indifference

[Siberian_Khatru]

Wow, that's some terrifying imagery.

Why is the grass greener on the World's side??

 

[just-me]

I have often said there is no fence to straddle within the ranks of biblical Christianity...being indifferent is in a way trying to straddle the fence and remain in the middle...Neither for or against any one particular thing, thought, teaching, practice, doctrine etc.....

At the end of the day we must choose a side to stand on, because to not stand for that which is right, godly, biblical automatically lumps one to the side of error.....To choose not to choose or make a stand is a choice!

Indifferent people are easy to deceive. Let us all follow Joshua's example.
"And if it seem evil unto you to serve the Lord, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." (Joshua 24:15)

 

[Willie-T]

I did not skip nothing and I did answer it as it does not say anywhere that the Lord will keep the cold in His mouth for the cold would not be in the Lord to begin with.

I do not get where you or Willie think a person who is cold is in His mouth (in Him by faith) to begin with, as that passage does not say they are. The hot are in Christ and the cold are not, so the judgment of them is easy as their place is clearly set before hand.

But those who are lukewarm are still straddling the fence and better chose before they die to repent and serve the Lord only, or continue to be lukewarm and they will be cast aside and placed with the unbelievers. You can not serve two masters and have eternal life both.

Well, of the three types of people, He is only expelling ONE. The 'lukewarm" person. I think He (of course) accepts the "hot" one who lives fully in His grace.... but I think He also still holds out an expectation of possible change for the "cold" one, still solidly believing in law to save him.

It is the one who is content and satisfied that believing in grace, BUT making sure to hedge his bet with a lot of legal works to be what will "actually" save him, that God has no use for. Because they will NOT fully trust in only Him, and nothing else, yet they think they are comfortably "right" and Holy due to the extra insurance they try to buy through adding some of THEIR own works to what Jesus did. The big problem here is that they see no reason to change.... and this is not what God wants.

 

[MadParrotWoman]

I have met so many "lukewarm's" it's frightening. They take the "nice" bits from the Bible and this is their God. They think God is just about love - they forget His other attributes. They have no desire to seek Him or know Him, they just like the title "Christian". They may even attend church because it's what they were raised doing and for them it's just part of their routine. they do not follow Jesus or His teaching and most people would not even be aware they have a belief - their behaviour is secular. This is the definition of a "lukewarm". If it is not indifference I don't know what is!

 

[dcontroversal]

Wow, that's some terrifying imagery.

Why is the grass greener on the World's side??

You have heard the old adage....The grass appears greener on the other side of the fence.....I know cows think so HAHAH

 

[EdisonTrent]

Well I have to respectfully disagree with this. If we are of the world we are not in God. If we are of God we are in God. Being on the fence would be an indifference to either the world or God. Having no concern of what the world says and having no concern of what God says.

Thats ok I understand, what your saying basically is that you are indifference to what I stated, in my view it's the same with God either we believe in him or we are indifference of him... People can have concerns of the world and God at the same time that's lukewarm,undecided, indifference means one has a agreement of one or the other not both at the same time

 

[sydlit]

LOL on the "Sorry Dan" part. Actually, it's called "going postal" for a good reason, and I bet Dan gets the connection. In an old South Philly Church-planting church we used to go to, one of our Leading Elders was a postman for his day job, as was his brother who also was with us in that church. (Teaching Elder left, so we had to hire Teaching Elders each week for service. They all came from our presbytery, and we came to know the four of them well. I'm not sure "Leading Elder" is the right word for that position, but they did much of the job that people think of when they think the word "pastor" without placing him behind the podium preaching -- the day to day job of pastor vs. Sunday pastor.) He taught us the post office only keeps those who work at 100% capacity 308 days a year. Preferably 315 days a week, since they only get five sick days a year, and will be reported if they go above two sick days. They'll be fired, if they take a sixth day.

It's so tough that man's wife gave birth, but he couldn't stay home to help her the first couple of days after giving birth. And, worse yet, she developed a life threatening goiter (it was cutting off her wind pipe and was caused by the pregnancy, so it was a tough decision whether they should operate -- which causes stress on the baby -- or wait for the baby to be born and hope it didn't cut off her ability to breathe through the rest of her pregnancy.) Yet, he had to work throughout that, and, after the pregnancy when she had her thyroid removed, he was written up for wasting a sick day. So, going postal is more accurate than you would think. Seriously a stressful job. (That and he was in charge of every single envelope or packages that traveled into or out of 19103 and 19106, which only you would know as all of Center City Philadelphia. He worked in 30th Street, so the busiest post office in Philly.)

