Joyce Meyer's $23,000 Toilet
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L
One of the reasons I like the topic of Joyce Meyer is because she believes in God's provision for her. And I do too! I've seen God's provision totally defy many of the believers on this thread who honestly believe God wants us poor and crushed and miserable in our earthly suits.
In human reasoning., we can easily respect a picture of a poor man in old clothes drinking soup from a wooden bowl as he reads his Bible. There is a crust of bread on the table as this poor man in ragged black jacket sips his soup. (I had the matching pictures in my kitchen with the older lady (his wife) and found some sort of comfort in seeing that.
This picture appeals to our ability and pride to be humble. We like this idea of being poor and showing God and others how spiritual we are (and content) But how content are we when we can't afford to give our children food? When we also must feed them the same soup and wear the same clothes we are wearing? Are we able to be content when we know the desire we have to give to OUR children, how do we reason out why God is not meeting these needs we have?
When our loved children must go out into the world and be among other children and not be treated well.
How do we teach our children that God provides for us when our children see He hasn't.?? Dad has no job and mom is always crying and praying.
In reality.... God provides for His children. So much so that they have the ability to help others in their time of need. How do you speak to the needs of the unsaved when you can't even afford groceries?? How can you tell them about the wonderful spiritual blessings when you can't give them bread to eat, but can only say .... be well fed and blessed...but can give them no food to be blessed with??? Only a 'spiritual' idea that they are not privy to as unsaved people??
No.. it is a false assumption on our human part to say God wants us poor and needy. What He does want is for us to be going to Him for our needs. And showing the unsaved that our Father is willing and able to give us abundantly above what we can ask or think. This is all borne out of revelation.
2 Cor.9:8 And God is able to make all grace (every favor and earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need be self-sufficient (possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation.
He gives us enough for our needs and to be able to give to the needy. To bless us so that we can also be a blessing to others in His name. In that ., we can minister to the desperate spiritual and physical needs of unsaved people. Grow where we are planted and bless those we come in contact with. No one wants to hear of how God is blessing you when you don't have your needs met by Him.
In human reasoning., we can easily respect a picture of a poor man in old clothes drinking soup from a wooden bowl as he reads his Bible. There is a crust of bread on the table as this poor man in ragged black jacket sips his soup. (I had the matching pictures in my kitchen with the older lady (his wife) and found some sort of comfort in seeing that.
This picture appeals to our ability and pride to be humble. We like this idea of being poor and showing God and others how spiritual we are (and content) But how content are we when we can't afford to give our children food? When we also must feed them the same soup and wear the same clothes we are wearing? Are we able to be content when we know the desire we have to give to OUR children, how do we reason out why God is not meeting these needs we have?
When our loved children must go out into the world and be among other children and not be treated well.
How do we teach our children that God provides for us when our children see He hasn't.?? Dad has no job and mom is always crying and praying.
In reality.... God provides for His children. So much so that they have the ability to help others in their time of need. How do you speak to the needs of the unsaved when you can't even afford groceries?? How can you tell them about the wonderful spiritual blessings when you can't give them bread to eat, but can only say .... be well fed and blessed...but can give them no food to be blessed with??? Only a 'spiritual' idea that they are not privy to as unsaved people??
No.. it is a false assumption on our human part to say God wants us poor and needy. What He does want is for us to be going to Him for our needs. And showing the unsaved that our Father is willing and able to give us abundantly above what we can ask or think. This is all borne out of revelation.
2 Cor.9:8 And God is able to make all grace (every favor and earthly blessing) come to you in abundance, so that you may always and under all circumstances and whatever the need be self-sufficient (possessing enough to require no aid or support and furnished in abundance for every good work and charitable donation.
He gives us enough for our needs and to be able to give to the needy. To bless us so that we can also be a blessing to others in His name. In that ., we can minister to the desperate spiritual and physical needs of unsaved people. Grow where we are planted and bless those we come in contact with. No one wants to hear of how God is blessing you when you don't have your needs met by Him.
J
i had no idea who this lady was when i first saw this thread. i been doing reading here and there on here. here are a few other things about her.
when she comes to town from her tour to speak at a convention center, she has 100s of folks working to get everyone checked in, kinda like ushers, their most important job is to make sure everyone gets a catalog for all the meyer stuff for sale.
most of these folks helping out are volunteers, they get no money at all and ms meyer flies home on her private jet.
her estate has 5 homes, they were payed for by the church, not her book sales, speaking engagements, etc, the church. she also owns several other homes but i dont know who payed for them. in all she owns close to 10 homes at an evg cost of 600k each.
