Masturbation

[ember]

This is a side topic but certainly one worth looking at. Other forums I have been a part of, forbid posting another person's words unless there is a link given to the source or at the very least mention yr source

Whole articles also have not been allowed on other forums...it can be considered a form of spam when you think about it

So, it's not in the TOS here?

 

[JesusLives]

I can understand the OP's reluctance to give source as being a SDA myself I don't usually quote EG White as I like stick with the Bible. But because of the denomination I have been told I am going to hell and am a demon....in earlier days on CC by a member that is not here today and I have not seen for a long time.....

It is a subject OP wanted to bring up for discussion and now she is getting raked over the coals for not giving source.....Well I am sure her lesson is learned. But there are many people who do have legit questions about this subject and are too embarrassed to ask so at least there has been a discussion going on and I believe we have come up with some good source material for people to find answers to questions they may have... So that is not a bad thing.... I think we can all benefit to increase knowledge in areas that are hard to discuss on a normal basis.....

 

[Willie-T]

I often say things that may as well be direct Biblical quotes, without giving any BCV, because I don't think it is an imperative. Does me not citing the location of a truth, make it any less a truth? If we were being accurate, we couldn't give BCV, anyway, because the original had none.

Wow, it just hit me, quoting BCV is actually non-Scriptural.

Even Jesus said "It is written" or "You have heard it said" without saying what Scripture it came from, or even for sure that it WAS a Scripture.

On the cross He just started speaking a Psalm.... no other comment, at all.

 

[Joshua_Generation]

A lot of us here should be ashamed to be bantering and blustering around, trying to put one another down when, for our sons and many grown men, this is a very real situation we should face like men of God, looking to join in the battle and help.

Why are men the only ones targeted on this topic? The youth Pastors and young adult pastors wives I know state that masturbation is high among females as well.

In fact, female addiction to porn is growing and has been for the last 15 to 20 years.

 

[Willie-T]

Why are men the only ones targeted on this topic? The youth Pastors and young adult pastors wives I know state that masturbation is high among females as well.

In fact, female addiction to porn is growing and has been for the last 15 to 20 years.

I haven't experienced that, so I can't speak to it.

 

[JackH]

Perhaps this is why she didn't quote the author in the first place. https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

If the argument that the OP put forth is invalid one should argue that it is invalid in itself, not because of where it comes from.

Res ipsa loquitor.

What Ellen G. White said speaks for itself. I didn't attack Ellen G. White (ad hominem) whatsoever. I quoted exactly what she said with respect to the subject of the thread.

Did what I quoted from Ellen G. White sound like "she has given good counsel here" to you?

Here is her invalid argument again (do you agree?):

"Children who practice self-indulgence (masturbation) previous to puberty, or the period of merging into manhood or womanhood, must pay the penalty of nature's violated laws at that critical period. Many sink into an early grave, while others have sufficient force of constitution to pass this ordeal. If the practice is continued from the age of fifteen and upward, nature will protest against the abuse she has suffered, and continues to suffer, and will make them pay the penalty for the transgression of her laws, especially from the ages of thirty to forty-five, by numerous pains in the system, and various diseases, such as affection of the liver and lungs, neuralgia, rheumatism, affection of the spine, diseased kidneys, and cancerous humors. Some of nature's fine machinery gives way, leaving a heavier task for the remaining to perform, which disorders nature's fine arrangement, and there is often a sudden breaking down of the constitution;and death is the result." (Solemn Appeal, 1870, p.63)."

 

[Utah]

I think this is a consequentialist look at morality, whereas I believe the Bible teaches quite differently. Consider what Jesus says here,

"Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on." - Mark 12:41-44

It's not about the results of ones actions. The women here is not judged by the quantity which she gives, but by the strength it took to give. As a side note, married people may not be able to serve the Church as much, but by raising a Godly family they serve God in an equally important way.

Indeed, masturbation is no different from any old sin that a married person commits, but if a married man said, "I have given my entire life to Christ, but occasionally I lie to my wife because I like to get drunk at pubs with friends from work" I would say the same thing of him; he has not given his entire life to Christ.

What do you define as giving one's entire life to Christ?