But yeah, sometimes bullying is indifference. The bully doesn't care one way or the other about the target. But also sometimes bullying is target specific. One of my brothers is a bully. He targets female family members and targeted his ex-wife. It wasn't indifference. It's establishing himself in the pecking order, and everyone else learns to duck or incur his wrath too. The only ones who don't get that choice are the female family members. And he did that on purpose -- he lost to a brother, so stopped fighting him. The only thing that saved me was getting out and then marrying a big man. (Not saying God wasn't involved. I should have died a couple of times at my brother's hand.) The only thing that saved my sister was he had his own life by the time she came along. And the only thing that saved his ex was she was smart enough to give him everything in the divorce, (which was his goal.)

So there are more than one kind of bullies, but our answer really does come back to trusting Christ to change us to his good and to love through him in us. Otherwise, we are likely to go off the deep end in a variety of ways.

. Yes, and sorry for the confusion, I didn't mean to lump two issues in one, was just saying that sometimes treating another with indifference, whether by one or a group, can be a form of bullying. Also, being a victim of that form of bullying (indifference) may lead some to seek the attention they feel they're missing in some pretty drastic ways. I think that's the reason some ppl drive around blasting folks out with every form of F-, S-, or N-Word thru their stereo. It's a form of insecurity, a way to say, 'pay attention to ME', like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum. Maybe they were ignored, so they now ignore and disrespect others. I'm not excusing ppl who make a choice to be that way, just saying it CAN be perpetual. Thanks for the correction, as you know, I can't always put in the right words what I'm trying to say. I'm so sorry for the things you've been through, and I'm reminded of what a horrible person I've been myself, and it grieves me so much to know the hurt I've caused, and have no way to make things right. So glad to Jesus He pulled you through so much, and has you helping so many, even a dweeb like me (even tho you've now exposed 3 of us as being from philly (I left?) so INDIFFERENTLY) Maybe we should BOTH look for that 12 step program for blabbermouths --- 'On and On Anon' ! (I knew you'd be a welcome contributor here, I know a few others that I'd like to see here as well. THAnks, Elf, for a good one, sorry for runnin' on with it.
( I GOTTA get a new sig )

 

[Magenta]

I liked that movie!

Have you seen this one? Also on topic

 

[KennethC]

I suggest you go back and read it....the context is clear and I can just as easily say that it does not say that the COLD are not in his mouth......face it...you read in all the time stuff that is not there...continually I might add!

I have read it plenty of times and it is speaking of their works in the faith of rather they are for God or against Him:

Revelation 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

He knows our works rather we are for Him or against Him, and He would us rather be one way or the other because that would have our judgment set in stone before hand. We will receive eternal life for continuing in the faith following and keeping His teachings, or those who are cold that completely reject God and the Lord Jesus their judgment of eternal death is also set.

But as for those who are lukewarm still have a chance while in the flesh to repent of their ways, and stop being carnally/double minded. We are to serve the Lord or serve our flesh, we can not and are warned constantly that we can't serve both.

 

[Magenta]

Maybe we should BOTH look for that 12 step program for blabbermouths --- 'On and On Anon' !

Heh, that's a good one... but can anyone get a word in edgewise as such a meeting?

 

[EdisonTrent]

Somewhere the word lukewarm got thrown in, the word lukewarm means cold and hot mixed together..
the word indifference means no concern thus can't mean half concern and half not concern.

 

[KennethC]

Well, of the three types of people, He is only expelling ONE. The 'lukewarm" person. I think He (of course) accepts the "hot" one who lives fully in His grace.... but I think He also still holds out an expectation of possible change for the "cold" one, still solidly believing in law to save him.

It is the one who is content and satisfied that believing in grace, BUT making sure to hedge his bet with a lot of legal works to be what will "actually" save him, that God has no use for. Because they will NOT fully trust in only Him, and nothing else, yet they think they are comfortably "right" and Holy due to the extra insurance they try to buy through adding some of THEIR own works to what Jesus did. The big problem here is that they see no reason to change.... and this is not what God wants.

You are making it say He is only expelling one out of three, but that is not what it is saying at all.

He is only mainly pointing out the lukewarm to show that a person can not serve both Him and flesh and believe they still have salvation. Luke 12:43-48 is a parallel to this passage from Revelations;

(Hot)
43Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.

(Lukewarm)
45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.


(Cold)
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

 

[dcontroversal]

I have read it plenty of times and it is speaking of their works in the faith of rather they are for God or against Him:

Revelation 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

He knows our works rather we are for Him or against Him, and He would us rather be one way or the other because that would have our judgment set in stone before hand. We will receive eternal life for continuing in the faith following and keeping His teachings, or those who are cold that completely reject God and the Lord Jesus their judgment of eternal death is also set.

