Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?

[eternally-gratefull]

Speaking about twisting. Did Jesus teach anything different than His Father? And if so, how would you explain these verse?


John 5:30-32 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

What does this have ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE MOSAIC LAW??

I am sorry my friend, I have never seen anyone want to force the law in so many things.

Jesus did what his father wanted. He sacrificed, He did miracles. He died on the cross.

He did not do those things by trying to obey the mosaic covenant. He did not have to. He understood the law of love.

Can you say what God has given to us in everything that He has done is righteous and true? If so, one has to say that the Mosaic Law is righteous and true. We are the ones who failed. So if God's Law is righteous and true, why do we throw it into the sea of forgetfulness, and teach others to do the same? Therefore, since Jesus' teachings were still under the Old Testament, we would have to throw His teachings away as we do the Law. I WILL NOT DO THAT! I will not listen to anti law people. If you throw away God's law, you have to throw away the true teachings of Christ Jesus, and then your salvation is vain.

lol. No, Thats not your problem/ Your problem is you take the law other than what it was intended.

Again, Thou shalt not covet. Can you tell me by that law how to do this??

Come on. Lets see how you do it by those words.. There ARE NO INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN now are there? it just says DO NOT DO THIS.. So how can one be righteous by just this command? THEY CAN'T, If they could WE WOULD DO IT.

I am not throwing the law out. I took it for its purpose., It lead me to Christ, and continues to show me my sin.

What I refuse to do, is try to be righteous by doing it, BECAUSE I CAN:T DO IT. I instead follow the spirit. which SHOWS ME HOW TO DO IT, where the LAW FAILED, CHRIST AND THE SPIRIT OVERCOMES.

I do not covet because the law says do not covet. I do not covet because I LOVE MY NEIGHBOR, and if God blessed them with something I desire. GREAT! God has a reason, who am I to question his reason?? If God wants me to have one HE WILL GIVE ME ONE, But I will not dwell on the fact my neighbor was blessed. I WILL PRAISE GOD!

what happens if I do not do this? but instead look inside? I covet. Now I did not need the law to do any of this. I sinned. ALL the law thus could do is show me I SINNED. THATS IT!!

 

[NiceneCreed]

Of course it is. Those of us who have faith and the love of God spread abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, want the lost to understand why they need salvation through Jesus Christ. By understanding the spiritual principles of the law we can minister using this schoolmaster God gave to the faithful. By continuing to study this tool we can be an effective witness to the lost. We know that God gives to us what is perfect because He is perfect and to minister by any other avenue is a mistake. We are not to minister using the law relating it with fleshly interpretations of condemnation only. We are to minister in the spiritual realm via this God-given schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Next, the schoolmaster is given as a route to Jesus Christ. If we deny the schoolmaster after faith, we inadvertently stop walking the road we once walked at the beginning of being born again. Paul talked about himself and the war inside all of us who have received faith through Jesus Christ. Before judging that statement as being wrong, please meditate on what I am saying. There is no condemnation in my train of thought toward anyone. Condemnation belongs to God only.

Galatians 5:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
If we are to die daily we are to come to Christ daily, and not boast of our faith without the schoolmaster.
Luke 9:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
1 Corinthians 15:31 (KJV)
[SUP]31 [/SUP]I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
To summarize, we can use the schoolmaster to die daily, follow Christ daily, and minister to the lost. As far as I can see, the law is the perfect avenue because God is perfect, and gives us all good things, to accomplish His will. Are we justified in the works of the law? Absolutely not. We are educated by the law to see the state we are in until the day the body is resurrected or changed in the twinkling of an eye.
James 1:22-25 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

I didn't fully read your post, but to reply to the initial question: Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?:

Yes, it is beneficial. Yet, it does not have any intrinsic redemptive qualities which can bring salvation to mankind. Yet it could also be said those with faith will naturally obey Mosaic law, at least the ethical part.

 

[just-us-2]

No my friend you do.

Baloney! And so there is no mistake about what I mean since there is so much difficulty with the English language in here: Definition of BALONEY : pretentious nonsense

Galatians 3:19 (KJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Who's got it backwards???????

Jesus shows us the law by us knowing when we look at jesus and the law. we can not find any sin in him.

Of course we see no sin in Him! The law was given because of transgression, not the other way around!

