If a christian commits suicide, would they go to hell?

[Magenta]

As one who has struggled (still does) with suicide -- I absolutely cringe when I hear people say that it is selfish.

I said (usually) very selfish. As someone who has been there myself, I know.
Self centeredness is the spiritual core of many ailments, starting in the garden.

Here's why:

I feel I am helping others, if I end my life:
- I will no longer consume (and waste, as so many of us do -- without even realizing the extent to which we waste), which means there will be more [resources] for others.
- People I continue to 'wrong' will no longer be 'wronged' by me.

Honestly, my hope in God is the only idea that has kept me this long. I fear that which is unknown -- and I truly do not know what would happen to what I call 'myself' if I committed suicide. I fear that it might lead to Hell, but what concerns me more -- is not participating in God's Kingdom.

Note: Did not intend for this to be offensive or an attack -- simply speaking what was on my heart after seeing your post. I do appreciate your post, especially this thought:

I am not offended. I can see you put a lot of heart and effort into your posts, and truly, I appreciate that about you. I am also sorry to hear that you still struggle with this issue. Take those thoughts captive, and make them obedient to Christ. I will pray to help you banish them.

 

[Magenta]

Wounded Warrior...

 

[BarlyGurl]

As one who has struggled (still does) with suicide -- I absolutely cringe when I hear people say that it is selfish.

Well IT IS....not being able to adjust your thinking beyond YOUR OWN SELF is SELFISH.... SELFISH...SELFISH!!!!!!

there is a stronghold in your mind that is blinding you... and IF you can acknowledge that as possible.... I know how and by whom you can be absolutely FREE of that struggle for the rest of your days.

 

[jsr1221]

Wounded Warrior...

View attachment 132261

I agree with this. But it's also important to remind the person he or she is loved. If someone grows up believing the person is a piece of crap, because that's all people ever said throughout time, it's kinda hard to feel loved.

 

[Greggy]

Murder is illegal killing. It is illegal to kill yourself.

So you going to concider all points of difference or only that they are against Gods will? Woefully short to say they are the same.

 

[Greggy]

They go to the psychiatric ward.

Only if they are surrounded with unbelievers.

A believer would say Hey I can help I have authority to help You Jesus would have helped you and now He sent me Come I will help. Come I have a commision. Unbelieif will call the doctors for a spiritual problem. That makes no sense.

 

[Greggy]

Nobody knows the answer to this question. Neither do they know such an individuals obviously excruciating distress (their personal suffering) that would bring them to that place where they would even contemplate such a thing. I do know of a parent or two that have suffered the loss of a child and have never recovered from it, emotionally. Life to them "doesn't really matter anymore" ... whether they remain living or die, that is. Is adultery committed in one's heart any less a sin than one who no longer finds in their heart a healthy desire to carry on anymore ? Are we not told that one who hates a brother or a sister commits murder (in their own heart) ? Jesus said they do. Matters of this depth and degree are rightly judged only by God. All too often we judge illness in the context of our physical being. A severely broken heart and distraught mind are no less an infirmity. And is certainly not ours to judge. My two cents worth.

Agrre with all of your post except Nobaody knows. We have the mind of Christ. Ww just dont know we have it. Thats the problem.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

never mind anyone elses post.

And makes no sense.

There nothing you can clear up here for me.

What?! Here's how I understood this reply: First you said "nevermind anyone else's post" (as in, ignoring everyone else's post). Second you state that [part of] my post makes no sense. Then you go on to say that there is nothing for me to clarify. -- Seems contradictory from the start, and then you went on to respond to other posts (after I thought you were implying that you were ignoring them) -- boy! Talk about confusing!

Ww just dont know we have it. Thats the problem.

What?!

Slow down, Greggy.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

As one who has struggled (still does) with suicide -- I absolutely cringe when I hear people say that it is selfish.

Well IT IS....not being able to adjust your thinking beyond YOUR OWN SELF is SELFISH.... SELFISH...SELFISH!!!!!!