“If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid,” - joyce meyer
when she comes to town from her tour to speak at a convention center, she has 100s of folks working to get everyone checked in, kinda like ushers, their most important job is to make sure everyone gets a catalog for all the meyer stuff for sale.
most of these folks helping out are volunteers, they get no money at all and ms meyer flies home on her private jet.
her estate has 5 homes, they were payed for by the church, not her book sales, speaking engagements, etc, the church. she also owns several other homes but i dont know who payed for them. in all she owns close to 10 homes at an evg cost of 600k each.
“If you stay in your faith, you are going to get paid,” - joyce meyer
L
There is a lot to say to counter your words but that is not my job to defend Joyce. But one important thing is she is not affiliated with any church so she gets no money from "the church" Her ministry is how she supports herself along with hundreds of other people who are employed by Joyce Meyer Ministries. She makes thousands of cds and dvds and computer stuff to send out as well as books. They have done that since her ministry started and found that the bulk of their support came from the sale of those things.
You can read any site on line and find a million negative things about someone who is in the public eye, especially tv Bible teachers and preachers. None of those people are safe. So we have to do our due diligence and decide who to support and who not to.
Even someone as wonderful and non flashy as Billy Graham you can find those who say he is of the devil.
Again, due diligence is called for.
When financial troubles come upon you, or sickness that has no solution, that after prayer things stay as they are, yes God is saying it is my will you are in the situation you are in.
Why are there poor in the world? Because of sin, greed, lack of opportunity, education etc. illness, inefficient systems of government, housing, sanitation etc. It is Gods will that the heart of man changes so these situations are transformed by society. Whether we are rich or poor, in sickness or health we praise the Lord.
Our circumstance is largely a result of the family and societies we are born into. Just because we have faith, does not mean this miraculously changes. But reading the stuff here, this is the insane belief of some.
When christians were sent to the concentration camps of the Nazi's, was this the reward for their faith? Yes. Love went to the worst place on the earth and showed that life and love matter more than hatred and evil. It is the evil in people who do these things, and equally the good that brings blessing. To mistake this effect around you is to mistake what good and evil are, and how the gospel works in a believer.
Most churches attract people who have a similar point of view. So prosperity churches attract those who believe they are blessed through position and wealth and it will continue. It is a self fulfilling prophecy, and those who experience differently, realise how shallow and empty this view is, and disagree. So it is experience and not doctrine that is driving this insanity, and the wealthier the society the more people who will flatter each other about how fantastic this stuff is. Welcome to the world in the church.
We are called to be a light on a hill. That light is the light of good works and love, not wealth, health and prosperity. The wealth health prosperity package belongs to the advertiser, the dream merchant who wishes to deceive because none of these things is guaranteed.
Why are there poor in the world? Because of sin, greed, lack of opportunity, education etc. illness, inefficient systems of government, housing, sanitation etc. It is Gods will that the heart of man changes so these situations are transformed by society. Whether we are rich or poor, in sickness or health we praise the Lord.
Our circumstance is largely a result of the family and societies we are born into. Just because we have faith, does not mean this miraculously changes. But reading the stuff here, this is the insane belief of some.
When christians were sent to the concentration camps of the Nazi's, was this the reward for their faith? Yes. Love went to the worst place on the earth and showed that life and love matter more than hatred and evil. It is the evil in people who do these things, and equally the good that brings blessing. To mistake this effect around you is to mistake what good and evil are, and how the gospel works in a believer.
Most churches attract people who have a similar point of view. So prosperity churches attract those who believe they are blessed through position and wealth and it will continue. It is a self fulfilling prophecy, and those who experience differently, realise how shallow and empty this view is, and disagree. So it is experience and not doctrine that is driving this insanity, and the wealthier the society the more people who will flatter each other about how fantastic this stuff is. Welcome to the world in the church.
We are called to be a light on a hill. That light is the light of good works and love, not wealth, health and prosperity. The wealth health prosperity package belongs to the advertiser, the dream merchant who wishes to deceive because none of these things is guaranteed.
The faith/wealth teachers have no faith. They have wealth because they beg. And threaten. And promise things they know they cannot deliver on. Wouldn't you love to see these pigs quit what they're doing, lock down their bank accounts, rent an apartment, get a real job in our world in this Obama recession making 12 dollars an hour, pay their tithes and give big offerings to charities. Do this for about a year, have them come back and show us all how that's working out for them. According to them and their 100 percent return teaching, they'ed all be millionaires again. Show us the green. Then and only then would they have proven their teaching is right on.