He shows us, because it shows us our own sin, and thus our need for someone who has no sin.

it shows us, because according to the law. If you break it, a sin offering of blood must be given, which leads us to christ as the one and only sin offering.

again. The law says do not covet. it does not tell me how not to do it. if I look to the law and do not covet. I get a personal pride. because I have kept the law (which is what the pharisees did).

if I look to God and realize the law of love and faith, i do not need the law which says do not covet. because I would not be tempted to in the first place.

We have the law in many forms - such as most governments in this country from the local level on up have many basic principles of the Mosaic Law in them without saying that a given law on the books is based on what God told Moses. If God's original laws had not told those ancient human beings that they should not kill other people, would any laws exist now that carry severe punishments for killing another human being? How would we know it is wrong?

however, if i do have a failure and my flesh falls and I do covet. again All the law can do is ocnvict me and show me I am still a sinner. It still us totally unable to tell me how to break the temptation.

God expects us to use the brain He gave us. If one has no communication with the Father, he/she is probably going to have one hard time moving from knowing of one's own sin to avoiding that same sin over and over again.

why is this so hard for so many people to see this??

Because some of us refuse to stay stuck in a state of reduced spiritual function, a state of reduced desire for truth, and love our Father, El Shaddai, so much that we are driven to pursue a relationship with Him and voraciously devour all He says, with a hungry heart and the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit who helps us understand the many things God has for us in His Word... His WHOLE Word.

 

[just-me]

I didn't fully read your post, but to reply to the initial question: Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?:

Yes, it is beneficial. Yet, it does not have any intrinsic redemptive qualities which can bring salvation to mankind. Yet it could also be said those with faith will naturally obey Mosaic law, at least the ethical part.

Yes... If we truly love our God, we will want to obey those laws that show us manifold Spiritual aspects. If we are saved, we will want to know all we can about His righteousness, and faithfulness. Wanting to know His law, is wanting to know His character. i.e. "Name." We then can pray according to his will.


James 5:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

 

[just-me]

Yes... If we truly love our God, we will want to obey those laws that show us manifold Spiritual aspects. If we are saved, we will want to know all we can about His righteousness, and faithfulness. Wanting to know His law, is wanting to know His character. i.e. "Name." We then can pray according to his will.


James 5:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1 John 3:22-24 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I didn't fully read your post, but to reply to the initial question: Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?:

Yes, it is beneficial. Yet, it does not have any intrinsic redemptive qualities which can bring salvation to mankind. Yet it could also be said those with faith will naturally obey Mosaic law, at least the ethical part.

Do they obey it by looking at it. Or by looking at the law of faith and love? Huge difference.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Baloney! And so there is no mistake about what I mean since there is so much difficulty with the English language in here: Definition of BALONEY : pretentious nonsense

I guess according to your interpretation. If you say it it is ok. But if someone says it to you. it is pretensious nonsense. How more hypocritical can you get?

No wonder people who turn to law turn me off. Your all the same. You have attitudes and your a bunch of hypocrites.

Sorry if I am harsh, But if you really sat down and looked at what you just did, you would see it.

Galatians 3:19 (KJV)

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Who's got it backwards???????

YOU DO. YOU CAN"T EVEN READ CORRECTLY OR IF YA DID, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE JUST DID WHAT YOU DID THINKING YOU WERE RIGHT.

Can you read? the law was added why?? BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS. Until when? TO THE SEED TO WHOM THE PROMISE WAS MADE. Which was who?? CHRIST.

It was intended to keep people humble and know they were sinners, until the seed came, so they would KNOW THEY NEEDED HIM. because why?? ALL HAVE SINNED.

Of course we see no sin in Him! The law was given because of transgression, not the other way around!

lol. Thanks you just proved me right.. This is what I have been saying ALL ALONG

We have the law in many forms - such as most governments in this country from the local level on up have many basic principles of the Mosaic Law in them without saying that a given law on the books is based on what God told Moses. If God's original laws had not told those ancient human beings that they should not kill other people, would any laws exist now that carry severe punishments for killing another human being? How would we know it is wrong?

lol. Cain knew it was wrong.. Again all you do is show you do not understand what God has written in our hearts.

And how does this answer how we are to not covet by just looking at the law which says you will not covet??

Do you say God says no so I don;t do it? That is legalism and phariseeism and has for 4000 years proved to be a BAD way of doing it.

God expects us to use the brain He gave us. If one has no communication with the Father, he/she is probably going to have one hard time moving from knowing of one's own sin to avoiding that same sin over and over again.

