Prophets

[dcontroversal]

I think you miss the simple fact that the gifts were there to substantiate the message and the messenger as both being from God.....Paul clearly uses the words cease, vanish and fail when it came to the three gifts listed.....He also clearly points to something coming online and the completeness of that which comes on line (the word of God).....what blows my mind about the so called gifts in the charismatic circle today is that fact that they are totally contrary to what took place in Acts....PETER spoke in HIS own language and the PEOPLE HEARD in their own languages.....it was not some mumbo jumbo being blurted out....and on top of that..it is MOSTLY WOMEN who do it which CONTRADICTS other scripture and women not USURPING authorithy over the men to TEACH the MEN........

The verse you comment on here, I Corinthians 13:11 is one of the big problems with a cessationist view of the passage.

If having these spiritual gifts is the equivalent of having the speech, knowledge, and understanding of a child, and not having them but having the completed canon is adulthood, then you have put yourself in a superior position to the authors of the New Testament.

The logical conclusion is that you think that your speech, knowledge, and understanding is like an adults, while the apostles was childish by comparison.

Notice that Paul spoke of himself having the speech, knowledge, and understanding and of himself putting away childish things. Paul will experience these things.

The fact that Christians disagree about such issues proves that we do not have perfect knowledge and understanding.

 

[dcontroversal]

Did not Jesus state clearly that the LAW and the PROPHETS were until JOHN? Let us just chunk this verse under the table and IGNORE the validity of the very WORD of GOD!

 

[SpiritofElijah]

Did not Jesus state clearly that the LAW and the PROPHETS were until JOHN? Let us just chunk this verse under the table and IGNORE the validity of the very WORD of GOD!

Acts 11:27-28 NKJV

And in these days prophets came from Jerusalem to Antioch. Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar.
Then read ephesians 4

 

[SpiritofElijah]

Yes the book of Acts shows that many will still prophecy in the last days, as it nowhere says that prophecy ended before John the Baptist or Jesus crucifixion did away with it.

One of the Lord's original 12 Apostles was a prophet, as the Apostle John wrote Revelation not John the Baptist as he was already dead by this point.
The Apostle John while exiled on the island of Patmos wrote Revelation as he was shown in a vision form the Lord what would take place. Revelation is a prophetic book, which means by writing and giving this book John was giving a prophecy making him a prophet.

Jesus was referring one to John the Baptist

 

[Willie-T]

Did not Jesus state clearly that the LAW and the PROPHETS were until JOHN? Let us just chunk this verse under the table and IGNORE the validity of the very WORD of GOD!

Just as a matter of curiosity, have you looked to see if there was any prophesying in the NT, and if there might have been, would it have been of the same type (doomsday hell fire and destruction, etc) as seemed to be common in the OT?

I dunno, myself, as I really pay very little credence to prophesy.

 

[TrueFire]

Revelation 19

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy

John 1

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Whatever one mat choose to define what a "prophet" is, it is evident that all men are such.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Jesus was referring one to John the Baptist

Yes I know as I was just making a point that the John who wrote Revelation was the Apostle John.
He wrote this book while exiled on the island of Patmos, which was well after John the baptist beheaded and Jesus crucified.
Not to mention that Acts does say in the last days many people will prophecy, see visions, and dreams. They did not end at John the Baptist, nor at Jesus crucifixion. If prophecy ended with them then John would not have written Revelation, and we still have unfulfilled prophecies in the old and new testament.
The 1 Corinthians 13 chapter is completely being misused by some to say prophecy has ceased, as that which is perfect has not come yet. For that which is perfect is not the bible canon !!!

 

[SpiritofElijah]

Yes I know as I was just making a point that the John who wrote Revelation was the Apostle John.
He wrote this book while exiled on the island of Patmos, which was well after John the baptist beheaded and Jesus crucified.
Not to mention that Acts does say in the last days many people will prophecy, see visions, and dreams. They did not end at John the Baptist, nor at Jesus crucifixion. If prophecy ended with them then John would not have written Revelation, and we still have unfulfilled prophecies in the old and new testament.
The 1 Corinthians 13 chapter is completely being misused by some to say prophecy has ceased, as that which is perfect has not come yet. For that which is perfect is not the bible canon !!!

