Psychology/Psychiatry/Counseling

[Sirk]

Sirk. Do you somehow think that these who suffer with intrusive thoughts and psychosis want to be like this?


Do you know any person who enjoys being sick?

What would you think they would pray for or go to a doctor for?

Because they want to continue in this suffering? They want to continue in this state?

Are you confusing those with a seated concience with these who are duffering and know they are suffering from mental illness who want to get better and are condemning them as deserving this suffering?

The outward man is manifested by the inner thoughts of that man's spirit? Is this what you are suggesting. That they need to control their inner intrusive thoughts or otherwise they will just reap what is inward...

Really?


I don't believe I am understanding you correctly

And....I am actually hoping that I am not understanding you correctly

I'm not sure what is to be misunderstood. I stated pretty plainly what I stated. Every man chooses his thoughts....whether they be evil or righteous. When a mentally unstable man stands before God and is condemned to hell.....who will he blame. Will God shoulder the blame. You are counseling way above your pay grade. Like I've seen many pastors attempt to do and inflict further harm on a poor tortured soul.

 

[jsr1221]

Mental illness isn't a sin problem. There are things in the brain that cause chemical imbalances. A pastor can't just throw a verse saying "Be anxious about nothing". That's not how anxiety works. A pastor doesn't just say "There must be an unrepentant sin that causes your depression." Depression is much, much more than just feeling sad. Also, you don't tell someone to "just get over it" and "seek God". Folks with mental illness don't like feeling the way they do. If we could just "get over it", we would. But it doesn't work like that.

As others have noted, if you're having chest pains you don't go to your pastor. You go to a doctor. To get dental work done, you don't go to a pastor. You go to a dentist. God's Word might be all truth, but not all truth in the world is in God's Word.

It is threads like these that cause folks with mental illness to feel embarrassed and not reach out to anyone. It is threads like these that folks with mental illness feel resentful with the church and are leaving. It is threads like these that show a lot of ignorance by other Christians.

 

[RBA238]

These type ONLY come out through prayer

Prayer...and Fasting!!

 

[Miri]

The way I see it, if a shoulder is dislocated (my aunt did this 3 years ago
during a fall), you dont just get it put back in place then everything is
completely normal again. It took rest, lots of pain killers,
gentle exercise, then gradually moving onto exercises with more movement etc.
It took several months for her dislocated shoulder to be resolved, even now she
still has some weakness in that shoulder.

Same with mental illness, depression, other physiological issues, you don't just get
ill and feel better overnight after speaking to the pastor and praying. It takes time
to work through things, discover the roof cause, gradually learn how to think in a
different way. It takes time for meds to take effect where there may be hormonal
or chemical imbalances etc. It takes time to emerge from the tunnel, it's not possible
to just pull yourself together.

There is nothing wrong with seeking help from someone to guide you through the
tunnel. Most pastors won't have the time or ability to do that. Most friends won't
have the time or ability to do that. The stigma and shame Christians can feel needs
reversing. It's not right that dear people in Christ are made to feel they are a failure just
because they are not well.

Its interesting that more and more science is also coming to light about real physical
changes within the brain which occur due to depression, stress and the chemical imbalances
which occur. It's changing the perception of mental health issues, it's no longer just
about people being weak. The human body is a finely balanced mechanism there is
a real genuine connection between the physical and the physiological. Real physical
problems occur in the body where there is an imbalance of cortisol, serotonin etc.
Would you trust your pastor to understand both the physical and mental effects and to
prescribe a course of treatment.

The church needs to realise depression etc is not caused by a person's lack of prayer or sin!
Yes there can be actions and consequences for some, but for many it's just the circumstances
they find themselves in. Same with abuse victims or PTSD etc.

 

[RBA238]

I agree with what you stated. God, we know is a healer. Not all Illness is Sin related. In one verse, The Apostles asked Jesus why a person was in a bad health state. They wanted to know did his parents or Himself cause this problem due to Sin. The Lord told them he had the problem to glorify God. To fully understand that, we see God will get all The Glory when the healing transpires eventually. This is the way I understand it from Scripture. I have been a witness to Indwelling of Demons causing Mental problems...Different situations. God can and will heal those as well..

