How long can a Christian go without sinning?
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I was hoping for a nice long post from you, haha. 
I think this topic is right up your alley, and you'd be interested in discussing it.
I've noticed this a lot lately, and I even asked myself this question a day or two before it was asked of the pastor (which was a weird coincidence). The answer to the question from Christians seems to imply that they believe we all sin all the time and that victory over sin is not a thing.
I know that you know I don't stand for a judgmental sinless perfectionist stance, but if you haven't noticed, do you see how a lot of believers find it nearly impossible to not sin but a couple days? To even consider a month, thats just crazy! haha Yet... what does scripture say about our relation to sin?
I think this topic is right up your alley, and you'd be interested in discussing it. I've noticed this a lot lately, and I even asked myself this question a day or two before it was asked of the pastor (which was a weird coincidence). The answer to the question from Christians seems to imply that they believe we all sin all the time and that victory over sin is not a thing.
I know that you know I don't stand for a judgmental sinless perfectionist stance, but if you haven't noticed, do you see how a lot of believers find it nearly impossible to not sin but a couple days? To even consider a month, thats just crazy! haha Yet... what does scripture say about our relation to sin?
I believe that those outward blatant sins done in the body can be done away with as we walk by the Spirit within us so that we don't do the lusts of the flesh to do "it's" desires.
We are learning to live from the life of Another in us and while we are learning this - the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 1:7
I believe that we need to understand the circumcision of Christ in Col. 2:11 where it says that the body of sin/flesh has been cut away from the inner man that is in Christ. We are still responsible with what we do in these bodies.
Knowing the truth of the circumcision of the heart and complete dependence on the grace of God has been amazing to me because I have been living a holier life effortlessly then I ever thought possible before when I was in the works-based religion of performance. I still fight the good fight of faith which is to believe in what Christ has done on the cross and resurrection and the fact that I too died with Him and have been raised to newness of life.
I have written a few times about the difference between "sin" and "sinning". I believe knowing the difference between these addresses the "sin shall not have dominion over us" question in my mind. Here is a link if interested.
http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...have-dominion-over-us-christ.html#post2835447
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P
So what is the witness of a born again believer? If we say we have no sin the truth is not in us.
Yet if we sin then we reckon our selves unclean and not fit for the use of the potter?
Saints its what we do when we sin that determines our faith. We know longer hid nor blame it on someone else or circumstances. We go to our advocate Jesus who can wash us clean again .
Sin has no hold on us. This is the truth of the work of Christ.
Look at the story of king David all the sin that came from a curious glance. Adultery, murder, lieing deceiving, yet he remained king. Nathan took the parable of judgement to him. What did David do? Confess that he had sinned against God. By the law David could of been struck dead and rightly so. But by grace and mercy he was forgiven and restored. Finding a even deeper love for the Lord. It's what we do when we sin is the answer.
Yet if we sin then we reckon our selves unclean and not fit for the use of the potter?
Saints its what we do when we sin that determines our faith. We know longer hid nor blame it on someone else or circumstances. We go to our advocate Jesus who can wash us clean again .
Sin has no hold on us. This is the truth of the work of Christ.
Look at the story of king David all the sin that came from a curious glance. Adultery, murder, lieing deceiving, yet he remained king. Nathan took the parable of judgement to him. What did David do? Confess that he had sinned against God. By the law David could of been struck dead and rightly so. But by grace and mercy he was forgiven and restored. Finding a even deeper love for the Lord. It's what we do when we sin is the answer.
I wasn't asking, "Whats wrong with you people?" I am well aware of me wording things in such a way as to alienate myself from the rest, as I was writing. I took a mental note of it, which is why "we" is is very helpful word. I think the Lord kept me in check as to not get prideful because any time I worded it in such a way that implied me versus them, I couldn't but help think of Paul's thorn in the flesh (for his revelations and to not get prideful).
I am not being prideful but was careful as to not present the perspective of, "How have you all missed it?" Such a question, if it was worded, was in dumbfounded-ness that so many fellow believers truly don't believe we can walk even a day in righteousness. It wasn't said in the way you portrayed it comparing it to Mark 12:30-31. It was said in sincerity.