Now, do you really think anyone of these snakes would take us up on the test! Only a year!
Jesus said 'when I return, will I find any faith on the earth?' Maybe we need a discussion on what real biblical faith is.
One reason the poor are in the 'church' is because the church does not take care of them.
I read a statistic that only about 5 percent of all the monies the church collects goes for missions and poor.
About like charities where about 3 percent goes to its target, the rest to overhead and fat cat salaries. Like the church.
Now, do you really think anyone of these snakes would take us up on the test! Only a year!
Jesus said 'when I return, will I find any faith on the earth?' Maybe we need a discussion on what real biblical faith is.
One reason the poor are in the 'church' is because the church does not take care of them.
I read a statistic that only about 5 percent of all the monies the church collects goes for missions and poor.
About like charities where about 3 percent goes to its target, the rest to overhead and fat cat salaries. Like the church.
S
Interestingly, who makes up the church? It isn't Joyce Meyer. It's you...and me. What are you doing about it? Did Jesus protest? Did he carry signs saying 'down with the man...equal rights for all? No...he didn't. He concerned himself with the things he could control...like rescuing an individuals heart that wanted to be rescued.
S
Actually he did do something about it... he went in ad drove the money changers out of the temple and scolded them severely. 
Here's where you are going wrong. Did Jesus protest? He most assuredly did! How did you ever miss Matt.23 for starters. Tons of scripture warning about apostasy, heresy, false teachers, false apostles, false prophets, hirelings(those that minister for a salary) wolves, false doctrine, traditions of men, wresting of scripture for fun and profit, doctrines of demons,etc., etc., etc..
What am I doing about it you ask? Teaching the word of God in order to rescue sheep from the mouths of wolves. The real question is, what are you doing about it?
What am I doing about it you ask? Teaching the word of God in order to rescue sheep from the mouths of wolves. The real question is, what are you doing about it?
There is a problem with the prosperity gospel, when there is a downturn and things go south, is that God not cursing you?
We are called to walk with Jesus in the good and the bad times, but this version appears there can be no bad times.
So what about the christians who are in war zones, or subject to disasters or tragedy or persecution. The belief was not enough? But this is what Jesus said would happen us, not wealth and health and smooth sailing.
Some here are mixing with death, taking the ideas and saying, oh have faith, blessing is yours to claim, but if not it is ok.
There are tiers in heaven and these richest group have the highest tier. Now I do like a nice car, a nice house, doing things well, but many suffer envy and problems, cannot cope with differences. Oddly a man who preached equality, sharing equally with all, now has this worldly corruption placed in his mouth.
No this is the world and is poison, that which is of no value, and it will come crashing down, like the debt upon which it is all built. And who is the figure head of these ideas, Trump. Oh what a glowing figure of truth and reality? Not.
We are called to walk with Jesus in the good and the bad times, but this version appears there can be no bad times.
So what about the christians who are in war zones, or subject to disasters or tragedy or persecution. The belief was not enough? But this is what Jesus said would happen us, not wealth and health and smooth sailing.
Some here are mixing with death, taking the ideas and saying, oh have faith, blessing is yours to claim, but if not it is ok.
There are tiers in heaven and these richest group have the highest tier. Now I do like a nice car, a nice house, doing things well, but many suffer envy and problems, cannot cope with differences. Oddly a man who preached equality, sharing equally with all, now has this worldly corruption placed in his mouth.
No this is the world and is poison, that which is of no value, and it will come crashing down, like the debt upon which it is all built. And who is the figure head of these ideas, Trump. Oh what a glowing figure of truth and reality? Not.
You adulterous people, don’t you know that friendship with the world means enmity against God? Therefore, anyone who chooses to be a friend of the world becomes an enemy of God.
James 4:4
The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil.
John 7:7
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
John 12;25
And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.
Luke 12;29-31
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.
John 15:19
James 4:4
The world cannot hate you, but it hates me because I testify that its works are evil.
John 7:7
Anyone who loves their life will lose it, while anyone who hates their life in this world will keep it for eternal life.
John 12;25
And do not set your heart on what you will eat or drink; do not worry about it. For the pagan world runs after all such things, and your Father knows that you need them. But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well.
Luke 12;29-31
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.
John 15:19
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J
here is another funny thing about these kind of preachers. most of them, when they are making offerings, they are talking to the assembly, telling them to give give give and the Lord will reward them back or the Lord will bless them back 10 fold, something to that extent. here is the problem that most dont catch. they want the assembly to pay them, they want the Lord to pay back the assembly that gave. if they truly believed in this why not ask the Lord directly to bless them with wealth.