Better yet. Stop using the brain, It fails you over and over, Use the spirit who was given to you. He will show you the way. Again you turn to self righteousness. and not the righteousness which comes from God. That is the problem with turning to law. It is SELF MOTIVATED, SELF GLORIFYING, and does NOT PLEASE GOD

Because some of us refuse to stay stuck in a state of reduced spiritual function, a state of reduced desire for truth, and love our Father, El Shaddai, so much that we are driven to pursue a relationship with Him and voraciously devour all He says, with a hungry heart and the help of the indwelling Holy Spirit who helps us understand the many things God has for us in His Word... His WHOLE Word.

lol.. Yep.. That is why you will probably never know how. and cpntinue to be stuck in legalism.

This WHOLE response to me, you did not even answer my quyestion. so I will ask again.

How can you know HOW NOT TO COVET by just reading DO NOT COVET?

Do you understand that when someone gives you a command, If he does nbot tell you how to do it. 99.9 persent of people will FAIL to do it right, yet probably 90 percent of people will claim they did?

this is the problem with law!

God gave us the HOW in the New Testament. If we do the how because we understand it. WE DO NOT NEED TO KNOW THE COMMAND. it becomes NATURAL.

 

[Bookends]

Speaking about twisting. Did Jesus teach anything different than His Father? And if so, how would you explain these verse?


John 5:30-32 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]There is another that beareth witness of me; and I know that the witness which he witnesseth of me is true.

What does this have ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE MOSAIC LAW??

I am sorry my friend, I have never seen anyone want to force the law in so many things.

Jesus did what his father wanted. He sacrificed, He did miracles. He died on the cross.

He did not do those things by trying to obey the mosaic covenant. He did not have to. He understood the law of love.




lol. No, Thats not your problem/ Your problem is you take the law other than what it was intended.

Again, Thou shalt not covet. Can you tell me by that law how to do this??

Come on. Lets see how you do it by those words.. There ARE NO INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN now are there? it just says DO NOT DO THIS.. So how can one be righteous by just this command? THEY CAN'T, If they could WE WOULD DO IT.

I am not throwing the law out. I took it for its purpose., It lead me to Christ, and continues to show me my sin.

What I refuse to do, is try to be righteous by doing it, BECAUSE I CAN:T DO IT. I instead follow the spirit. which SHOWS ME HOW TO DO IT, where the LAW FAILED, CHRIST AND THE SPIRIT OVERCOMES.

I do not covet because the law says do not covet. I do not covet because I LOVE MY NEIGHBOR, and if God blessed them with something I desire. GREAT! God has a reason, who am I to question his reason?? If God wants me to have one HE WILL GIVE ME ONE, But I will not dwell on the fact my neighbor was blessed. I WILL PRAISE GOD!

what happens if I do not do this? but instead look inside? I covet. Now I did not need the law to do any of this. I sinned. ALL the law thus could do is show me I SINNED. THATS IT!!

This reminds me of one of my first posts, I regret naming it with "refute this" but I said the Law was meant to be broken.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/48443-refue-law-made-broken.html

 

[Shiloah]

1 John 3:22-24 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

This says it all.

 

[Shiloah]

I guess according to your interpretation. If you say it it is ok. But if someone says it to you. it is pretensious nonsense. How more hypocritical can you get?

No wonder people who turn to law turn me off. Your all the same. You have attitudes and your a bunch of hypocrites.

Sorry if I am harsh, But if you really sat down and looked at what you just did, you would see it.


YOU DO. YOU CAN"T EVEN READ CORRECTLY OR IF YA DID, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE JUST DID WHAT YOU DID THINKING YOU WERE RIGHT.

Can you read? the law was added why?? BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS. Until when? TO THE SEED TO WHOM THE PROMISE WAS MADE. Which was who?? CHRIST.

It was intended to keep people humble and know they were sinners, until the seed came, so they would KNOW THEY NEEDED HIM. because why?? ALL HAVE SINNED.



lol. Thanks you just proved me right.. This is what I have been saying ALL ALONG



lol. Cain knew it was wrong.. Again all you do is show you do not understand what God has written in our hearts.

And how does this answer how we are to not covet by just looking at the law which says you will not covet??

Do you say God says no so I don;t do it? That is legalism and phariseeism and has for 4000 years proved to be a BAD way of doing it.


Better yet. Stop using the brain, It fails you over and over, Use the spirit who was given to you. He will show you the way. Again you turn to self righteousness. and not the righteousness which comes from God. That is the problem with turning to law. It is SELF MOTIVATED, SELF GLORIFYING, and does NOT PLEASE GOD



lol.. Yep.. That is why you will probably never know how. and cpntinue to be stuck in legalism.