 

[4enlightment]

The addiction it is due to that there is something wrong in the brain, some part of the brain had went through trauma, and erupted something. Drug can cause a addiction, and some sort of plaque that builds up (like cholesterol) in the blood stream that comes from eating something that doesn't belongs in the body, can slowly plug up some vessels of certain glands, like the sex gland, that can cause a person to be addicted, because the brain is not releasing the right amount of dopamine that causes a person to want more so that they can be satisfied, but they are still getting a little amount, like a teaser.

 

[Angela53510]

**deleted post**

 

[Joidevivre]

This is a subject that comes up often during my many hours of counseling women. They are afraid to talk to anyone, ESPECIALLY other Christians and even their husbands. But the guilt is strong. Some have husbands who are too quick or not given to deal with the sex play that a woman needs for fulfillment, so they finish later. Some have sick or aging husbands who are unable to even have sex or don't want to. Some wake up in the middle of the night with a strong sexual feeling and just finish it. Their bodies seem to know what they need. Some are single, and need a relief. Some have husbands who are in the military and away for years. And pornography is not a part of it at all!

So they seek some answers, and I prayerfully tell them that the bible does not address this. I have no reason to tell them that what is happening is wrong. I do tell them to follow their own heart after praying and that this seems to be very common - they are not alone - and should not feel shame.

What is wrong is if this takes precedence in their lives - becomes an addictive thing - and consumes their life. For most, it doesn't. I would say the same thing with someone asking if having a glass of wine is wrong.

This is not an easy to answer thing. It is very personal. And every situation is different. How can we easily make judgment calls on something that is a need that God put into our human bodies? And only He can make a judgment if that need is abused.

 

[RememberTheSabbathDay]

Thank u very much those of u who hate the light and feel that u must have a resource in order to acknowledge the truth. Thank u again for the feeding frenzy , because it shows exactly what God says about your enemies being of ur own household. Did you know it will be so called Christians who will bring other Christians down? Light and darkness cannot dwell together.

 

[4enlightment]

This is a subject that comes up often during my many hours of counseling women. They are afraid to talk to anyone, ESPECIALLY other Christians and even their husbands. But the guilt is strong. Some have husbands who are too quick or not given to deal with the sex play that a woman needs for fulfillment, so they finish later. Some have sick or aging husbands who are unable to even have sex or don't want to. Some wake up in the middle of the night with a strong sexual feeling and just finish it. Their bodies seem to know what they need. Some are single, and need a relief. Some have husbands who are in the military and away for years. And pornography is not a part of it at all!

So they seek some answers, and I prayerfully tell them that the bible does not address this. I have no reason to tell them that what is happening is wrong. I do tell them to follow their own heart after praying and that this seems to be very common - they are not alone - and should not feel shame.

What is wrong is if this takes precedence in their lives - becomes an addictive thing - and consumes their life. For most, it doesn't. I would say the same thing with someone asking if having a glass of wine is wrong.

This is not an easy to answer thing. It is very personal. And every situation is different. How can we easily make judgment calls on something that is a need that God put into our human bodies? And only He can make a judgment if that need is abused.

I doesn't believe that it is wrong, but you ought to make sure and tell them that when they does this act, that their husband is the one that is on their minds, because even if a person that think of it in their minds, has committed it.

 

[ember]

That's not the right attitude to have. It's a hateful attitude and if you are concerned with other Christians, why would you write such things?

See, that is the attitude that I sensed behind your post and perhaps others did to.

Referring to other posters as your enemy seems to indicate that you may believe you have brought a message here that demands we all respect

I don't see it that way and that does not make me your enemy. The book you quote is not the word of God

 

[breno785au]

This is a subject that comes up often during my many hours of counseling women. They are afraid to talk to anyone, ESPECIALLY other Christians and even their husbands. But the guilt is strong. Some have husbands who are too quick or not given to deal with the sex play that a woman needs for fulfillment, so they finish later. Some have sick or aging husbands who are unable to even have sex or don't want to. Some wake up in the middle of the night with a strong sexual feeling and just finish it. Their bodies seem to know what they need. Some are single, and need a relief. Some have husbands who are in the military and away for years. And pornography is not a part of it at all!