OH OK misread lol sorry about that exactly and Paul would not have written ephesians 4

 

[SpiritofElijah]

Revelation 19

10 And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy

John 1

9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Whatever one mat choose to define what a "prophet" is, it is evident that all men are such.

Not all only some are prophets! Know the gift of prophecy can operate through every believer as the spirit of God will. Just because one prophecies does not mean they are prophets .

 

[dcontroversal]

Just as a matter of curiosity, have you looked to see if there was any prophesying in the NT, and if there might have been, would it have been of the same type (doomsday hell fire and destruction, etc) as seemed to be common in the OT?

I dunno, myself, as I really pay very little credence to prophesy.

A few points to ponder.....

1. Was Jesus mistaken with his quote concerning John the Baptist and his usage of the words (the law and the prophets were UNTIL John)
2. The word Revelation means to take the cover off, to reveal and to me points to a different type of understanding as opposed to a prophet making a prediction....
3. We have the COMPLETED word of God which TELLS us ALL we need to KNOW..there is NO logical reason for a prophet or prophets in OUR DAY and TIME....
4. ANYONE can take the WORD of GOD and promote themselves as a PROPHET.....
5. History repeats itself based upon two things....The consistency of humanity and the consistency of God's reaction to humanity based upon what humanity does! MANY men/women will stand and PREDICT and or make prophecies......

Jesus said it best.....out of the three groups of people who get rejected before his throne and cast alive into the lake of fire.....

1. THOSE who claim to make prophecies in HIS NAME.....

 

[TrueFire]

Not all only some are prophets! Know the gift of prophecy can operate through every believer as the spirit of God will. Just because one prophecies does not mean they are prophets .

All are prophets, my friend. Not all are true prophets, however. Again, the TESTIMONY of Jesus IS the spirit of prophesy.

 

[SpiritofElijah]

All are prophets, my friend. Not all are true prophets, however. Again, the TESTIMONY of Jesus IS the spirit of prophesy.

This is not true read ephesians 4 SOME ARE APOSLTES SOME PROPHETS ETC. The five fold ministry

 

[dcontroversal]

Peter's quote of Joel points to the immediate context of what was taking place.....not to mention...numerous writers testifed that they were in the LAST days already when these things were taking place...........with the completed word of God, which we have...what practical application would a prophet have in this day and age.....???????

Yes I know as I was just making a point that the John who wrote Revelation was the Apostle John.
He wrote this book while exiled on the island of Patmos, which was well after John the baptist beheaded and Jesus crucified.
Not to mention that Acts does say in the last days many people will prophecy, see visions, and dreams. They did not end at John the Baptist, nor at Jesus crucifixion. If prophecy ended with them then John would not have written Revelation, and we still have unfulfilled prophecies in the old and new testament.
The 1 Corinthians 13 chapter is completely being misused by some to say prophecy has ceased, as that which is perfect has not come yet. For that which is perfect is not the bible canon !!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

A few points to ponder.....

1. Was Jesus mistaken with his quote concerning John the Baptist and his usage of the words (the law and the prophets were UNTIL John)
2. The word Revelation means to take the cover off, to reveal and to me points to a different type of understanding as opposed to a prophet making a prediction....
3. We have the COMPLETED word of God which TELLS us ALL we need to KNOW..there is NO logical reason for a prophet or prophets in OUR DAY and TIME....
4. ANYONE can take the WORD of GOD and promote themselves as a PROPHET.....
5. History repeats itself based upon two things....The consistency of humanity and the consistency of God's reaction to humanity based upon what humanity does! MANY men/women will stand and PREDICT and or make prophecies......

Jesus said it best.....out of the three groups of people who get rejected before his throne and cast alive into the lake of fire.....

1. THOSE who claim to make prophecies in HIS NAME.....

Problems with that way of thinking;

A) Pentecost and the gifts that came with the Holy Spirit was after John the Baptist beheading and the Lord's crucifixion, so prophecy still exists as that is one of the gifts.

B) Revelation is a prophetic book that the Apostle John wrote as he was shown the vision from the Lord.
Johns prophetic vision is no less a prophetic vision then what Daniel was shown.........

C) Acts clearly says in the last days many people will prophecy, receive visions, and be given dreams....

D) Revelation 11 shows the two witnesses that prophecy for 1,260 days.............

