Joyce Meyer

[Willie-T]

Ya know, a very laughable thing is that with every word that Paul wrote about "Scripture", he was speaking of the Old Testament. He was simply writing letters to churches and individuals. That's all they were when he wrote them. He was NOT calling his own letters, Scripture.

 

[Magenta]

Ya know, a very laughable thing is that with every word that Paul wrote about "Scripture", he was speaking of the Old Testament. He was simply writing letters to churches and individuals. That's all they were when he wrote them. He was NOT calling his own letters, Scripture.

Scripture is authoritative divine revelation from God, in written form. Surely Paul considered himself to be an authority, divinely inspired. Also, in 2 Peter 3:15b-16, Peter says: ... just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. That seems to be an acknowledgement that he considers Paul's writing to be Scripture.

 

[Willie-T]

Scripture is authoritative divine revelation from God, in written form. Surely Paul considered himself to be an authority, divinely inspired. Also, in 2 Peter 3:15b-16, Peter says: ... just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction. That seems to be an acknowledgement that he considers Paul's writing to be Scripture.

We're talking about the same Paul who lamented that he still went ahead and sinned when he didn't want to, right? That guy? No. I don't think he considered everything he wrote, especially when he came out and said what he was suggesting was just how he did things, were direct commands he had been given by God to pass on as Scripture.

If this was true, you would be in direct violation of God's commands, right this minute, to be trying to school men here.

 

[jaybird88]

The problem is not understanding Paul's writings that has created odd ball doctrines

if Paul is teaching something that is never mentioned anywhere else in scripture i would think that would be a misunderstanding.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Ya know, a very laughable thing is that with every word that Paul wrote about "Scripture", he was speaking of the Old Testament. He was simply writing letters to churches and individuals. That's all they were when he wrote them. He was NOT calling his own letters, Scripture.

Willie,
How could you arrive at this bizarre conclusion? When Paul wrote to the Thessalonians, for example, he referred to his preaching and teaching as "the Word of God".

For our gospel came not unto you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Ghost, and in much assurance; as ye know what manner of men we were among you for your sake...For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

And as Magenta has already pointed out, Peter -- writing by Divine inspiration -- places ALL OF PAUL'S EPISTLES on the same level as Scripture.

BTW when Paul referred to "Scripture" (or the Scriptures) he referred to both the Tanakh (OT) and the New Testament Scriptures, most of which were written by him and most of which had already passed into circulation by 68 AD.

So you have to do some MAJOR REVISION in your thinking about the New Testament. Either it is ALTOGETHER the Word of God (even when it appears that Paul is rendering an opinion) or it is altogether the words of men. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Magenta]

We're talking about the same Paul who lamented that he still went ahead and sinned when he didn't want to, right? That guy? No. I don't think he considered everything he wrote, especially when he came out and said what he was suggesting was just how he did things, were direct commands he had been given by God to pass on as Scripture.

If this was true, you would be in direct violation of God's commands, right this minute, to be trying to school men here.

This is a discussion forum, not church. Plus, saying Paul did not consider everything he wrote to be direct commands from God is not the issue, but whether or not he believed he was an authority divinely inspired. I see them as two separate things, at any rate. Paul even said at times he was giving his opinion (or words to that effect). That should not discount all his other writings.

 

[Nehemiah6]

if Paul is teaching something that is never mentioned anywhere else in scripture i would think that would be a misunderstanding.

Not at all. Paul received direct revelations from the Lord Jesus Christ which were not recorded in the OT, neither in the other writers' epistles. For example,the mystery of the Church, and the mystery of the Rapture, were revealed only to him. Christians should be totally confident that Paul was simply conveying to us what Christ Himself would have taught.

BTW Paul also received direct revelations while he was in Paradise, but was forbidden from recording them (words unlawful to be uttered).

 

[Willie-T]

You two are arguing that if it is in one of Paul's letters, then it is a direct word and command from God, right? Let's get that much cleared up right now. Is that what you both are saying?

 

[Willie-T]

This is a discussion forum, not church. Plus, saying Paul did not consider everything he wrote to be direct commands from God is not the issue, but whether or not he believed he was an authority divinely inspired. I see them as two separate things, at any rate. Paul even said at times he was giving his opinion (or words to that effect). That should not discount all his other writings.

Exactly. So, when he says, "I do this" or "I do not permit such and such", are we in agreement that those were his opinions that he found worked well?

 

[Nehemiah6]

You two are arguing that if it is in one of Paul's letters, then it is a direct word and command from God, right? Let's get that much cleared up right now. Is that what you both are saying?

