Psychology/Psychiatry/Counseling

[Mooky]

You need to read post #8 above. In Biblical counseling, we were exposed to Nouthetic counseling. I read several books written by authors who espoused this view, and there were some positives to this method.

However, there were also a lot of negatives. It is dogmatic and rigid. It is about the counseling method, not the patient, and at times, not even about God. If you want to be pounded that everything is your fault, then I would recommend it.

If you want a more Biblical method - which includes personal growth and focusing on Christ, I would advise you stay away from people using this method.

My suggestion is also that you do not recommend methods that you know nothing about!

I stand rebuked.

 

[CeileDe]

I stand rebuked.

I will look into it. I always look how much King David went through. If anyone needed someone to lean on it was him. He trusted God the entire way and that is how I want to be. Maybe I'm just unrealistic in my views.

 

[eph610]

Hi Ceile,

I totally hear you.I have wrestled with this topic many times.The conclusion I have drawn is that secular psychology tends to be very self centred.It's all about your goals, your problems and your mental health.They leave God completely out of the picture.

Then one gets "christian psychologists."They are usually practitioners who have a psychology degree with maybe a bit of bible college.I find this to be an unsatisfactory state of affairs because how do they know how to weed out the futile theories from godless men from those that may actually be beneficial?

So, I did a bit of research.There is a branch of counselling called ," nouthetic " or biblical counselling.The practitioners operate with sanctification - not self actualization as its goal.( If you are familiar with Abraham Maslows hierachy of needs you would know that self actualization is the capstone.)

So biblical counselling.Biblical counsellors have a christian world view which they impart to their clients and it is by far the most useful way of sorting out ones problems with a professional to my mind.
It has taken off in America and there should be a few where you are.

If you are interested ,I have included a link to CCEF - the headquarters of this movement.On this site you can either find training in biblical counselling or find a counsellor.
Blessings!

https://www.ccef.org/

You should not walk, but run from anyone practicing Nouthetic counseling. See my post #8 above. Sanctification is done by the truth of the Word of God. It is not completed by people that have distorted views of God's word and base everything that is wrong with you on the false doctrine of sin-consciousness[Belief that you are helpless and powerless over sin or sinning and that sin is something you live in constantly until you die and go to heaven]. I have seen Nouthetic counseling condone rape, child abuse and wife abuse. It also perpetuates and endorses misogyny and chauvinism to the highest levels, because the wife will submit to all the needs and demands of the husband/man, because the Bible says so. I have witnessed kids and wives be turned into literal slaves and the other women in their churches are taught to shun them and other family members, if they are undergoing "counseling"

Nouthetic Counseling does a great job of hiding its own satanic agenda by perverting the truth about Christian counselors and mental health workers. Many Nouthetic counselors force you to attend their churches or join their denominations. The wives of Nouthetic counseling Pastors are evil, evil, evil. They seem to be there to confide in, but are trained to report everything to their husbands in order to root out your SIN problem. Not at all surprising, the more legalistic denominations is where most of where modern day Nouthetic counseling hides.

Beware and be discerning...for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light


.

 

[oldethennew]

thankfully for me, many years ago I was led to a Christian Councilorship group that loved and
served their Lord and Master Jesus Christ,...my personal counselor helped me to save my life
and led me in Holy knowledge to get out of an evil situation if I wanted to stay alive...the first
few visits I spoke to him from standing behind the curtains in his office out of shame and
devastating heartache - and eventually, He lovingly helped me to acquire the courage from
our Father to face him and tell all...
many times I didn't even have the money to pay them, but they still accepted me
and offered me Christ's Holy Hope...
it was an amazing experience and I will always give all the glory to Jesus Christ, our Lord and Saviour...
and the friend who led me to the only place where I could receive the help God would provide for me
at that time in my life, but it WAS up to me to seek Him, which I fervently did and He answered my
prayers and started me on an amazing new journey that has never ceased to comfort me for one moment...

 

[Mec99]

You have to be crazy to see a psychiatrist.

Get it? Crazy? Old joke.

 

[psalm6819]

There is no empirical evidence that the brain of someone diagnosed with bipolar, paranoid, ect has a brain any different than any other brain. There is no way to measure if someone is lacking any specific chemical.

My personal experiece with pyschotropic drugs was very negative as was that of everyone I know.