J
i think we both agree that these leaders are not so good but we shouldnt think that the followers deserve what they get. dont forget how powersul Satan is, i wouldnt want to put him to the test. if these followers are in church then most likely there is part of them (small maybe) that is seeking the Lord. they need to be put on the correct path. thats why these leaders are so dangerous, they have many on the wrong path.
L
Each person has to come to a place in life where it doesn't matter what anyone else says about their relationship and walk with Jesus. When you have been through the fire with Jesus and came out with Him alive and still breathing because He was there and for no other reason. When that happens you know He is there in this life with you. And you live like it in spite of all human logic. Some believers will totally get what you are saying while others have nothing but questions of doubt of why it couldn't be what you profess.
I only skimmed through some of the words that were written here by some of you men and saw the word witchcraft came up.
So trusting Jesus to take care of us in the face of all human reasoning and logic is witchcraft someone said? . Some people can not believe that a Christian can be in the center of a war and not get shot. You cannot believe that God would deliver you when He didn't deliver others.
I have learned I must take God at His word before I walk it out in life. Read Psalm 91 and walked it out and although it goes against all human reason because a thousand may fall at your side and 10 thousand at your right hand; but it shall not approach you, you only look on with your eyes and see the recompense of the wicked. For you have made the Lord my refuge, Even the Most High your dwelling place. No evil will befall you Nor will any plague come near your tent.
It never occurs to some that we come into this world alone and naked and when we die we will die the same way. But the difference for the believer is we know He was aware of us and with us from the start and through to the end. No one else can answer for our lives and what we did and what we believe but us. So your walk with Jesus is yours alone. And for me, I take it Jesus and me. So when other people are going through joys or sorrows, I can't compare myself to them. I'm admonished not to judge life according to how others live their lives or by what has happened to them. I'm told to keep my eyes on Jesus. He is faithful.
Some say....how come that one died and he was innocent and that one stayed alive and he was guilty? It must mean God is not involved and we are all subject to the elements all the same as any other human on earth. So many believers build their lives around trusting God only for the after life, not for today in the here and now. It's the ONLY thing that makes sense to their human reason as to why God didn't come through. Even when the Bible is clear He will take care of us now., and He will show us above and beyond what we can even ask or think. But He requires something that in our humaness we can't give apart from supernatural faith. That is why even faith the size of a mustard seed is amazing.
FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES HERE ON EARTH as Christians, we will be confronted with contradictions about God. We will see horrible things and horrible suffering. We will see sin in action and how evil will grow bitter and rotten fruit. It will be all around us but in spite of that, we have God's promises when we trust Him it will not come neigh unto us. We will walk and not be weary we will run and not faint. If we are looking to Him and refuse to look around us and take the world (into) us above our faith in Him, we WILL see amazing things our God will do.
We will experience the world too but faith in Him and what Jesus did on the cross to defeat the enemy will get us through so that it will not over take us. We are admonished as we go through trials to trust Him to get us through to the other side. I know the evil does not come from God but God will take the experiences before us and use them for our learning. The devil is the one who comes to kill., steel and destroy... not God. Jesus came that we might have life and that more abundantly. Faith is needed here on earth.,, we are not exhorted to have faith when we get to heaven., we are not going to need it there. Its NOW we need to walk by faith and not by sight.
Another one of the difficult things we will be learning is not to look at other believers and COMPARE our lives with theirs. Why did you bless them and not me Lord?? Or.. Why did they die and not me Lord?? Why have you allowed this most wonderful brother to die and he loved you more than I do or ever could., why Lord?? Why did you allow that innocent child who is so pure die and me who is unworthy stay alive Lord? Times like this we are CONSTANTLY CALLED to look to Jesus and know WE ARE NOT PRIVY to all He is privy too because He is God and we are not God. We do not have all the answers and we are not called to have the answers. But what we are called to is to trust Him irregardless of what we see around us.
That is my answer to you guys about why this this way or why that is that way. God delivered me from many storms and floods in my life. I count Him totally faithful and have made it my goal to keep looking at Him when all around me is falling apart. I have seen Him do amazing things already. He has shown Himself to be worthy of Praise and glory and honor. He deserves my trust. Let God be God., and every man a liar. That means to me even wonderful amazing good people and the beauty of the earth and even a good name, all on earth will not last and endure. But God always will and I'm in Him and He is in me. He will abide forever and my hope has got to be in Him and nothing else. Trust in the Lord with all your heart AND LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING...IN ALL YOUR WAYS ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AND HE WILL DIRECT YOUR PATHS.