 

[PeterJens]

Let us break this problem down. We claim a personal relationship with the living God, we have the Holy Spirit living in our hearts and claim he directs, inspires, speaks to us about ourselves and things around us. Prophecy is merely putting this conviction into words. You cannot say this does not exist unless you say God is not speaking into a hearts, and the emotional relationship we express is pure delusion.
Now the prophets of old, were asked to deliver a specific warning to Israel etc or people. God has not changed, he still gives visions, dreams, messages and sends people places. He tells us we should test these messages.
When speaking in tongues there must be order and interpretation.

I doubt there is such a thing as an office of a prophet, as we are a body of believers, who exercise many gifts and ways to encourage each other. If anything it is more likely the Lord would use the most unlikely to deliver messages, so pride is not built up. The NAR and dominion followers want their leadership given the illusion of authority and superiority, because it is about ruling like a Pope or King, not blessing the body through uplifting brothers and sisters with words from God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Peter's quote of Joel points to the immediate context of what was taking place.....not to mention...numerous writers testifed that they were in the LAST days already when these things were taking place...........with the completed word of God, which we have...what practical application would a prophet have in this day and age.....???????

That which is perfect by no means points to the biblical canon that we have, that was man interjecting what is not there.
The context in 1 Corinthians 13 is about love, and not scripture. Nothing is perfect tell all is fulfilled, as many prophecies are still yet to be fulfilled and not all prophecies refer to just the end time events. A prophet can still be shown a vision from God of what is to come soon.

 

[dcontroversal]

Problems with that way of thinking;

A) Pentecost and the gifts that came with the Holy Spirit was after John the Baptist beheading and the Lord's crucifixion, so prophecy still exists as that is one of the gifts.

B) Revelation is a prophetic book that the Apostle John wrote as he was shown the vision from the Lord.
Johns prophetic vision is no less a prophetic vision then what Daniel was shown.........

C) Acts clearly says in the last days many people will prophecy, receive visions, and be given dreams....

D) Revelation 11 shows the two witnesses that prophecy for 1,260 days.............

Whatever Kenneth....I forget all the time you have direct revelation from God himself.........I would suggest context, a study of the words from the language and open your eyes to the truth, but you would just reject, deny, argue, twist and then get offended at something I say...so...believe what you will dude!

 

[TrueFire]

This is not true read ephesians 4 SOME ARE APOSLTES SOME PROPHETS ETC. The five fold ministry

I have read that. The TESTIMONY of Jesus IS the spirit of prophesy. We all have the testimony of Jesus. The question then becomes, what do we all do with this testimony.


Everyone who has a voice are "singers." How many are good or blessed at it? Some who can sing, cannot draw but we all have hands to do it. Thus some are called to be singers, others artists and so on.

It it is the same with prophecy. All those who preach or teach about God or religion are prophets.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Whatever Kenneth....I forget all the time you have direct revelation from God himself.........I would suggest context, a study of the words from the language and open your eyes to the truth, but you would just reject, deny, argue, twist and then get offended at something I say...so...believe what you will dude!

I am not rejecting nothing as it clearly shows in the bible that the gift of prophecy from the Holy Spirit was administer at and after Pentecost, so it could not have ended at John the Baptist or Jesus crucifixion. Nor does any biblical evidence say the completed canon of the bible is that which is perfect.
If that would be the case then all prophecy would be fulfilled already, which they are not. We have unfulfilled prophecies.

Second, say for instance if the tribulation period does not start for another 10 or 20 years why would not prophecy still be done. The bible says the two witnesses in Revelation 11 prophecy for 3 1/2 years before killed by the man of sin. Well if they can do prophecy within the last 7 years, prophecy can sure be done before that.

 

[dcontroversal]

I am not rejecting nothing as it clearly shows in the bible that the gift of prophecy from the Holy Spirit was administer at and after Pentecost, so it could not have ended at John the Baptist or Jesus crucifixion. Nor does any biblical evidence say the completed canon of the bible is that which is perfect.
If that would be the case then all prophecy would be fulfilled already, which they are not. We have unfulfilled prophecies.

Second, say for instance if the tribulation period does not start for another 10 or 20 years why would not prophecy still be done. The bible says the two witnesses in Revelation 11 prophecy for 3 1/2 years before killed by the man of sin. Well if they can do prophecy within the last 7 years, prophecy can sure be done before that.

What exactly is the Greek word used in Revelation for prophecy as applied unto the 2 witnesses? What is the definition of the word?