I am not being prideful but was careful as to not present the perspective of, "How have you all missed it?" Such a question, if it was worded, was in dumbfounded-ness that so many fellow believers truly don't believe we can walk even a day in righteousness. It wasn't said in the way you portrayed it comparing it to Mark 12:30-31. It was said in sincerity.
According to the bible, some people were perfect in keeping God's law, so I guess that answers that.
The context here is also before Jesus' death so the law spoken of is definately the mosaic law.
Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
The context here is also before Jesus' death so the law spoken of is definately the mosaic law.
Luke 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.
I. Define Our Terms
Before discussing how long we can go without sinning,
let's define sin.
Ben, what is sin?
What precisely is your definition of sin?
Let's define it in 2 ways.
1. Conceptual Definition: Let's get a nice, clear, broad, conceptual definition of the term.
2. Specific sins: Lets get a long list of specific sins... so we can really dig into this.
Hey, if you want to talk about sin... then let's really dig into it.
II. How Often:
If we can ever agree on definitions for "sin" and "specific sins", THEN we can determine how often we sin.
AFTER we really take a look at what SIN is, and what SINS are...
THEN we can determine how OFTEN we're sinning.
Let's not GUESS at this... let's really define this, and really take a close look.
Until we can define "sin" and define "specific sins"... we have no way to tell how often we're sinning.
We are forced, logically, to create these definitions and lists BEFORE we can answer the question of HOW OFTEN.
Before discussing how long we can go without sinning,
let's define sin.
Ben, what is sin?
What precisely is your definition of sin?
Let's define it in 2 ways.
1. Conceptual Definition: Let's get a nice, clear, broad, conceptual definition of the term.
2. Specific sins: Lets get a long list of specific sins... so we can really dig into this.
Hey, if you want to talk about sin... then let's really dig into it.
II. How Often:
If we can ever agree on definitions for "sin" and "specific sins", THEN we can determine how often we sin.
AFTER we really take a look at what SIN is, and what SINS are...
THEN we can determine how OFTEN we're sinning.
Let's not GUESS at this... let's really define this, and really take a close look.
Until we can define "sin" and define "specific sins"... we have no way to tell how often we're sinning.
We are forced, logically, to create these definitions and lists BEFORE we can answer the question of HOW OFTEN.
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W
Romans 6:1-2 King James Version (KJV)
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I think you may have misread what I said though.
6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
I think you may have misread what I said though.
This whole thread is ABOUT sin and FOCUSING on sin. Are we really dead to sin?
We are masters at sin, we didn't even need to be taught how to do it. We get saved, then we are taught about sin. Who would of thunk it?!
IMO, it is a testimony of the state of believers today. It is so full of the "working for salvation" mentality, that the focus has become sin, rather than the SON.
Yeah, as I've stated before or at least thought it (I think I stated it, haha) that this question is sort of focused wrong in certain respects, but nonetheless provides us a groundwork to understanding what we believe our relation as believers is to sin now that we have been born-again, made new creations.
It can be sin-focused, but if its Son-focused it will reveal to us that in Christ sin doesn't have dominion over us, under grace. This means that yes, we can go a day without sinning not that such sinning is the determining factor by which we are saved. As you know, we are saved by grace through faith.
It can be sin-focused, but if its Son-focused it will reveal to us that in Christ sin doesn't have dominion over us, under grace. This means that yes, we can go a day without sinning not that such sinning is the determining factor by which we are saved. As you know, we are saved by grace through faith.
This is off topic, but I've seen banned users set up new user IDs using different, false information in order to avoid being detected as a formerly banned user, who advocated sinless perfectionism strongly.
I get a chuckle out of this. One claimed he actually was sinless, but had no qualms with using deceit to regain admission into the chat room. In the course of time he revealed himself and got banned again.
I also think that sinless perfectionism by nature involves 1) setting up a standard that doesn't reflect God's holiness in order to claim the person is sinless and 2) a lot of self deception.
