Jesus is God!

[jaybird88]

Yeah, that's what we call an "easy out." (sigh)

Guess when Jesus said "before Abraham was, I am" He was really referring to God the Father and not Himself huh?

Guess when He said that the Holy Spirit "proceeded from God" He meant it was really God coming down and not the Holy Spirit...........

"easy outs" sigh

there is no need for the sarcasm. i promise you i am your friend. om not saying these things cause i want to upset people.

"before Abraham was, - I am" how many times does Jesus refer to His Father here? why not just say me? before Abraham Jesus was there, but that does not make Him the Almighty.
"proceeded from God" - spirit of the Lord, power of the Lord, word of the Lord, these are all from the Father and i dont get how any would become independent beings in additional to the Lord.

Where can you find that the Apostles were water baptized?

Where can you find what the thorn in Paul's flesh was?

not a clue, didnt research it. i get your point but i dont think thats a big a deal as what we are talkong about.

One could start with reading Isaiah, Chapter 35, vs. 4-6 I suppose though.

im not familiar with this one. looks to be talking about the Father saving His people from their enemies. but like i said its one im not so failure with.

Isaiah prophesies of Jesus................AND HE CALLS HIM..........."your God."

im assuming your referring to Immanuel? i cant think of a better title for Jesus.

 

[wattie]

Look, Jaybird..

Jesus forgave sin in the 3rd person.. only God can do this. Jesus wasn't just given this power.. He did it off his own bat.

This is like someone coming and hitting you.. and then Jesus says 'I forgive you' the person who hit you. No one has the authority to do that aside from God.

Also.. there is the Jewish concept of Agency

This means when someone acts on behalf of another- the message becomes that of the originator.

So Jesus saying things like - 'If I by the hand of the Father....' and 'I and the Father are one' .. etc.. being an agent like that..

To the Jews.. this is like saying 'I am God'.. by the way they understand Agency.

I have already posted to you along these lines.

The plain fact of the matter.. as this thread is saying.. is that Jesus is fully God.

You just can't get round that.

Father.. fully God.. Jesus fully God.. Holy Spirit fully God..

One being.. God.. in three persons/essences.

This is not polytheism.. it is not pagan..

Last thing:

These are Jesus' words:

Rev_22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.


Nuff said

 

[p_rehbein]

there is no need for the sarcasm. i promise you i am your friend. om not saying these things cause i want to upset people.


im not familiar with this one. looks to be talking about the Father saving His people from their enemies. but like i said its one im not so failure with.



im assuming your referring to Immanuel? i cant think of a better title for Jesus.

The 35th Chapter of Isaiah is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus Christ. As is the 53rd Chapter........

As for sarcasm, do you not understand when you come to a Christian Forum and denounce Jesus our Christ, our Lord and Savior that folks are not going to take it well? Sarcasm is getting off easy............to denounce the Deity of Christ is to denounce Christ, to denounce Christ is to denounce God, to denounce both God and Christ is to denounce the Holy Spirit, to denounce all or ANY ONE of these is to denounce the Holy Trinity.

ANY PERSON who dose such as this IS NOT a Christian. They are not a believer. Now, that isn't sarcasm, it's a spiritual warning that if you do any of this, you had better repent and seek God.

 

[jaybird88]

Look, Jaybird..

Jesus forgave sin in the 3rd person.. only God can do this. Jesus wasn't just given this power.. He did it off his own bat.

is this not explained in IS 11?

The plain fact of the matter.. as this thread is saying.. is that Jesus is fully God.

You just can't get round that.

i cant get around the the Father saying he is one, Jesus giving glory to the Father if He Himself is the Father.

Father.. fully God.. Jesus fully God.. Holy Spirit fully God..

One being.. God.. in three persons/essences.

This is not polytheism.. it is not pagan.. [/QUOTE]

so which god/being do we worship? or are you saying the the Father, Son and Holy spirit have merged into a new god and its name is the god head? so the message of Jesus was to no longer serve the Father but serve the god head, 3 gods in one?

Last thing:

These are Jesus' words:

Rev_22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Nuff said

how do you know this is Jesus and not the Father?

mark29
“The most important one,” answered Jesus, “is this: ‘Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one.

the God Jesus is referring to here is His God as well as the people as he refers to Him as "our"

he also makes a specific point that the Lord is one.
if Jesus and the Father were the same what would be the point of the temptation? why would the Father need to be tested? the Almighty does not need a refresher coarse.

over and over in Jesus teachings He is bringing people to the Father, teaching them to pray to the Father, give Glory to the Father, turning them back to the Father. never do i see Him dividing the Father into 3 or confusing people minds not knowing who to pray to.

I hope none of you think I am being a troll or trying to upset anyone. this is serious matter to me. when i pray i want focus in my prayers and i want them to go where they need to go, heard by the One that they need to go to. when i hear 3 gods in one it gives me doubts in how i serve and how i pray.
i believe with all my heart that to rebel against the Son is to Rebel against the Father. i dont want to say anything to dishonor the Son but do not want to take any glory from the Father. i just want to better understand the message of Jesus. i hope that makes sense.