I don't feel like expanding on this, since you failed to acknowledge this:

I feel I am helping others, if I end my life:

- I will no longer consume (and waste, as so many of us do -- without even realizing the extent to which we waste), which means there will be more [resources] for others.

- People I continue to 'wrong' will no longer be 'wronged' by me.

there is a stronghold in your mind that is blinding you... and IF you can acknowledge that as possible.... I know how and by whom you can be absolutely FREE of that struggle for the rest of your days.

Honestly, my hope in God is the only idea that has kept me this long.

You're preachin' to the choir, Sister, and ya sound an awful lot like a fire-'n-brimstone-style preacher...



1 Peter 3:15 ESV

But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,

 

[Magenta]

So you going to concider all points of difference or only that they are against Gods will? Woefully short to say they are the same.

I did not say they were the same.

 

[Magenta]

Only if they are surrounded with unbelievers.

A believer would say Hey I can help I have authority to help You Jesus would have helped you and now He sent me Come I will help. Come I have a commision. Unbelieif will call the doctors for a spiritual problem. That makes no sense.

It makes no sense to deny medical help to one who needs it.

 

[Olerica]

WoundedWarrior, if I could I would hug you so hard right now for being cool enough to respond kindly to what you have, and so graciously.

I am a surviving spouse of a suicide. It's been three years since my husband's death. What so many people don't understand it how battered someone who is dealing with suicidial thoughts is... How that level of depression can literally beat the life out of you.

While I live to deal with the consequences of his death (as any widow will... This is not unique to suicide) I know that my husband believed that he was saving me from a lot of pain and heartache.

 

[WoundedWarrior]

WoundedWarrior, if I could I would hug you so hard right now for being cool enough to respond kindly to what you have, and so graciously.

I am a surviving spouse of a suicide. It's been three years since my husband's death. What so many people don't understand it how battered someone who is dealing with suicidial thoughts is... How that level of depression can literally beat the life out of you.

While I live to deal with the consequences of his death (as any widow will... This is not unique to suicide) I know that my husband believed that he was saving me from a lot of pain and heartache.

Hit the nail on the head, Olerica! Thank you!

My sincerest condolences for your loss.

I have no words except: Thank you -- Thank you for showing empathy and compassion.

 

[slave]

The nature of sin is not immorality and wrongdoing, but the nature of self-realization which leads us to say, "I am my own God." Our claim to the right of myself. The Judgement of a person committing suicide rests then not on the judgement of the balance of his rights and wrongs percentages, but on his hearts conclusion entering into judgement.

The question here I ask is: Did God, thru Jesus, come to cover up our sins with grace or put sin away? A infinitely more profound question. Heb. 9:26, tells me that He came to "Put it away!" "Not "Cover it up!"

I believe God nowhere holds a person responsible for having the heredity of sins "being", and does not condemn anyone because of it. Condemnation comes when I realize that Jesus Christ came to deliver me from the heredity of sin, or sins "being," and yet I refuse to let Him do so. Now here in suicide we have a Christian, or non-Christian for that matter, who has committed a sin. And a sins particular; the act... is an evidence of the being of sin in you, by the fact it became an act. God had another option for this person, and altho not many would attest to that, when the truth of God's Word hits us between the eye's in judgement, we want to cringe, even run, even deny it's validity. But we must come to bear with the truth, for it will set us free. Gods purpose is not to point the finger and pull the kill switch when we wrong, His purpose is to give us life, and that even more abundantly! God was waiting patiently for this person to be given God's resources to his issues.... an option that would have been a more than conquering one. And certainly God's provision thru grace thru forgiveness would have been granted him, had he stuck around to use it. yet when one has known of God and stepped in refusal of Him at that moment he began to get the seal of damnation..The human in us wants to subside the blow of this...the truth of the gospel has us reconcile to this.

