JOEL OSTEEN and LAKEWOOD

[oldethennew]

a couple of days ago it was meself, me own good character, the good people of this forum were attempting to assasinate

I must remember to write Joel a thank you note for the re-direct

some of you good people would have helped stone Stephen

you know, you would actually have a better target if you went after the false apostle club

not that they will care, but you will soon understand what some people here think 'touch not mine anointed mean'

I think a person could make good money selling torches, clubs and various throw-able farming equipment in this forum

I have a contact list for the willing entrepreneur

===================================================

you seem to be the best, at the worst you could have said...

 

[oldethennew]

a real 'hunter' can only be appointed by Jesus Christ, and we know that His gifts are many...

 

[preacher4truth]

Yes. But remember that Timothy was also an authority within the Church.

And the things he taught were to be passed on to others, and he was to be an example to the flock; 1 Timothy 4:12. Your hierarchy teaching here is nonsensical. Let's then not obey anything that was told to Timothy: we are not to purge ourselves from bad examples, we shouldn't pray for all men &c.

You're reaching.

What is happening today is we got people taking the pastoral letters and applying it to themselves to become the ultimate heresy hunters.

That's just meant to be a derogatory term enabling compromise. There are plenty of other Scriptures about exposing false teachers and heretics. These are not limited to Pastoral epistles.

Granted I am guilty of this myself on occasion too.

Sorry you feel guilty.

The people who were denouncing the false teachers were people of authority, the apostles, not joe shmoe.

Non sequitur. One doesn't have to be a pastor to follow this, and not all of these are limited to these epistles. They are our examples. I'll be danged if I'm going to tell my kids that I can't tell them about JW's, Mormons, Osteen, Bill Johnson, Islam, SDA, Joyce Myer, Kenneth Copeland, because that is the job of a pastor.

Nor would you have any authority in claiming otherwise. I'd tell them you're in error, don't listen to you because you have no idea what you're even talking about.

Wait? Let's take it even further: that instruction was only limited to whom Paul addressed contemporaneously. It doesn't apply today.

Bottom line? Your hermeneutic is faulty to say the least.

Let's follow your logic: You have no business obeying Peters letters to the Jews. Hebrews doesn't apply to you because it is written to Hebrews, not you. The Gospels don't apply to you either, they were things said to Jews.

Just stop it bro, you're out on a limb. The text given beforehand from Mark 9:40 is not to defend heretics.

 

[Willie-T]

a real 'hunter' can only be appointed by Jesus Christ, and we know that His gifts are many...

But, many people "know" they were 'appointed by God' to act out whatever hatred, jealousy, envy, or prejudice they feel in their hearts.

 

[Bogadile]

Just stop it bro, you're out on a limb. The text given beforehand from Mark 9:40 is not to defend heretics.

What is it about then?

You took what I said wayy too far... I did not say nothing applies to us. If you like heresy hunting go for it, but for the rest of us, we see that as we are of Apollos we are of Paul mentality. Because to nobodys surprise the heretics are always the people outside of 'the group'.
We can have differences and we err in many cases like Paul said but there are some things that cannot be compromised and those are the GOSPEL.
But something like speaking in tongues for example is just a silly thing to divide over.

You see my point? All I am saying is my opinion which is that we have too many regular joes saying this and that guy is a heretic, without even knowing what it means. I was not giving a "hermeneutic" or whatever you said, relax. I am not here typing as the pope.
If you disagree, fine. Carrying on.

 

[Bogadile]

Ok I went to the Lakewood Church webpage (https://www.lakewoodchurch.com/Pages/new-here/What-We-Believe.aspx) into the what we believe section, WHICH ONE of these is heresy:

The Bible
We believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.


The Trinity
We believe in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.


Salvation
We believe Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.




Water Baptism
We believe water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.


Communion
We believe in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.


Growing Relationship
We believe every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God's Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.

 

[Willie-T]

Ok I went to the Lakewood Church webpage (https://www.lakewoodchurch.com/Pages/new-here/What-We-Believe.aspx) into the what we believe section, WHICH ONE of these is heresy:

The Bible
We believe the entire Bible is inspired by God, without error and the authority on which we base our faith, conduct and doctrine.