That's it in a nutshell. "Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him" (Prov 30:5).

 

[Iconoclast]

I don't think Paul's letters are intended to be taken as Doctrine. Paul said "I do not permit a woman to speak... and so on and so forth.. he didn't say anything about God or Jesus.....
Anyway.... Battlefield of the Mind was a pretty good book.

Looks like Peter does not agree with you...
15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they That are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.

 

[Willie-T]

That's it in a nutshell. "Every word of God is pure: He is a shield unto them that put their trust in Him" (Prov 30:5).

I'm suspecting you and Magenta are preaching two different things.

 

[Iconoclast]

Excellent point. Some of what Paul wrote was his own opinion based on his own personal preference and bias. The key words are as you pointed out, "I do not permit...". Does not say that God does not permit.

This also is serious error. Paul wrote and taught with full Apostolic authority.

 

[Iconoclast]

Exactly. So, when he says, "I do this" or "I do not permit such and such", are we in agreement that those were his opinions that he found worked well?

No this is false...absolutely false. When Paul said such things, he was saying...it was not a direct quote from Jesus.

 

[Angela53510]

I have never listened to her, nor would I listen to any female preacher/teacher. Those who have researched her beliefs have concluded that she is a false teacher.

False Teachings of Joyce Meyer

Joyce Meyer - False Preacher

https://bereanresearch.org/word-of-faith-false-teacher-joyce-meyers-shocking-doctrine-and-heresy/


http://thetruthfortoday.yolasite.com/Joyce-Meyer-Exposed----False-Teacher.php

Although I certainly believe Joyce Meyers can be a preacher/teacher, as I have repeatedly shown from Scripture, I think there are some VERY important points in these articles.

First, her soteriology is wrong. We are not saved because Jesus paid for our sins in hell. The Bible is so clear that Jesus paid for our sins on the cross. That is the atonement. In fact, a good case can be made, espeically in Greek, that Jesus did NOT go to hell at all. That is a Word Faith fiction.

So, that affects Christiology, again a core doctrine.

So, she gets wrong "how" we are saved, and "who" Jesus is! That is the definition of heresy.

Finally, I firmly believe that Word Faith itself is heretical, and she is a Word Faith teacher. In that regard, she is no different than men teachers like Hagen, Copeland, Hinny, or the hypergrace offshoot - Joseph Prince. There is no free pass for men to be heretics, either.

In fact, I read quite a bit about her. Some of her wrong doctrines were laid out in her books back in the 1990's. I read a book where an individual wrote a book on various people propagating Word Faith heresies, asking her if she had changed her views on the atonement. In fact, he wrote her repeatedly, he was a big name, told her he was going to write a book, and wanted current information. He also contacted her office. He never got a reply, one way or the other. So, he included her heresies in his book.

In the end, to me, when your foundational doctrines of faith are wrong, you are leading people astray. She may have a great testimony. She may have helped a lot of people. I think that is undeniable, from this thread. BUT, she is unrepentant in her false doctrines, and is leading people astray.

That is why I would avoid Joyce Meyers at all cost.

 

[jaybird88]

Not at all. Paul received direct revelations from the Lord Jesus Christ which were not recorded in the OT, neither in the other writers' epistles. For example,the mystery of the Church, and the mystery of the Rapture, were revealed only to him. Christians should be totally confident that Paul was simply conveying to us what Christ Himself would have taught.

BTW Paul also received direct revelations while he was in Paradise, but was forbidden from recording them (words unlawful to be uttered).

so why would the berean Jews test Pauls teachings when there was no need to do so? shouldnt Paul have rebuked these guys and explained to them he had new teachings outside of the scriptures?

 

[pckts]

She preaches about temptations and lust of the flesh, it's a major focus of her preaching, and she has gotten plastic surgery.

She's another one that wants to be a celebrity and become rich selling books.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

She preaches about temptations and lust of the flesh, it's a major focus of her preaching, and she has gotten plastic surgery.

She's another one that wants to be a celebrity and become rich selling books.

 

[jaybird88]

She preaches about temptations and lust of the flesh, it's a major focus of her preaching, and she has gotten plastic surgery.

She's another one that wants to be a celebrity and become rich selling books.

it kinda bothers me when she refers to the Most High as the all seeing eye.

i thought it was pretty pitiful when she held up the bag of her books and announced they were FREE!! . . . . . .to the first person that made a thousand dollar donation.

 

[UnderGrace]

Can you be specific?

if Paul is teaching something that is never mentioned anywhere else in scripture i would think that would be a misunderstanding.