He calls each of us to believe this way. He doesn't love one of us more than the other. One of Jesus disciples John., was called the one that Jesus loved. Jesus didn't love John more., John believed Jesus loved him and lived his life out that way. John ended up taking care of Jesus mother. Jesus love was real to him so much so he lived his life out in that truth. Believing Jesus loves you is the beginning of seeing Him show through in your life.
I only skimmed through some of the words that were written here by some of you men and saw the word witchcraft came up.
I have learned I must take God at His word before I walk it out in life. Read Psalm 91 and walked it out and although it goes against all human reason because a thousand may fall at your side and 10 thousand at your right hand; but it shall not approach you, you only look on with your eyes and see the recompense of the wicked. For you have made the Lord my refuge, Even the Most High your dwelling place. No evil will befall you Nor will any plague come near your tent.
It never occurs to some that we come into this world alone and naked and when we die we will die the same way. But the difference for the believer is we know He was aware of us and with us from the start and through to the end. No one else can answer for our lives and what we did and what we believe but us. So your walk with Jesus is yours alone. And for me, I take it Jesus and me. So when other people are going through joys or sorrows, I can't compare myself to them. I'm admonished not to judge life according to how others live their lives or by what has happened to them. I'm told to keep my eyes on Jesus. He is faithful.
Some say....how come that one died and he was innocent and that one stayed alive and he was guilty? It must mean God is not involved and we are all subject to the elements all the same as any other human on earth. So many believers build their lives around trusting God only for the after life, not for today in the here and now. It's the ONLY thing that makes sense to their human reason as to why God didn't come through. Even when the Bible is clear He will take care of us now., and He will show us above and beyond what we can even ask or think. But He requires something that in our humaness we can't give apart from supernatural faith. That is why even faith the size of a mustard seed is amazing.
FOR THE REST OF OUR LIVES HERE ON EARTH as Christians, we will be confronted with contradictions about God. We will see horrible things and horrible suffering. We will see sin in action and how evil will grow bitter and rotten fruit. It will be all around us but in spite of that, we have God's promises when we trust Him it will not come neigh unto us. We will walk and not be weary we will run and not faint. If we are looking to Him and refuse to look around us and take the world (into) us above our faith in Him, we WILL see amazing things our God will do.
We will experience the world too but faith in Him and what Jesus did on the cross to defeat the enemy will get us through so that it will not over take us. We are admonished as we go through trials to trust Him to get us through to the other side. I know the evil does not come from God but God will take the experiences before us and use them for our learning. The devil is the one who comes to kill., steel and destroy... not God. Jesus came that we might have life and that more abundantly. Faith is needed here on earth.,, we are not exhorted to have faith when we get to heaven., we are not going to need it there. Its NOW we need to walk by faith and not by sight.
Another one of the difficult things we will be learning is not to look at other believers and COMPARE our lives with theirs. Why did you bless them and not me Lord?? Or.. Why did they die and not me Lord?? Why have you allowed this most wonderful brother to die and he loved you more than I do or ever could., why Lord?? Why did you allow that innocent child who is so pure die and me who is unworthy stay alive Lord? Times like this we are CONSTANTLY CALLED to look to Jesus and know WE ARE NOT PRIVY to all He is privy too because He is God and we are not God. We do not have all the answers and we are not called to have the answers. But what we are called to is to trust Him irregardless of what we see around us.
That is my answer to you guys about why this this way or why that is that way. God delivered me from many storms and floods in my life. I count Him totally faithful and have made it my goal to keep looking at Him when all around me is falling apart. I have seen Him do amazing things already. He has shown Himself to be worthy of Praise and glory and honor. He deserves my trust. Let God be God., and every man a liar. That means to me even wonderful amazing good people and the beauty of the earth and even a good name, all on earth will not last and endure. But God always will and I'm in Him and He is in me. He will abide forever and my hope has got to be in Him and nothing else. Trust in the Lord with all your heart AND LEAN NOT TO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING...IN ALL YOUR WAYS ACKNOWLEDGE HIM AND HE WILL DIRECT YOUR PATHS.
He calls each of us to believe this way. He doesn't love one of us more than the other. One of Jesus disciples John., was called the one that Jesus loved. Jesus didn't love John more., John believed Jesus loved him and lived his life out that way. John ended up taking care of Jesus mother. Jesus love was real to him so much so he lived his life out in that truth. Believing Jesus loves you is the beginning of seeing Him show through in your life.