I don't think we can trust our carnal minds to assess our spiritual condition very well, either. Jeremiah 17:9 comes to mind..the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked..who can know it? Our hearts deceive us into thinking we've got ourselves cleaned up when in reality we have not. Sooner or later I think the Holy Spirit reveals our self deception and our alleged righteousness falls apart. That happened to me earlier in life, and I know I can't totally trust myself to properly assess my spiritual status. Maybe at some level, but there are some areas where we deceive ourselves in this regard. It's the essence of self righteousness.
I get a chuckle out of this. One claimed he actually was sinless, but had no qualms with using deceit to regain admission into the chat room. In the course of time he revealed himself and got banned again.
I also think that sinless perfectionism by nature involves 1) setting up a standard that doesn't reflect God's holiness in order to claim the person is sinless and 2) a lot of self deception.
I don't think we can trust our carnal minds to assess our spiritual condition very well, either. Jeremiah 17:9 comes to mind..the heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked..who can know it? Our hearts deceive us into thinking we've got ourselves cleaned up when in reality we have not. Sooner or later I think the Holy Spirit reveals our self deception and our alleged righteousness falls apart. That happened to me earlier in life, and I know I can't totally trust myself to properly assess my spiritual status. Maybe at some level, but there are some areas where we deceive ourselves in this regard. It's the essence of self righteousness.
Oh...! That is absolutely NOT what I intended to sound like I was saying. The struggle just begins when you have only just had what seems such a brief time in that first glow of realizing how loved and lucky you are to have met the love of your life!
You don't realize yet that the source of your struggles comes from areas of mistrust and unbelief and that when that mistrust displays in an area, it is the very thing that causes us to lose that first peace and begin our struggle.
There is a verse also that we later come to experience too though: after you have struggled for awhile with sin, He will confirm, establish, and strengthen you.
The struggle moves from trying harder and harder to more trust in Him to do it somehow, even though you have no idea how He will ever accomplish it. This very act of movement from mistrust (or from feeling you owe it to the one who saved you to be pleasing to Him) towards trust is where you begin to experience the truth of that verse.
You don't realize yet that the source of your struggles comes from areas of mistrust and unbelief and that when that mistrust displays in an area, it is the very thing that causes us to lose that first peace and begin our struggle.
There is a verse also that we later come to experience too though: after you have struggled for awhile with sin, He will confirm, establish, and strengthen you.
The struggle moves from trying harder and harder to more trust in Him to do it somehow, even though you have no idea how He will ever accomplish it. This very act of movement from mistrust (or from feeling you owe it to the one who saved you to be pleasing to Him) towards trust is where you begin to experience the truth of that verse.
The question is not really so much so about the length of time as it is the possibility of doing so. So when its asked if its possible to not sin daily, weekly, or yearly the important factor here is not the time table but whether or not a Christian can, will, or ought to not sin for periods of time.
How often isn't really quantifiable, to a certain degree (and is very subjective), but what I am sharing is extracting the truth from God's word and comparing it to the belief that we cannot abstain from sin for a day, a week, a month, or an hour. This belief seems contradictory to the sin nature being crucified, and us reckoning ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God (symbolized in baptism).
Think of the question not in terms of quantifying, but whether its possible to sin not. When its stated that a believer cannot abstain from sin for any period of time, quantifying is irrelevant. We need to first establish that we are set free from sin, dead to it, and therefore we serve in the newness of life. We are slaves to righteousness and not sin. Without this foundation any means by which we determine how often we sin is pointless because such sin is a result of having not renewed the mind to the reality of who we are in Christ.
How often isn't really quantifiable, to a certain degree (and is very subjective), but what I am sharing is extracting the truth from God's word and comparing it to the belief that we cannot abstain from sin for a day, a week, a month, or an hour. This belief seems contradictory to the sin nature being crucified, and us reckoning ourselves dead to sin and alive unto God (symbolized in baptism).
Think of the question not in terms of quantifying, but whether its possible to sin not. When its stated that a believer cannot abstain from sin for any period of time, quantifying is irrelevant. We need to first establish that we are set free from sin, dead to it, and therefore we serve in the newness of life. We are slaves to righteousness and not sin. Without this foundation any means by which we determine how often we sin is pointless because such sin is a result of having not renewed the mind to the reality of who we are in Christ.