 

[Bowman]

i cant get around the the Father saying he is one, Jesus giving glory to the Father if He Himself is the Father.

Jesus is NOT The Father...but He IS God.

How is it that you don't yet know what The Trinity is......?

 

[Jeff_56]

[h=3]Matthew 16:17 Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah ...[/h]biblehub.com/matthew/16-17.htm - Cached - Similar
And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah! For flesh and
blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.

....How is it that you don't yet know ......?

 

[jaybird88]

The 35th Chapter of Isaiah is a prophecy of the coming of Jesus Christ. As is the 53rd Chapter........

As for sarcasm, do you not understand when you come to a Christian Forum and denounce Jesus our Christ, our Lord and Savior that folks are not going to take it well? Sarcasm is getting off easy............to denounce the Deity of Christ is to denounce Christ, to denounce Christ is to denounce God, to denounce both God and Christ is to denounce the Holy Spirit, to denounce all or ANY ONE of these is to denounce the Holy Trinity.

ANY PERSON who dose such as this IS NOT a Christian. They are not a believer. Now, that isn't sarcasm, it's a spiritual warning that if you do any of this, you had better repent and seek God.

listen and listen good my friend. i did not denounce the Father our Lord and neither did i the Son. i do not care for you falsely accusing me of this. i do know what the Almighty says of falsely accusing people and it is a sin He hates. Proverbs 6:17

i dont get what you are trying to prove with all the hateful words. i am truly trying to learn about Jesus and you are acting like a child. not trying to pick a fight but get a grip, step back and take a deep breath.

you had no response to anything i posted which clearly shows where i get my view from, interesting.

 

[p_rehbein]

QUOTE:

I hope none of you think I am being a troll or trying to upset anyone. this is serious matter to me. when i pray i want focus in my prayers and i want them to go where they need to go, heard by the One that they need to go to. when i hear 3 gods in one it gives me doubts in how i serve and how i pray.
i believe with all my heart that to rebel against the Son is to Rebel against the Father. i dont want to say anything to dishonor the Son but do not want to take any glory from the Father. i just want to better understand the message of Jesus. i hope that makes sense.

END QUOTATION

Ok, while I am concerned about doing so, I am going to take you at your word and see how it goes.

First: No one here is going to convince you of anything, or change your mind about any doubts or beliefs you currently have. That is the job of the Holy Spirit. At best, all we can do is point you in the direction of Scripture, and it is up to you to read the Scriptures, and with a sincere and contrite heart seek God's Truth through the guidance of the Holy Spirit who is tasked to do just that with all who sincerely seek God and His Truth.

Second: I am not being "snarky" when I say that a person can not profess to be a Christian if they deny the Deity of Christ. It doesn't work that way. The very definition of Christian is a person who believes in and is a disciple of Jesus Christ. How can one claim to be this and then deny Him? How does that make sense to anyone?

Third: Only through sincere study and the guidance of the Holy Spirit will one truly receive spiritual understanding of Scripture in my opinion. One can glean some insights from the teachings of Pastors and such, but true spiritual understanding is imparted by the Holy Spirit. However, if one deny Christ AND the Holy Trinity, how does that person expect to receive this understanding from One they deny?

My honest suggestion is that you sincerely seek to understand what God's Salvation Plan is, and how to achieve His wondrous gift of saving Grace...........which IS through FAITH.....and that faith is BELIEVING IN Jesus Christ. Until one does this, they will never achieve spiritual understanding in my opinion.

Those who deny Christ can not claim eternal salvation, for Scripture clearly shows that eternal salvation ONLY comes through believing in Him! Please, if you are serious, worry less about seeking "man's wisdom," and concentrate your energy on seeking God's Wisdom.

 

[p_rehbein]

listen and listen good my friend. i did not denounce the Father our Lord and neither did i the Son. i do not care for you falsely accusing me of this. i do know what the Almighty says of falsely accusing people and it is a sin He hates. Proverbs 6:17

i dont get what you are trying to prove with all the hateful words. i am truly trying to learn about Jesus and you are acting like a child. not trying to pick a fight but get a grip, step back and take a deep breath.

you had no response to anything i posted which clearly shows where i get my view from, interesting.

I will ignore this comment..............read what I have posted........and try to do so with understanding.......

 

[p_rehbein]

An Article that might help you to better understand............

(excerpt)

To begin to prove that Jesus Christ is God, you can point out that it says in GEN 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." Who created the heavens & the earth? God did!

JOH 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."JOH 1:2 "He was in the beginning with God." The Deity of Christ always existed.JOH 1:3 "All things came into being by Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.""
In eternity past, Jesus Christ had the same essence as the Father and Spirit. In time, He still had the same functions of deity, but He also became true humanity. He is now different than the Father and the Holy Spirit, because He is also true humanity. Therefore, He is unique!

COL 1:15 "And He [Jesus Christ] keeps on being the exact image of the invisible God, the privileged first-born with reference to all creation."



(found here)

​

[h=3]Deity of Christ proven in scripture - Doctrines...[/h]

 

[jaybird88]

Jesus is NOT The Father...but He IS God.