Noone treated with these poisons gets better......

 

[resurrection33]

I have a real hard time with Psychology/Psychiatry. I guess I feel God/Word of God can deal with these issues. Anyone else feel this way or am I a minority?

In the final analysis I would side with you on this issue, although those people can be helpful sometimes.

 

[miknik5]

I have a real hard time with Psychology/Psychiatry. I guess I feel God/Word of God can deal with these issues. Anyone else feel this way or am I a minority?

Yes. And never ceasing from praying

 

[miknik5]

I have a real hard time with Psychology/Psychiatry. I guess I feel God/Word of God can deal with these issues. Anyone else feel this way or am I a minority?

There is no empirical evidence that the brain of someone diagnosed with bipolar, paranoid, ect has a brain any different than any other brain. There is no way to measure if someone is lacking any specific chemical.

My personal experiece with pyschotropic drugs was very negative as was that of everyone I know.

Noone treated with these poisons gets better......

Prayer works

 

[miknik5]

I have a real hard time with Psychology/Psychiatry. I guess I feel God/Word of God can deal with these issues. Anyone else feel this way or am I a minority?

There is no empirical evidence that the brain of someone diagnosed with bipolar, paranoid, ect has a brain any different than any other brain. There is no way to measure if someone is lacking any specific chemical.

My personal experiece with pyschotropic drugs was very negative as was that of everyone I know.

Noone treated with these poisons gets better......

Beautiful testimony.

 

[miknik5]

[l

Many times therapy has helped me gain a clearer perspective of things. I haven't seen a psychologist in many years but when I did he helped me tremendously. Also mental illness is a very real thing. Not everyone that sees a therapist is mentally ill though. Someone might be struggling and need help to get through something, like a divorce. It discourages me to read like you just need God or only a Christian counselor is credible. Would you tell a person with schizophrenia to just pray it away? They can't, you can pray for healing but mental illness doesn't just go away.

Post traumatic stress disorder doesn't just go away, it's not like having a cold. We need Doctors of the mind just like we need Doctors of the body.

And sometimes it does "just go away". And with prayer. Doctors can only do so much. Neglect neither

 

[Sirk]

Wouldn't a pastor fill that void of talking to someone? I guess I can't say I wouldn't go to a counselor cause I did see a Christian Counselor before, but it was strictly based off of Scripture. I guess I'm more against the non-christian based practices.

I've seen pastors make things worse for people.

 

[pottersclay]

Sometimes you need a second pair of eyes to tell you what they see. I talk with my oncology Dr. No she's not a head shrink but she sees me as me. It's been very helpful to have someone on the outside looking in.

If this is helpful to anyone let me point out something in the gospels.

The worst night of Jesus's life was in the garden. The anguish..the pleading..the prayers.....alone and all things laid upon his shoulders....God saw fit to send a angel to comfort....the angel spoke not a word but was enough for the Lord to say...thy will be done. A second pair of eyes.

 

[Tintin]

I have a real hard time with Psychology/Psychiatry. I guess I feel God/Word of God can deal with these issues. Anyone else feel this way or am I a minority?

Proper Psychology and Psychiatry are informed by God and His Word.

 

[miknik5]

The OP is espousing Nouthetic counseling and this is a very dangerous doctrine. The focus of Nouthetic counseling doctrine is that everything we face is because of SIN. After coming to Christ SIN becomes a choice, not something you are helpless over.

Martin & Deidre Bobgan are the current day proponents of Nouthetic counseling.

My own Parents were trained in Nouthetic counseling back in the early 70's and stopped adhering to it by the early 80's, when they came to the Biblical Truth once you come to Christ you are no longer a sinner, but a saint.

I do believe in the use of Christians based Psychologists, that have a Christian based Psychology degree.
Unless there is a very serious psychosis present, that is endangering the life of the person or those around them and only a sedative to calm the person. I would not recommend any form of Psychiatry. Prescribing mind altering drugs is not the answer.

Some parts of Nouthetic counseling does have it's place in pastoral counseling, but it is susceptible to abuses. Many Baptist denominations that still cling to this are very literal in their interpretation of the Bible when it comes to discipline for SIN.

My Parents started seeing the light when they saw a father beat his 13 year old daughter with a "Rod" for disobeying him. The church backed the Father and shunned his wife and daughter.