This WHOLE response to me, you did not even answer my quyestion. so I will ask again.

How can you know HOW NOT TO COVET by just reading DO NOT COVET?

Do you understand that when someone gives you a command, If he does nbot tell you how to do it. 99.9 persent of people will FAIL to do it right, yet probably 90 percent of people will claim they did?

this is the problem with law!

God gave us the HOW in the New Testament. If we do the how because we understand it. WE DO NOT NEED TO KNOW THE COMMAND. it becomes NATURAL.

Amazing how people totally ignore scriptures while accusing those presenting them of hypocrisy. I myself don't need to reread the 10 commandments to know them by heart. What's that got to do with not keeping them?

Bizarre concept to call people legalists that simply do what Christ said.

"Those that love me do what I say."

The apparent blindness over this issue is nothing short of appalling.

 

[Grandpa]

Do you have scripture in your Bible that states that Jesus said the law is of no value to those that believe in Him? Or do you not realize that all of the teachings of Jesus were during the time of the Old Testament. The Old Testament was in full effect clear up until Jesus suffered and died for your sins and mine?

The Lord Jesus describes what the Law says to us in Matthew 5. He sums it up here.
Matthew 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Whenever you work at the Law and you see that you are not perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect this condemns you. It shows you that you sin, falling short of the mark set for you.

2 Corinthians 3:6-9
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

After Jesus shows you the condemnation of the Law does He just leave you in that condemnation or does He give us a solution? Of course He gives us a solution.

Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

John 15:3-8
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
[SUP]8[/SUP]Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.


Don't you know that the Lord Jesus established a New Way. One that is better than the Old Testament ways?

Galatians 3:12 [SUP] [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Romans 4:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

 

[just-us-2]

I guess according to your interpretation. If you say it it is ok. But if someone says it to you. it is pretensious nonsense. How more hypocritical can you get?

No wonder people who turn to law turn me off. Your all the same. You have attitudes and your a bunch of hypocrites.

Sorry if I am harsh, But if you really sat down and looked at what you just did, you would see it.


YOU DO. YOU CAN"T EVEN READ CORRECTLY OR IF YA DID, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE JUST DID WHAT YOU DID THINKING YOU WERE RIGHT.

Can you read? the law was added why?? BECAUSE OF TRANSGRESSIONS. Until when? TO THE SEED TO WHOM THE PROMISE WAS MADE. Which was who?? CHRIST.

It was intended to keep people humble and know they were sinners, until the seed came, so they would KNOW THEY NEEDED HIM. because why?? ALL HAVE SINNED.



lol. Thanks you just proved me right.. This is what I have been saying ALL ALONG



lol. Cain knew it was wrong.. Again all you do is show you do not understand what God has written in our hearts.

And how does this answer how we are to not covet by just looking at the law which says you will not covet??

Do you say God says no so I don;t do it? That is legalism and phariseeism and has for 4000 years proved to be a BAD way of doing it.


Better yet. Stop using the brain, It fails you over and over, Use the spirit who was given to you. He will show you the way. Again you turn to self righteousness. and not the righteousness which comes from God. That is the problem with turning to law. It is SELF MOTIVATED, SELF GLORIFYING, and does NOT PLEASE GOD



lol.. Yep.. That is why you will probably never know how. and cpntinue to be stuck in legalism.

This WHOLE response to me, you did not even answer my quyestion. so I will ask again.

How can you know HOW NOT TO COVET by just reading DO NOT COVET?

Do you understand that when someone gives you a command, If he does nbot tell you how to do it. 99.9 persent of people will FAIL to do it right, yet probably 90 percent of people will claim they did?

this is the problem with law!

God gave us the HOW in the New Testament. If we do the how because we understand it. WE DO NOT NEED TO KNOW THE COMMAND. it becomes NATURAL.

2 Timothy 2:23-26 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.
[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
Romans 14:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Titus 3:9-11 (KJV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

 

[just-me]

Before joining CC I was in contact with 2 Jewish rabbis in Jerusalem. Now, before you that reject the Mosaic Law as useless, please keep in mind that I have been saved every day since 1972. I am a firm believer in Christ as, not just a prophet as the rabbis, but have seen the work of the Holy Spirit in my personal life ever since. For those of you who have presented arguments that the Mosaic Law is only good for one thing, and that's condemnation, I give you reality that is common sense. I have seen more respect, and sincere love for the human race from these rabbis, than from Christians that present arguments against the Mosaic Law. With that said, if I were not a believer in Christ Jesus as the Messiah, I would be strongly tempted to adopt these rabbis' religion that is non Messianic. Therefore, for me alone, you have shown less love according to the scriptures, than these said non-believers. Your speech has produced the opposite persuasion that you have been preaching.