"This is condemnation [and the critical moment], that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light..." John 3:19. This is a desperately sad affair. This person is in deep need, and has God ready to help, he has people like ourselves, available yet asked, and he has left behind God's provision for gracious forgiveness and tutelage. So to be sad and in pain is a correct response to this lost hope. Indeed a grieving is in order here but....

I, nor Martin Luther King, nor anyone in this thread can judge the hearts of man. Nor can any self-righteous religion over-rule the truth of God's Word. the Gospel tells us we can be certain that the heart of man will be the deciding factor as to how God will judge him. How he treated Gods free gift will be his test.

 

[Magenta]

I agree with this. But it's also important to remind the person he or she is loved. If someone grows up believing the person is a piece of crap, because that's all people ever said throughout time, it's kinda hard to feel loved.

First we need to know what love is. What do we know of love? Between humans it is often quite fractured. The lack of understanding devolves into sharp edges that rub us the wrong way, cutting us to ribbons, shredding our lives, destroying our sense of self, leaving nothing in its wake but pain and suffering, sometimes accompanied by the desire to escape the pain and suffering by any means possible. Our wounds then define who we are, how we view life, the subsequent choices we make. That we are so profoundly affected by our ideas of love and its meaning in our lives speaks to its importance, even if we wish to deny it. How then are we to love others? We need to go to the source for healing.

Have you ever read Kahlil Gibran's The Prophet? Here is what he said on love:

When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams
as the north wind lays waste the garden.

For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.

Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.

All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart,
and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.

But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, "I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

 

[BarlyGurl]

WoundedWarrior, if I could I would hug you so hard right now for being cool enough to respond kindly to what you have, and so graciously.

I am a surviving spouse of a suicide. It's been three years since my husband's death. What so many people don't understand it how battered someone who is dealing with suicidial thoughts is... How that level of depression can literally beat the life out of you.

While I live to deal with the consequences of his death (as any widow will... This is not unique to suicide) I know that my husband believed that he was saving me from a lot of pain and heartache.

So how about telling the TRUTH about what suicide does? So you KNOW your husband believed he was saving you from pain and heartache??? WHAT did his self-centered selfishness REALLY CAUSE..... 3 years now??? So your husband excused himself from life and responsibility to "save" everyone else pain and heartache.... now he is gone and what did were the consequences he left behind.... PAIN AND HEARTACHE.

Tell the WHOLE TRUTH... don't gloss over and allude to your pain and problems whilst making excuses for your husband's suicide. Your husband was SELFISH irrespective of any other factors... it doesn't take much for the powers of darkness to push a selfish-self centered mind into sin any sin. FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom... and I am certain it is a safety line that holds back the "struggling" regarding suicide or other sin unto death.

 

[slave]

First we need to know what love is. What do we know of love? Between humans it is often quite fractured. The lack of understanding devolves into sharp edges that rub us the wrong way, cutting us to ribbons, shredding our lives, destroying our sense of self, leaving nothing in its wake but pain and suffering, sometimes accompanied by the desire to escape the pain and suffering by any means possible. Our wounds then define who we are, how we view life, the subsequent choices we make. That we are so profoundly affected by our ideas of love and its meaning in our lives speaks to its importance, even if we wish to deny it. How then are we to love others? We need to go to the source for healing.

Have you ever read Kahlil Gibran's The Prophet? Here is what he said on love:

When love beckons to you, follow him,
Though his ways are hard and steep.
And when his wings enfold you yield to him,
Though the sword hidden among his pinions may wound you.
And when he speaks to you believe in him,
Though his voice may shatter your dreams
as the north wind lays waste the garden.

For even as love crowns you so shall he crucify you.
Even as he is for your growth so is he for your pruning.
Even as he ascends to your height and caresses your tenderest branches that quiver in the sun,
So shall he descend to your roots and shake them in their clinging to the earth.