But as for those who are lukewarm still have a chance while in the flesh to repent of their ways, and stop being carnally/double minded. We are to serve the Lord or serve our flesh, we can not and are warned constantly that we can't serve both.

Show more verses in context where God would have someone be cold (in sin and contrary to the truth) your theology is not jiving with the consistent call of God to come out from sin!

 

[elf3]

Thats ok I understand, what your saying basically is that you are indifference to what I stated, in my view it's the same with God either we believe in him or we are indifference of him... People can have concerns of the world and God at the same time that's lukewarm,undecided, indifference means one has a agreement of one or the other not both at the same time

No I wasn't "indifferent" to what you stated. I said I disagreed with it. If would have been indifferent to your statement then I would not have commented on it. There is a difference between disagreeing and indifference. Just because I disagreed did not mean I was indifferent.

As for your "definition" of indifference refer to the OP where I define it according to the dictionary. It is having no preference one way or the other, not agreeing with one way or the other. If you agree one way or the other then you are not indifferent.

 

[Willie-T]

You are making it say He is only expelling one out of three, but that is not what it is saying at all.

He is only mainly pointing out the lukewarm to show that a person can not serve both Him and flesh and believe they still have salvation. Luke 12:43-48 is a parallel to this passage from Revelations;

(Hot)
43Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 44Truly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all that he has.

(Lukewarm)
45 But if that servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and be drunk, 46 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.47 And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.


(Cold)
48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

You actually got something right...... sort of.

He truly IS expelling ONLY ONE. The one who has mixed hot and cold. Now, what ARE hot and cold?

We both agree (to a degree) that "hot" is somehow referring to God. But you say "cold" is "mammon" and I say it is "Law."

The first big obstacle we hit is that these people WERE THE CHURCH. They were not gentiles out raising Hell. They were originally God-Fearing and Worshiping (Jesus said both words mean the same thing) people. So, we cannot rightfully say these were people living in, or like, the world. They were the worshipers of God who were of The Church in Laodicea.

You are going to have to do some fancy footwork to claim that they were attempting to serve mammon. This church loved God.

No, I believe they were having a hard time leaving their worship of God through the venue of following the Laws they had known and followed for their entire lives. And God no longer wanted them trying to fulfill the Law that He had already sent His son to fulfill............ and, ESPECIALLY not bringing the Law back into the Salvation Jesus died for us to have as a totally free gift.

They were, in effect, saying: "Yeah, Jesus did a good thing, but we have to keep on saving ourselves just the same way we did for thousands of years before He showed up." "He was OK, but not quite enough to REALLY do the job"........ "but we will fix that shortcoming of His by still making the following the Law our true and complete Salvation."

 

[sydlit]

Heh, that's a good one... but can anyone get a word in edgewise as such a meeting?

Thanks for sharin', I'm not done yet, thanks for sharin', I'm not done yet, thanks for sharin', I'm not done yet.......

 

[EdisonTrent]

but for the believer that would be lukewarm.. Indifference is no concern either way.. Like the fence deal if one is indifference of the world and God at the same time there isn't even a fence to sit on there's nothing but open space, the fence is lukewarm.
When one is sitting on a fence means he is trying to choose one or the other.
Now one can have have no concern(indifference)for the world and all concern for God or only concern for the world and no concern(indifference) for God.

 

[elf3]

Edison I believe you have confused me or maybe I just confused myself I'm not sure. Lol. ill reread and see if I might have said something I didn't actually mean to say or I said a thought wrong. Give me a bit as I have some things to take care of.

 

[EdisonTrent]

Edison I believe you have confused me or maybe I just confused myself I'm not sure. Lol. ill reread and see if I might have said something I didn't actually mean to say or I said a thought wrong. Give me a bit as I have some things to take care of.

lol of coarse take your time, though my answer to all this I say, surely wouldn't be liked and I'm not sure I'm ready to reveal my answer though I will say this my answer can be found in Titus 1 2 3

 

[Angela53510]

Here is a Biblical definition of indifference from Biblegatewaytools:

"A neutral attitude to God that is as dangerous as hostility. It is condemned as a rejection of God’s love and of the needs of others"

Here are a couple verses which describe indifference to me. From a Christian perspective, of course!

"no one understands;no one seeks for God." Romans 3:11

"For this people's heart has grown dull,
and with their ears they can barely hear,
and their eyes they have closed,
lest they should see with their eyes
and hear with their ears
and understand with their heart
and turn, and I would heal them." Matt 13:15

This one seems to indicate that being cold is not a good thing.

"And because lawlessness will be increased, the love of many will grow cold." Matt 24:12