The Trinity
We believe in one God who exists in three distinct persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God who came to this earth as Savior of the world.


Salvation
We believe Jesus died on the cross and shed His blood for our sins. We believe that salvation is found by placing our faith in what Jesus did for us on the cross. We believe Jesus rose from the dead and is coming again.




Water Baptism
We believe water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of the blood of Christ and a testimony to our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.


Communion
We believe in the regular taking of Communion as an act of remembering what the Lord Jesus did for us on the cross.


Growing Relationship
We believe every believer should be in a growing relationship with Jesus by obeying God's Word, yielding to the Holy Spirit and by being conformed to the image of Christ.

Yeah, but he doesn't use the specific words some people seem to feel he has to......... and, besides, they also think he smiles too much.(A lot of very petty people in this world.)[

 

[oldethennew]

But, many people "know" they were 'appointed by God' to act out whatever hatred, jealousy, envy, or prejudice they feel in their hearts.

==================================================

Will,
we're both way past 'thinking WE KNOW', because of what some so called 'church' told us,
when we didn't know any better - He, Christ has intervened, He has put His Hands upon our hearts
and declared all that He desires of us at this time, and tomorrow...we live to serve and Honor Him,
for the rest of our lives, no matter what comes; as a matter of fact, it feels like He has tested us both
to the max sometimes, but then, He comes-up with something else to test our mettle/Love for Him...
this is what we
Live For,
Serving Him and
others...

 

[preacher4truth]

What is it about then?

I told you what it is not about. It's not about defending heresy. You didn't happen to like that.

For "some" reason.

You took what I said wayy too far... I did not say nothing applies to us.

No. I took your error to its logical conclusion and used it consistently, showing then that it is erroneous.

You didn't like the outcome.

Any person who belongs to Christ is to have the authority to condemn heresy and false teachers. You attempted to limit this to Timothy or other church authorities. I showed you the inconsistency of your hermeneutic.

I do this with my children, showing them truth and error, false and true, false teacher and true. I encourage lay people to do the same. You would tell them they are wrong for them to do so and that is the bottom line. You derogatorily call them heresy hunters.

You're the one who is in error.

But what I am gathering here is perhaps you're an Osteen-ite. Perhaps you like his false gospel, have a few books? Agree with his false gospel of all about us? Don't like preaching on sin, error, heresy? Gather to yourself teachers who scratch your ears, 2 Timothy 4?

If you like heresy hunting go for it, but for the rest of us,

But for the rest of us? Wow. You speak for the rest, huh? See how you rush to false conclusions and your logic ends in error? You don't speak for the rest of anyone. I think you'd have enough on your hands speaking for, say, yourself. This much is quite evident.

we see that as we are of Apollos we are of Paul mentality. Because to nobodys surprise the heretics are always the people outside of 'the group'.
We can have differences and we err in many cases like Paul said but there are some things that cannot be compromised and those are the GOSPEL.
But something like speaking in tongues for example is just a silly thing to divide over.

You see my point? All I am saying is my opinion which is that we have too many regular joes saying this and that guy is a heretic, without even knowing what it means. I was not giving a "hermeneutic" or whatever you said, relax. I am not here typing as the pope.
If you disagree, fine. Carrying on.

Yes, throw in a mess of topics, throw in your opinion and then cry for being held accountable.

You did give a hermeneutic, and frankly it's erroneous and ridiculous, and I am perfectly relaxed in exposing that which you deem to be trivial and to be over looked, taken with a grain of salt concerning what you teach.

But, OK then, next time you post I'll take it as it really doesn't mean anything, isn't serious, discussing truth is just a trivial hobby, don't hold you accountable to what you say.

And of course I disagree with you, you're in error and trying to be authoritative at the same time. Until called on it. Then you tuck tail and look for a way out.