How is it that you don't yet know what The Trinity is......?

please read my other post which clearly explains why the 3 gods in one does not make sense to me.

 

[Bowman]

please read my other post which clearly explains why the 3 gods in one does not make sense to me.

The Trinity is ONE God.....NOT three gods.

No wonder you are so confused.....you are fighting a strawman of your very own creation.

You Trinity-deniers waste so much valuable time fighting against your own version of The Trinity that it is almost comical.

Do yourself a favor and learn what The Trinity is before wasting anymore of your time on your own personal homebrew version...

 

[jaybird88]

The Trinity is ONE God.....NOT three gods.

No wonder you are so confused.....you are fighting a strawman of your very own creation.

You Trinity-deniers waste so much valuable time fighting against your own version of The Trinity that it is almost comical.

Do yourself a favor and learn what The Trinity is before wasting anymore of your time on your own personal homebrew version...

yes i get confused when man says 3 equals 1 and the bible says there is only one. i posted many things that backs what i am saying yet no one seems to want to explain what i am not seeing. i will re post one and you can explain it to me

if Jesus and the Father were the same what would be the point of the temptation? why would the Father need to be tested? the Almighty does not need a refresher course.

 

[michael56]

Here we have your belief God himself is an angel based on the belief Christ sting I am ok roves ge is God himself. Even the jws don't go that far

Replying to bowman

 

[MarcR]

Jesus using the phrase I AM does not prove he is God. An angel met Moses in the burning bush, the angel actually spoke the words of God from the bush. We would not say God is an angel. Therefore Jesus-who spoke the words of God on this earth cannot be called God himself on the evidence of him using the words I AM

Exo 3:2 speaks of the angel of the Lord; which is a title of the pre-incarnate Jesus; by whom God appeared to man on numerous occasions in the OT. There are two fancy words which describe such appearances: Ghristophany and theophany.

We see in verse 4, that the Angel of the Lord is in fact God.

 

[michael56]

Exo 3:2 speaks of the angel of the Lord; which is a title of the pre-incarnate Jesus; by whom God appeared to man on numerous occasions in the OT. There are two fancy words which describe such appearances: Ghristophany and theophany.

We see in verse 4, that the Angel of the Lord is in fact God.

Hi marc
Acts 7:35 states God sent Moses to lead the Israelites through the angel who appeared to him in the bush. This would draw a distinction between God and the angel in my views though I accept your view is widely held

 

[Tintin]

yes i get confused when man says 3 equals 1 and the bible says there is only one. i posted many things that backs what i am saying yet no one seems to want to explain what i am not seeing. i will re post one and you can explain it to me

if Jesus and the Father were the same what would be the point of the temptation? why would the Father need to be tested? the Almighty does not need a refresher course.

ONE GOD IN THREE FREAKING PERSONS. We can understand the Trinity to a degree, but not fully. If you don't understand it, that's okay. God is knowable, but in many ways still a great mystery. If we could understand everything about the nature of God, fully, we'd be God.
As for the Father, He wasn't tempted, His Son Jesus Christ was.

 

[jaybird88]

ONE GOD IN THREE FREAKING PERSONS. We can understand the Trinity to a degree, but not fully. If you don't understand it, that's okay. God is knowable, but in many ways still a great mystery. If we could understand everything about the nature of God, fully, we'd be God.
As for the Father, He wasn't tempted, His Son Jesus Christ was.

thank you tint for saying its something that cant be fully understood, at least now i dont feel all alone in this.

as to temptation, before you said "Jesus isn't the Father, but He is God." why would "God" need to be tested?

 

[Tintin]

thank you tint for saying its something that cant be fully understood, at least now i dont feel all alone in this.

as to temptation, before you said "Jesus isn't the Father, but He is God." why would "God" need to be tested?

Because, Jesus the God-Man, needed to pass the test of temptation leading to sin. Jesus needed to live a perfectly pure life to be the blameless 'Lamb', required as the great sacrifice to God for once and for all time. Jesus was/is God, because only God can save His creations and Jesus was man, because He came as God in the flesh to live as one of us, to suffer and die in our place. Anything less and Jesus wouldn't have been enough to save humanity from sin, death and the devil. A sinless sacrifice was needed. Jesus was also tempted to pave the way for His followers. To demonstrate what must be done to live a life true to God, a life established in the New Covenant - Jesus.

 

[jaybird88]

Because, Jesus the God-Man, needed to pass the test of temptation leading to sin. Jesus needed to live a perfectly pure life to be the blameless 'Lamb', required as the great sacrifice to God for once and for all time. Jesus was/is God, because only God can save His creations and Jesus was man, because He came as God in the flesh to live as one of us, to suffer and die in our place. Anything less and Jesus wouldn't have been enough to save humanity from sin, death and the devil. A sinless sacrifice was needed. Jesus was also tempted to pave the way for His followers. To demonstrate what must be done to live a life true to God, a life established in the New Covenant - Jesus.

is there anywhere in the bible that gives more details on "God-Man" or "God the Man"? all i can find close is Nu 23.18 but its the Almighty making it clear He is not a man. maybe i am not reading it right.