Like sheaves of corn he gathers you unto himself.
He threshes you to make you naked.
He sifts you to free you from your husks.
He grinds you to whiteness.
He kneads you until you are pliant;
And then he assigns you to his sacred fire, that you may become sacred bread for God's sacred feast.

All these things shall love do unto you that you may know the secrets of your heart,
and in that knowledge become a fragment of Life's heart.

But if in your fear you would seek only love's peace and love's pleasure,
Then it is better for you that you cover your nakedness and pass out of love's threshing-floor,
Into the seasonless world where you shall laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears.
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.

When you love you should not say, "God is in my heart," but rather, "I am in the heart of God."
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you worthy, directs your course.

Love has no other desire but to fulfill itself.
But if you love and must needs have desires, let these be your desires:
To melt and be like a running brook that sings its melody to the night.
To know the pain of too much tenderness.
To be wounded by your own understanding of love;
And to bleed willingly and joyfully.
To wake at dawn with a winged heart and give thanks for another day of loving;
To rest at the noon hour and meditate love's ecstasy;
To return home at eventide with gratitude;
And then to sleep with a prayer for the beloved in your heart and a song of praise upon your lips.

God came to meet mens needs not cure their circumstances. God is love! Thus, the Gospel is the Word of love....the good the bad and the ugly of it. The truth was never promised not to have an impact, it was only promised to set us free.

I agree with you , the authorship of God dictates loves policies, love is not God's critic. The gospel then is a gift to our poverty, not a triumph of our resources. We are apt to think that Jesus Christ took all the bitterness and we get only the blessing. And it is absolutely true we do get the blessing, but must equally conclude that the gospel also shows us that the wine of life is made out of crushed grapes. Now, this is a larger view in the mentioned point of jsr1221, but it is nonetheless a part of the consideration in the point made in that post.

We need to never look for justice; but never cease to give it.For we need to never allow anything we meet with to sour our relationship to men in the new man.

The concerns of the suicidal person is a very sensitive one. But we can both love them and love the ones hurt that knew them, without compromising the Word of God.It is in fact, because we didn't real love is seen. The tendency today is to say, "Live a Holy life, but don't talk about it; don't give your testimony; don't confess your supernatural version of allegiance to Jesus, and you will be left alone..[Or, not hurt peoples human concerns"]. But God came to meet mens needs and so am I in that allegiance.

 

[Olerica]

So how about telling the TRUTH about what suicide does? So you KNOW your husband believed he was saving you from pain and heartache??? WHAT did his self-centered selfishness REALLY CAUSE..... 3 years now??? So your husband excused himself from life and responsibility to "save" everyone else pain and heartache.... now he is gone and what did were the consequences he left behind.... PAIN AND HEARTACHE.

Tell the WHOLE TRUTH... don't gloss over and allude to your pain and problems whilst making excuses for your husband's suicide. Your husband was SELFISH irrespective of any other factors... it doesn't take much for the powers of darkness to push a selfish-self centered mind into sin any sin. FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom... and I am certain it is a safety line that holds back the "struggling" regarding suicide or other sin unto death.

You really are an unpleasant person, do you know that? Your tone here and other places I have seen you post lacks empathy, which is what I was attempting to grace you with.

I wasnt talking about my pain.... I told WW that very few understand the daily struggle that many suicidial people have. The day, after day, after day, after day, after day of being battered by all sorts of thoughts. You might consider that it's mental illness that typically goes untreated because of the stigma of treatment, and the ability to hide the pain from public view.

and yes, he never hid his struggle from me once it was revealed. Though I have discovered after the fact that I was the only one who knew. Yes, I tried to get him help, but I loved him wholly, and I vowed at the beginning to stay no matter what... Sickness AND health, forsaking ALL others... Till death do us part. And I held my vows lovingly and passionately

can you please take a step out of your need to be 'right' and talk about this gently with people who struggle with this temptation (as Jesus was tempted...and did not sin), and with those who have survived their own attempts (God is so gracious), and those like me who are mourning a huge loss; or is your need to be right, rigid, and without compassion to other THAT much more important?

do you really think that the God of the universe, I Am that I Am; who sent his Son to die this brutal death to pay for all sin, excludes suicide? When we are saved, when we accept the gift that Jesus bought for EACH of us for ALL of our sins, it covered all sin from that moment before and ALL moments afterwards until we are perfected.