Last time, and you can get your last word in: Mark 9:40 is not a defense of heretics.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

===================================================

you seem to be the best, at the worst you could have said...

you ain't seen nuthin yet

and with humor too yet

it's a gift

 

[7seasrekeyed]

But, many people "know" they were 'appointed by God' to act out whatever hatred, jealousy, envy, or prejudice they feel in their hearts.

indeed

they have an upsurge of emotions when they enact their dark desires on those they are jealous of or who may have knocked over their idol or even demonstrated (gasp no just say it ain't so) an ability to demonstrate from a certain 66 books they are absolutely wrong in what they say

and we all know that emotions are the sign that we have the Holy Spirit

nothing personal. just agreeing with your observations

 

[joefizz]

I saw an interview where he plainly said they flooded with the last hurricane. So they built flood-walls. And the water was already within one foot of the top of their flood protection walls, and still rising.

Several other shelters in Houston took in people.... and they promptly flooded, forcing many of the people to have to be evacuated a second time.

How stupid of anyone to think that they should have done the very same thing when it looked like the church might also be flooded in a matter of hours.

Some people are so sick with the disease of wanting to deride Osteen, that they don't even bother to put their brains in gear before they run their mouths.

Yeah it's just silly allegations,Joel has a family too of course,what did people expect that he would leave his family helpless and somehow open a church that was in the middle of the flood just like many other buildings,what was he supposed to do wade through a lot of water and open the church somehow and then open the church as a shelter having no prior food,water,facilities or adequate accommodations!?
Pretty silly really to say such things,common sense is helpful when understanding situations.

 

[jaybird88]

so did olsteen offer to help people or not offer to help? it sounds like he chose not to help and then after the fact say that he couldnt. we dont have hurricanes but we have lots of tornadoes and most that i know will always rush out and help when there are those in need, we dont stop and think about.

 

[joaniemarie]

Yeah, but he doesn't use the specific words some people seem to feel he has to......... and, besides, they also think he smiles too much.(A lot of very petty people in this world.)[

Yes., some just can't abide all that smiling!!!

 

[joefizz]

Yes., some just can't abide all that smiling!!!

Colgate is abnormal,hahaha hahaha hahaha hahaha!

 

[loveme1]

Don't be quick to believe a man because he is on tv and prospering very nicely in this world. If Joel is a True believer and not a device to deceive the masses then it will become evident in time.

Please remember the world usually suppresses the Truth in favour of the lie.. so those exalted should be carefully considered, beware you are not entertaining wolves...

 

[Grace777x70]

Yes. But remember that Timothy was also an authority within the Church.

What is happening today is we got people taking the pastoral letters and applying it to themselves to become the ultimate heresy hunters. Granted I am guilty of this myself on occasion too.
The people who were denouncing the false teachers were people of authority, the apostles, not joe shmoe.

I agree with you. It is obvious from scripture that Paul is talking to those in a local assembly that have been given spiritual authority to watch over the flock when he said to confront others. He gave this instruction to Timothy and to Titus.

Public rebuke is not for every Tom, Dick and Jane on the internet. They just use that excuse so that they can rebuke anyone they want that disagrees with their "seeing of truth" and if you don't agree with me and my group - you are in heresy.

It is the way of the self-proclaimed heretic hunter and it's just the flesh acting up.

We see people do it all the time - If you don't agree with speaking in tongues or if you don't speak in tongues - you are in heresy.

If you don't believe in healing the way me and my church does - you are in heresy.

If you don't believe in works or not works - you are in heresy.

If you don't believe God choses to save some people but not others - you are in heresy.

If you believe in the gifts of the Spirit or don't believe in them - you are in heresy.

It's the flesh acting up. You can tell these ones because they always attack the other person that looks at some things differently then they do - they attack them "personally." Calling them names and insulting them publicly.

Attacking their intelligence and them "not supposedly knowing the Bible like they do". This is because you "disagree" with what they say is "truth".

Where people are free to believe in what they choose is in the "non-essentials" - like tongues, healing, end of days, kinds of food one eats...observing one day over another....etc.

What is non-negotiable is the essentials which is in the Deity of Christ, His Person and His finished work on the cross and resurrection. That we are saved by Christ's death and blood that was shed for us. And this is all based on grace through faith in Him alone. He is the Savior.

Denying Christ Himself is definitely heretic country.

 

[Bogadile]

I told you what it is not about. It's not about defending heresy. You didn't happen to like that.

For "some" reason.



No. I took your error to its logical conclusion and used it consistently, showing then that it is erroneous.

You didn't like the outcome.