So they seek some answers, and I prayerfully tell them that the bible does not address this. I have no reason to tell them that what is happening is wrong. I do tell them to follow their own heart after praying and that this seems to be very common - they are not alone - and should not feel shame.

What is wrong is if this takes precedence in their lives - becomes an addictive thing - and consumes their life. For most, it doesn't. I would say the same thing with someone asking if having a glass of wine is wrong.

This is not an easy to answer thing. It is very personal. And every situation is different. How can we easily make judgment calls on something that is a need that God put into our human bodies? And only He can make a judgment if that need is abused.

Would you say that a lack of communication is big part of the issue in the examples you described?

 

[michael56]

Thank u very much those of u who hate the light and feel that u must have a resource in order to acknowledge the truth. Thank u again for the feeding frenzy , because it shows exactly what God says about your enemies being of ur own household. Did you know it will be so called Christians who will bring other Christians down? Light and darkness cannot dwell together.

I don't hate the light, what I hate is people not being shown the way to the light. The most dangerous churches are the ones that stress the need for the most holy of lifestyles, but fail to alongside that preach the way to live an evermore holy life(the Gospel of grace). Such preaching is the most dangerous to receive, as evidenced by many broken lives who have received it.

 

[RememberTheSabbathDay]

A lie is a lie....whether it be commission or omission.

If maxwell hadn't pointed it out would you have revealed the truth?

I had no responsibility to either of u to tell my source. So nope I would not have.

 

[RememberTheSabbathDay]

I don't hate the light, what I hate is people not being shown the way to the light. The most dangerous churches are the ones that stress the need for the most holy of lifestyles, but fail to alongside that preach the way to live an evermore holy life(the Gospel of grace). Such preaching is the most dangerous to receive, as evidenced by many broken lives who have received it.

I agree with u. I have seen this also.

 

[JackH]

This is a subject that comes up often during my many hours of counseling women. They are afraid to talk to anyone, ESPECIALLY other Christians and even their husbands. But the guilt is strong. Some have husbands who are too quick or not given to deal with the sex play that a woman needs for fulfillment, so they finish later. Some have sick or aging husbands who are unable to even have sex or don't want to. Some wake up in the middle of the night with a strong sexual feeling and just finish it. Their bodies seem to know what they need. Some are single, and need a relief. Some have husbands who are in the military and away for years. And pornography is not a part of it at all!

So they seek some answers, and I prayerfully tell them that the bible does not address this. I have no reason to tell them that what is happening is wrong. I do tell them to follow their own heart after praying and that this seems to be very common - they are not alone - and should not feel shame.

What is wrong is if this takes precedence in their lives - becomes an addictive thing - and consumes their life. For most, it doesn't. I would say the same thing with someone asking if having a glass of wine is wrong.

This is not an easy to answer thing. It is very personal. And every situation is different. How can we easily make judgment calls on something that is a need that God put into our human bodies? And only He can make a judgment if that need is abused.

Excellent post.

Yes, I agree that the Bible does not address the issue.

I challenge anyone to present clear and convincing evidence that it does.

On the subject of husbands away in the military, or husbands and wives who are apart for whatever reason, nothing wrong with a little Skype play as far as I can tell. Or you could commit adultery.

 

[breno785au]

I had no responsibility to either of u to tell my source. So nope I would not have.

Yes you do, its not considered good practice on any forum to take someone else's material and quote it as if its your own.
Either you don't know this or your hiding in shadows.

 

[Angela53510]

Thank u very much those of u who hate the light and feel that u must have a resource in order to acknowledge the truth. Thank u again for the feeding frenzy , because it shows exactly what God says about your enemies being of ur own household. Did you know it will be so called Christians who will bring other Christians down? Light and darkness cannot dwell together.

You don't think people should know you got your information from an antiquated and cult book from the 19th century? I would call that hiding in darkness.

Plus, you have done it on more than one thread. The only darkness here is people who lie about who wrote their posts, and then call others down for pointing it out. The language was weird, but I did not put it together until someone else pointed it out that it was from a very old book.

As a scholar and an honest Christian, I have been taught to always quote my sources, or at least leave a link. And JackH sufficiently showed the rest of her material on this issue, and how ridiculous and unbiblical Ellen White is.