No, that doesn't give us permission to sin, but it covers them all. Or do you think that the Omnicient One somehow didn't anticipate that sin? His grace is sufficient.

i do pray for those who struggle with depression, with suicidial thoughts, AND with temptation of all sorts (myself included) that we all behave in a way worthy of the calling of salvation.... I also pray for those not yet under the law of grace, that they find their hope and salvation in Jesus Christ our Lord.

you told me not to gloss this over, and I didn't. I suffer like EVERY OTHER WIDOW. Some widows lose their spouses through disease that lingers (which is the category I see myself in), some loss happens quickly, some at an old age....it doesn't matter. It's still your best friend and lover being torn from your arms and life. I have other widow friends... Grief is grief.

God is greater that this. He is our comfort, our rest. His grace is sufficient even for this. He is faithful even in this. Even if I mourn for the rest of my life here, without the comfort of a husband (a new one... The first is not returning) God is enough. He promises to meet all of my needs and I am well provided for.

The whole of it is? His death allowed me to own my house and my business. It freed me from the fear I would find him gone when I returned from...anywhere. It freed me from the deep emotional burden of propping up my beloved for one more brutal day... And it was a task I would have done forever. It freed me to heal. Freed me to find new love (should I be so blessed), and to be loved again as he loved me....without guilt or worry that I had broken my vows.... Yes, all of that came, no...comes with the price of grief. He believed he was giving his life so I as his wife, would be free for so much better. He gave his life for me because he knew that caring for him was killing me. I wholeheartedly understand this sacrifice. Would I trade it all for him to be here? I would say yes, but I see God working in this space too... I see God being glorified.

please pray before you respond

 

[Olerica]

Hit the nail on the head, Olerica! Thank you!

My sincerest condolences for your loss.

I have no words except: Thank you -- Thank you for showing empathy and compassion.

You are welcome, Beloved Brother

 

[WoundedWarrior]

So how about telling the TRUTH about what suicide does? So you KNOW your husband believed he was saving you from pain and heartache??? WHAT did his self-centered selfishness REALLY CAUSE..... 3 years now??? So your husband excused himself from life and responsibility to "save" everyone else pain and heartache.... now he is gone and what did were the consequences he left behind.... PAIN AND HEARTACHE.

Tell the WHOLE TRUTH... don't gloss over and allude to your pain and problems whilst making excuses for your husband's suicide. Your husband was SELFISH irrespective of any other factors... it doesn't take much for the powers of darkness to push a selfish-self centered mind into sin any sin. FEAR of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom... and I am certain it is a safety line that holds back the "struggling" regarding suicide or other sin unto death.

Olerica has already responded to this -- and I fully agree with her post; could not have said it better myself.

One other thought that I would like to add: BarlyGurl, At least twice now, you have told the world (in a Christian suicide thread) that you believe those who commit suicide are SELFISH and SELF-CENTERED. But, not once have you supported your belief.

Your belief was challenged -- twice, by two separate people; one who personally struggles with recurring thoughts of suicide, and one who has lost a spouse to suicide.

You responded by repeating your beliefs, showed us that you fail (yet again) to consider our point(s) of view, and displayed zero attempt at having empathy or compassion toward either of us (or those who have committed suicide).

In other words, your words are very offensive in tone and have been received as coming from one who, as Olerica said, has a "...need to be right, rigid, and without compassion to other..." We say this not as a judgement, condemnation, or anything of that nature -- we say this because we are attempting to help you see something that has apparently been overlooked: Empathy, Compassion, Edification (towards fellow Believers).