives in the Kingdom, Amen.

 

[PeterJens]

You CAN only know victory over KNOWN sin.

valiant - Opps, if Christ only brought forgiveness for known sin, then unless I learn
all the possible sins I have commited, and understood them, I am lost, because just
one sin which is unforgiven, and all is lost.

So for salvation to be real, grace and forgiveness must apply to all sin ever commited
in the past whether known or unknown, and the consequences of them.

How this victory works out in individual lives, God is the one who exercises this.
Some are cured of addictions, and behaviours instantly, while others remain a struggle.

Scripture has adequate examples of both. How could a lame man walk properly if he has
never walked properly in his life? The Lord does much more than we could imagine or think
to bring His sons to glory, Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG - then you admit you can walk rightously for 24 hours? And that you are a slave to
righeousness and the ways of love. Amen, welcome brother to the Kingdom of Heaven
and its ways.

why would I want to risk lying, and boast of my own righteousness? And not boast of Gods righteousness?

I am a slave to righteousness, That does not make me perfect. It makes me Love God more.. because I know I am not perfect.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I had a thought.

I got it wrong all along. You guys are hungering and thirsting to walk righteously, and
to know His presence in our hearts, day in, day out.

And you are actually encouraging me to press on towards to the goal of being in the likeness
of Christ. And you want to encourage Ben in his observation, righteousness is a good thing,
let us walk in it through the power of the Cross and Jesus who has overcome the world,
Amen.

Amen,

Just realise, Apart from the bolded part. it is all self righteousness. it has to be all in Christ and through Christ.

 

[maxwel]

1 Cor 6:9-10 Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor homosexual offenders, nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were.

Gal 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Eph 5:3-6 But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. For of this you can be sure: No sexually immoral, impure or greedy person—such a person is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient. Therefore do not be partners with them.

Rev. 22:12-16 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.”

For the 3rd Time, a simple question: DEFINE SIN.





Are you UNABLE, or just UNWILLING, to provide a definition for the word SIN?





A verse with no explanation, is not a definition.

Quoting a verse is NOT the same as giving your definition:
A. Different people could all be interpreting the verse differently... so we still don't know YOUR definition.
B. You cannot merely say, "the verse show's God's definition"... as everyone could still interpret the verse differently, and thus still come up with different understandings.
C. A verse could be giving EXAMPLES of a thing... an example is not a definition.
C. A verse could be talking about various aspects of a thing... certain aspects are not equal to a full definition.
D. A verse could be taking about results or effects of a thing... results and effects are not a definition.

People usually refuse to define terms for 2 reasons:

A. They don't really understand the meaning of a thing... they don't even have a clear definition

B. Giving a definition forces them to take a CLEAR stand, on a CLEAR issue... and allows their argument to be easily refuted... thus they prefer to be vague and confusing.

A verse with no explanations... is not even an explanation. And it is BIBLICAL & PROPER to give an explanation:
This is biblical; this is what Moses did, this is what Jesus did, this is what Paul did... and this is the whole purpose of teachers... you are to look at the text, and give the meaning and interpretation, so people will understand what you're getting at, and how.

- This is a clear and explicit principle in the Bible... you need to explain things and give the meaning... you cannot just throw scripture out, and PRETEND LIKE YOUR IDEAS ARE JUSTIFIED.

- You must give the meaning, and explaining yourself, and show HOW you arrived at YOUR meaning from the text.




So again, for the 3rd time, what is your definition of SIN?

So far, you are refusing to define terms, and you are ONLY philosophizing about a word which you CANNOT even define.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have another thought.

We are probably not allowed to hunger and thirst for righteousness because it is always
in the wrong way. I remember being banned from praying, because I obviously cannot
pray to Christ or God, because I was so wrong, lol.

I sometimes wonder if people have actually lost the plot, and language is just changed
to justify the impossible positions they get into.

All I need to know is Jesus loves me through the cross and I am forgiven, and desire above
all to share this love that transforms dead lives to whole eternal lives in the Kingdom, Amen.

God would rather us do it in the wrong way, At least we are looking the right way, and he can then correct ud as we continue to walk.

Than not even try at all

 

[eternally-gratefull]

valiant - Opps, if Christ only brought forgiveness for known sin, then unless I learn
all the possible sins I have commited, and understood them, I am lost, because just
one sin which is unforgiven, and all is lost.

So for salvation to be real, grace and forgiveness must apply to all sin ever commited
in the past whether known or unknown, and the consequences of them.

How this victory works out in individual lives, God is the one who exercises this.
Some are cured of addictions, and behaviours instantly, while others remain a struggle.

Scripture has adequate examples of both. How could a lame man walk properly if he has
never walked properly in his life? The Lord does much more than we could imagine or think
to bring His sons to glory, Amen.