 

[miknik5]

I'm not sure what is to be misunderstood. I stated pretty plainly what I stated. Every man chooses his thoughts....whether they be evil or righteous. When a mentally unstable man stands before God and is condemned to hell.....who will he blame. Will God shoulder the blame. You are counseling way above your pay grade. Like I've seen many pastors attempt to do and inflict further harm on a poor tortured soul.

And you are judging above THE LORD and are actually doing the work of the "wrong father" in declaring the tortured soul lost and beyond the healing powers of GOD

Here's a thought for you sir which is not too costly to do

PRAY for these tortured souls

 

[miknik5]

Prayer...and Fasting!!

Yes but a different kind of fasting
Not a fasting of food but a fasting in all the things that were once considered food and necessities that are meaningless comforts without GOD

Go about your day, wash your face, get up, do all those things that are required but wait and "fast" and pray

 

[miknik5]

Prayer...and Fasting!!

And pray and pray and pray

 

[miknik5]

Mental illness isn't a sin problem. There are things in the brain that cause chemical imbalances. A pastor can't just throw a verse saying "Be anxious about nothing". That's not how anxiety works. A pastor doesn't just say "There must be an unrepentant sin that causes your depression." Depression is much, much more than just feeling sad. Also, you don't tell someone to "just get over it" and "seek God". Folks with mental illness don't like feeling the way they do. If we could just "get over it", we would. But it doesn't work like that.

As others have noted, if you're having chest pains you don't go to your pastor. You go to a doctor. To get dental work done, you don't go to a pastor. You go to a dentist. God's Word might be all truth, but not all truth in the world is in God's Word.

It is threads like these that cause folks with mental illness to feel embarrassed and not reach out to anyone. It is threads like these that folks with mental illness feel resentful with the church and are leaving. It is threads like these that show a lot of ignorance by other Christians.

Again NEGLECT NEITHER the medical professional or GOD. And actually prayer is direct conversation ,with and calling out to GOD
The inflicted does not really have to go to a middle man pastor...he/she can go to GOD with their prayers and requests

Now those who are supposed to be spiritual should be praying for their healing but it also is ultimately GOD who heals

All these talents and experts were given by GOD so that man might benefit from these experts. But again, ultimately all things come through and from GOD

Nebuchadnezzer had to come to this understanding that all his natural talents were given him from GOD to begin with. So medical professionals also their gifts came from GOD's grace upon all

 

[miknik5]

we are not to neglect these medical doctors (whom GOD has blessed us with) but we most certainly are not to neglect THE DOCTOR either

Is that clear?

 

[jsr1221]

we are not to neglect these medical doctors (whom GOD has blessed us with) but we most certainly are not to neglect THE DOCTOR either

Is that clear?

I have no idea what you're talking about, so I'm just going to say this. Pastors don't know how or aren't equipped to handle extreme cases with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and PTSD. Psychologists and therapists are. Who do you think gave these folks the gift and understanding to begin with? God did.

 

[RBA238]

Amen!!! Praise The Lord..

 

[miknik5]

I have no idea what you're talking about, so I'm just going to say this. Pastors don't know how or aren't equipped to handle extreme cases with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and PTSD. Psychologists and therapists are. Who do you think gave these folks the gift and understanding to begin with? God did.[/QUOTE=miknik5;2774219]we are not to neglect these medical doctors (whom GOD has blessed us with) but we most certainly are not to neglect THE DOCTOR either
Yes that is what I said. And for our benefit but that doe not mean we should neglect prayer EVER

 

[miknik5]

I have no idea what you're talking about, so I'm just going to say this. Pastors don't know how or aren't equipped to handle extreme cases with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and PTSD. Psychologists and therapists are. Who do you think gave these folks the gift and understanding to begin with? God did.

we are not to neglect these medical doctors (whom GOD has blessed us with) but we most certainly are not to neglect THE DOCTOR either

Yes that is what I said. And for our benefit but that does not mean we should neglect prayer EVER