May God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ bless you with wisdom.

Romans 10:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

Romans 11:11 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

How can we provoke these non-Messianic people to be jealous of us because of our faith in Christ when we treat each other like this? If you really think about it, (rhetorically) what scripture did Paul use to prove to the Gentiles that Jesus Christ was the true Messiah?

 

[SarahM777]

Amazing how people totally ignore scriptures while accusing those presenting them of hypocrisy. I myself don't need to reread the 10 commandments to know them by heart. What's that got to do with not keeping them?

Bizarre concept to call people legalists that simply do what Christ said.

"Those that love me do what I say."

The apparent blindness over this issue is nothing short of appalling.

UMM But that bodes a question,do we understand what Jesus what trying to tell us when He said this

Matthew 5

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Do you understand just how righteous the Pharisees were by human standards? First they MEMORIZED the first five chapters of the Bible. So they knew the law far better then anyone of us ever will,they knew the letter of the law and they did the letter of the law. But somehow what often gets left out is this when Jesus got to the heart of the law

Matthew 5

21 “You have heard that it was said to the people long ago, ‘You shall not murder,[a] and anyone who murders will be subject to judgment.’22 But I tell you that anyone who is angry with a brother or sister[b][c] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to a brother or sister, ‘Raca,’[d] is answerable to the court. And anyone who says, ‘You fool!’ will be in danger of the fire of hell.
23 “Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in front of the altar. First go and be reconciled to them; then come and offer your gift.
25 “Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison.26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’[e] 28But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart.29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

Do we really understand how HIGH THE BAR REALLY IS when Jesus said what it means to truly obey the commandments? Does that mean that when one is born that He doesn't help us do so? Of course not. Jesus got to the heart of the matter and if we leave that out we are in a bad place.

See if anyone truly thinks they are truly obeying the commandments as closely as God has intended us to try comparing your life and thoughts to what Jesus so plainly said. Jesus takes even into the thought life.

 

[just-me]

SarahM777

Good thoughts you present. I started another thread to exemplify the reality, that all of Jesus' teaching were of the Old Testament before He was crucified. There is no contradiction between the OT and the NT. They are both just as relevant today as they ever have been. God doesn't change, and neither does Jesus. God bless sis

 

[Grandpa]

The Lord Jesus gave us a New Way. A better Way.


Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Romans 4:3-5
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Matthew 11:28-30
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[SUP]29 [/SUP]Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

 

[just-me]

Jeremiah 6:16-17 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.


2 Peter 2:17-22 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP]These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

 

[Grandpa]

1 Corinthians 15:55-58
[SUP]55 [/SUP]O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
[SUP]56 [/SUP]The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
[SUP]57 [/SUP]But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]58 [/SUP]Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

Romans 4:13-17
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,
[SUP]17 [/SUP](As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

 

[Shiloah]

What I see here is the truest example of "FALLING UPON DEAF EARS."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amazing how people totally ignore scriptures while accusing those presenting them of hypocrisy.

Who is ignoring scripture? seems like those trying to obey a law which can not be obeyed, And those trying to say this is what makes us righteous. When scripture clearly states this is not the case.

I myself don't need to reread the 10 commandments to know them by heart. What's that got to do with not keeping them?

What does that have to do with keeping them? Do they tell you how to keep them? if they do not. All they can do is tell you whether you have done it or not. And why does everyone want to stick to ten?? THERE ARE WAY MORE THAN TEN!!

Bizarre concept to call people legalists that simply do what Christ said.

If they were doing this, I would not call them a legalist. Jesus told them HOW to do it. But they do not want to see this, they want to go back to the what not to does. and then judge others who do not go to them, But take jesus at his word. of how to do it.

"Those that love me do what I say."

Yes and what did he say? Two commands I give you. Not ten, not 600 and some. Do these two and you will not break all the others..

But if you want to go back to all the others and think that will show you HOW to keep them. Thats up to you. The jews tried this and failed utterly!

The apparent blindness over this issue is nothing short of appalling.

We finally agree on something!