Nouthetic counseling is founded in the false teaching of sin-consciousness theology and places more under condemnation than the word of Faith movement ever has.


I wonder if the OP goes to a medical doctor, or just adheres to the Bible for healing.

I cannot count the times I have watched in horror, those that refuse to go to Doctor because of distorted communicated Bible knowledge and died, when all they needed was a antibiotic or stitches or a bone set.

God has gifted us with fellow brothers and sisters, in Science, health, medicine and psychology, that he also uses to heal with.
God heals us and uses many different gifts of healing to accomplish it.

Yes. We are responsible to do what is in our ability to do. And neglect neither doing what we are responsible and capable of doing abs all the while praying in all things

 

[miknik5]

[O

I have a bipolar group I run, and I want to urge people with mental illness to get proper medical help for their illness.

Some of these people in my group are Christians, some are not. (My hope is that my witness and words will lead them to Christ!). But all share the same problem - a disease of the brain.

The bipolar 1s have all experienced psychosis and hospitalizations. The bipolar 2s have mostly been hospitalized for suicide attempts. All of them take medications and attribute their ability to cope and contribute in life to both good counselling and psychiatry - meaning medications.

True, there can be bad psychiatrists, like in any branch of medicine, but for someone who is truly mentally ill, these drugs have literally restored their lives - including the strong Christians.

As for counselling, there is no doubt that secular counsellors dealing with things like marriage counselling, emotional or other issues will not be giving good Biblical advice. For that, I would urge people to go to a Christian counsellor who is certified as a psychologist. The person that taught my Biblical Counselling course in Seminary urged everyone to make sure that they were not sending people, as pastors, to secular councillors who did not have a strong Biblical background, but also that the counsellor had the training and background to be able to deal with people in a professional manner.

Mental illness is real, and needs real help. Yes, we can always point these people to Christ, and he can help them with their emotional problems, but when the brain is sick it needs a real doctor.

If you do not mind my asking. Do you lead these in your group in prayer? I understand that you would like to lead these to Christ and if they know you are a Christisn would they be against you leading them (or even praying for them ) in prayer?

 

[miknik5]

And these scriptures as well
Philippians 4

 

[miknik5]

I've seen pastors make things worse for people.

I've never seen GOD make things worse for people and yet people in need do not consider prayed and prayer is neglected

 

[laura_charlotte]

There is no empirical evidence that the brain of someone diagnosed with bipolar, paranoid, ect has a brain any different than any other brain. There is no way to measure if someone is lacking any specific chemical.

My personal experiece with pyschotropic drugs was very negative as was that of everyone I know.

Noone treated with these poisons gets better......

Poison being the key word. Doctors are paid to push drugs on people. There's no better way to natural, whole healing than through the word of Christ, a health diet, exercise and supplements for healing. Medication may temporarily solve one problem for an intermediate time period alone and gives several others long term, it also affects longevity of life too. The practice of psychology is totally independent and doesn't encapsulate the words of God and as such cannot provide the same healing our creator can.

 

[mcubed]

This is such a great topic! I agree and disagree at the same time, quite an unusual experience. I am truly a delivered junkie; in every since of the word. For over 20 years I have been delivered from heroin by G-d, His Word and, going to my synagogue alone. Then there is my son who is autistic, that is mental illness, G-d has chosen, to date, to heal him. But this is known about my Dad, He created Him so, Jacob, my son, is His responsibility. He will either heal Him or I know he is taken care of his whole time here on earth. The righteous will not be seen beg bread. I think, if I read into the thread right, you are more on the lines of schizophrenia and bi-polar. If G-d made the death and the mute, which He Himself claims; Exodus 4:11 The LORD said to him, "Who gave human beings their mouths? Who makes them deaf or mute? Who gives them sight or makes them blind? Is it not I, the LORD? … now granted these are physical not mental, but let’s think about the logic of that argument. If G-d claims to make people physically disabled, He logically creates them mentally disabled too. Unless all of the mentally challenged people on earth were not created by G-d…. G-d is about balance if meds are needed take them, if G-d is enough then G-d alone. But many of the time He is both not one or the other He is both. It is always G-d first. Many times He does deliver, He is our healer. But don’t throw the baby out with the bath water.