Any person who belongs to Christ is to have the authority to condemn heresy and false teachers. You attempted to limit this to Timothy or other church authorities. I showed you the inconsistency of your hermeneutic.

I do this with my children, showing them truth and error, false and true, false teacher and true. I encourage lay people to do the same. You would tell them they are wrong for them to do so and that is the bottom line. You derogatorily call them heresy hunters.

You're the one who is in error.

But what I am gathering here is perhaps you're an Osteen-ite. Perhaps you like his false gospel, have a few books? Agree with his false gospel of all about us? Don't like preaching on sin, error, heresy? Gather to yourself teachers who scratch your ears, 2 Timothy 4?



But for the rest of us? Wow. You speak for the rest, huh? See how you rush to false conclusions and your logic ends in error? You don't speak for the rest of anyone. I think you'd have enough on your hands speaking for, say, yourself. This much is quite evident.



Yes, throw in a mess of topics, throw in your opinion and then cry for being held accountable.

You did give a hermeneutic, and frankly it's erroneous and ridiculous, and I am perfectly relaxed in exposing that which you deem to be trivial and to be over looked, taken with a grain of salt concerning what you teach.

But, OK then, next time you post I'll take it as it really doesn't mean anything, isn't serious, discussing truth is just a trivial hobby, don't hold you accountable to what you say.

And of course I disagree with you, you're in error and trying to be authoritative at the same time. Until called on it. Then you tuck tail and look for a way out.

Last time, and you can get your last word in: Mark 9:40 is not a defense of heretics.

What is Mark 9:40 about is what I am asking for the third time. You have told me numerous times it is not about defending heretics.
I am not going to play this calvinist game with you, wake up and smell the coffee this is not a moderated debate and you are not James White, so stop the roleplay.
You posted a lengthy response without even "EXEGETING" or using another fancy word explaining the original verse in question that someone else quoted, Mark 9:40.

As for me being authoritative, pot meet kettle. You are the one who thinks you are pastoring this forum, and the one who gets sensitive when someone responds back to your essays.
The truth is, you have NO authority here, zero, this is just an internet forum and we are on an even playing field.
You are 52, yet so sensitive and petty. Grow up dude. I am done with you. Impossible to have a conversation with someone who is only interested in roleplaying moderated debates.

God bless you and find someone else to debate with. We are causing havoc in this thread, lets stop it. Lets try to agree to disagree huh? Im down. (PS: I posted the what we believe from lakewood church, so if you want to, you can take a dig at that, I found nothing heretical in it)

 

[EJS1023]

I often wonder when I hear people attacking a joel osteen or any other televangelist how many thousands of people they have helped lead to Christ and how many the attacker has helped lead there? No, I am not a joel osteen fan but Jesus did say....well lets take a look...


Mark 9:39-41 39 [FONT=&quot]But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]40 For he that is not against us is on our part.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.[/FONT]

While this passage may speak of Joe and others like him.

I honestly believe if I follow Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:13-20 his fruit is lacking. And perhaps Jesus will tell him I never knew you, Matthew 7:21-23. Joe has also failed to take heed to Paul's warning in I Timothy 6:6-13.

I don't claim that he doesn't know Jesus just lacks fruit. And as Jesus states we shall know them by their fruits, Matthew 7:20.

I have heard him said Jesus is the only way to God, which is great. But follows up with there are many ways to Jesus, which confuses me and troubles me. I certainly hope he is a earnest teacher, but have serious doubts.

 

[Willie-T]

While this passage may speak of Joe and others like him.

I honestly believe if I follow Jesus' teaching in Matthew 7:13-20 his fruit is lacking. And perhaps Jesus will tell him I never knew you, Matthew 7:21-23. Joe has also failed to take heed to Paul's warning in I Timothy 6:6-13.

I don't claim that he doesn't know Jesus just lacks fruit. And as Jesus states we shall know them by their fruits, Matthew 7:20.

I have heard him said Jesus is the only way to God, which is great. But follows up with there are many ways to Jesus, which confuses me and troubles me. I certainly hope he is a earnest teacher, but have serious doubts.

This is probably one of the truest and most obviously observable things he has ever said.

I am almost positive you didn't come to Jesus the same way I did.