This is a start, if we admit, we have unknown sin, We can start to admit, we probably do nnot live up to Gods standard of righteousness. And in turn, have to rely more on him.. and grace..

 

[Sirk]

For the 3rd Time, a simple question: DEFINE SIN.





Are you UNABLE, or just UNWILLING, to provide a definition for the word SIN?





A verse with no explanation, is not a definition.

Quoting a verse is NOT the same as giving your definition:
A. Different people could all be interpreting the verse differently... so we still don't know YOUR definition.
B. You cannot merely say, "the verse show's God's definition"... as everyone could still interpret the verse differently, and thus still come up with different understandings.
C. A verse could be giving EXAMPLES of a thing... an example is not a definition.
C. A verse could be talking about various aspects of a thing... certain aspects are not equal to a full definition.
D. A verse could be taking about results or effects of a thing... results and effects are not a definition.

People usually refuse to define terms for 2 reasons:

A. They don't really understand the meaning of a thing... they don't even have a clear definition

B. Giving a definition forces them to take a CLEAR stand, on a CLEAR issue... and allows their argument to be easily refuted... thus they prefer to be vague and confusing.

A verse with no explanations... is not even an explanation. And it is BIBLICAL & PROPER to give an explanation:
This is biblical; this is what Moses did, this is what Jesus did, this is what Paul did... and this is the whole purpose of teachers... you are to look at the text, and give the meaning and interpretation, so people will understand what you're getting at, and how.

- This is a clear and explicit principle in the Bible... you need to explain things and give the meaning... you cannot just throw scripture out, and PRETEND LIKE YOUR IDEAS ARE JUSTIFIED.

- You must give the meaning, and explaining yourself, and show HOW you arrived at YOUR meaning from the text.




So again, for the 3rd time, what is your definition of SIN?

So far, you are refusing to define terms, and you are ONLY philosophizing about a word which you CANNOT even define.

ha! Can I try?

Sin= anything that is short of perfection in our character, thoughts and deeds.

 

[G00WZ]

This is a trick question, but i would say until they choose to sin.

 

[PeterJens]

why would I want to risk lying, and boast of my own righteousness? And not boast of Gods righteousness?

I am a slave to righteousness, That does not make me perfect. It makes me Love God more.. because I know I am not perfect.

EG - Amen. I have never asked anyone to boast, or to say this is where I am, but rather
to acknowledge we grow and are transformed into His likeness to the glory of God.

Commitment to this walk is everything, not some mild affirmation, but a serious this is the
Kingdom and sin is rebellion against it.

Now who is it who says we are perfect or not? God alone.
Paul is always encouraging people onto perfection, onto resisting impurity and temptation and
walking in love and care.

I have heard people call for revival over the years and claim things will happen here etc.
and little moves. Until we can get these first steps right, we end up just infighting over
issues we should be all agreeing on.

 

[BenFTW]

For the 3rd Time, a simple question: DEFINE SIN.





Are you UNABLE, or just UNWILLING, to provide a definition for the word SIN?





A verse with no explanation, is not a definition.

Quoting a verse is NOT the same as giving your definition:
A. Different people could all be interpreting the verse differently... so we still don't know YOUR definition.
B. You cannot merely say, "the verse show's God's definition"... as everyone could still interpret the verse differently, and thus still come up with different understandings.
C. A verse could be giving EXAMPLES of a thing... an example is not a definition.
C. A verse could be talking about various aspects of a thing... certain aspects are not equal to a full definition.
D. A verse could be taking about results or effects of a thing... results and effects are not a definition.

People usually refuse to define terms for 2 reasons:

A. They don't really understand the meaning of a thing... they don't even have a clear definition

B. Giving a definition forces them to take a CLEAR stand, on a CLEAR issue... and allows their argument to be easily refuted... thus they prefer to be vague and confusing.

A verse with no explanations... is not even an explanation. And it is BIBLICAL & PROPER to give an explanation:
This is biblical; this is what Moses did, this is what Jesus did, this is what Paul did... and this is the whole purpose of teachers... you are to look at the text, and give the meaning and interpretation, so people will understand what you're getting at, and how.

- This is a clear and explicit principle in the Bible... you need to explain things and give the meaning... you cannot just throw scripture out, and PRETEND LIKE YOUR IDEAS ARE JUSTIFIED.

- You must give the meaning, and explaining yourself, and show HOW you arrived at YOUR meaning from the text.




So again, for the 3rd time, what is your definition of SIN?

So far, you are refusing to define terms, and you are ONLY philosophizing about a word which you CANNOT even define.

You're far too hostile for my taste. I'm going to refuse defining anything or discussing this further with you. You asked what sin was. I gave you a list of what God deems as sin. If you're looking for a definition just use Google.