Question for Hizikyah, or Others

[eternally-gratefull]

Will you point out the EXACT verses (2) that you are talking about

Rev 20 and 2 Cor? but what exact verses? If your are talking about 2 Corinthians 5:10 and Revelation 20:13 of course it's a different word because one is talking about a judgement seat (a physical seat or authority) and the other is talking about judgement (the act of carrying out the work of a judge).

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

968. béma Strong's Concordance

béma: a step, raised place, by impl. a tribunal​

Original Word: βῆμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: béma
Phonetic Spelling: (bay'-ma)
Short Definition: the space covered by a step of the foot, a tribunal
Definition: an elevated place ascended by steps, a throne, tribunal.

Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before Yahweh. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.”

2919. krinóStrong's Concordance

krinó: to judge, decide​

Original Word: κρίνω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: krinó
Phonetic Spelling: (kree'-no)
Short Definition: I judge, decide, think good
Definition: (a) I judge, whether in a law-court or privately: sometimes with cognate nouns emphasizing the notion of the verb, (b) I decide, I think (it) good.

2 completely different things....

Again you missed the point, and your right it is 2 different things.

It is where Jesus will pass judgment on death and hades. as in a judicial judgment

In 2 cor 5. The judgment SEAT is where the judge judges the athlete who worked hard to run the race, and is given his reward (as paul said, gold silver precious stone, wood hay straw) where our works are exposed.

1 Cor 1: 13: [SUP]13 [/SUP]each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. [SUP]14 [/SUP]If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. [SUP]15 [/SUP]If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

This is the bema judgment paul spoke of in 2 cor 5: 10. where our works are judged,

there will be given no reward in rev 20, Only death in hades are delivered here, and death and hades are cast into the lak of fire.

 

[john832]

What I am interested in is the full meaning from the original text of the word "believeth" as it is used in John 3:16.

I am asking because, recently I heard a Sermon where the Preacher said that in the original language, the "tense" this was used in means more than just simply believing something. Rather it means to come to believe, and continue in that belief. To never stop believing.

If this is true, then I look at John 3:16, and I see it saying........"whosoever believeth in, and continues in that belief......"

In a way, this would also explain another statement Jesus made........

Matthew 24:13 .) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


If correct, then I can see why Jesus would say "he that shall endure unto the end..........." meaning he who continued in his belief, and never stopped believing in Jesus...........

SIDEBAR: This is not intended to support or argue against ANY Theological position. I'm simply asking for a clarification of the proper "tense" use of the word "believeth" in John 3:16

Thanks (ahead of time) for any effort you may put into answering this. I will check back later this evening to read your comment(s).

God bless

I also means to act on that belief. No text in scripture should stand alone or in opposition to any other text, they should all harmonize. To just believe (and you are correct here, it is a continuing belief, not a one off) is not enough...

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But it goes without saying that they do not serve God or do what He says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Thanks for your effort Brother..............from reading all you said.........I get the idea that the Preacher was correct.......that "believeth" in John 3:16 is saying "continues in belief," or, "does not stop" in belief in Jesus Christ.

Which would agree with Jesus when spoke of "endure" in Matthew.

Correct? Or did I misread your comments?

yep lets ignore the aorist tense eternal life.

lets also ignore the fact Jesus was speaking of physical life in matt, and not spiritual life.

lets add our works and earn the gift of eternal life (oops, I should have said reward of eternal life, you can't EARN a GIFT!)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And, as I continue to read..............people have strayed far from the intent of the OP, but that's no big surprise. They have gone directly into Theological Ideology of certain churches/groups...........

The sole intent of the OP was to focus on the ONE WORD "believeth," and it's various uses/meanings in the original text. Not to justify any Theological Ideology, or disprove any..............

From what you have Brother Hizikyah, the only way I see to have the words of Jesus agree in John and Matthew is by the usage of believeth as meaning "to continue in/never stopping."

But that's just me.............

Thank you for your efforts...............and sorry to have caught you up in argumentative ideology........

God bless

You can not focus on one word, unless you take it in context.

A major flaw in hermenuetics is to take one word totally out of context, and make a doctrine, Men have been doing this for years. it gets them into trouble.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

It's been maybe fifteen years since I studied the original language on that. I remember something about how it meant belief was the door, but that more was needed to enter it. I remember something about the instructor saying if he walks up to a house door, that that doesn't mean he's inside the house.

not sure what this has to do with the word belief.

If I believe something good is in the house, I will go to it, If I doubt that something is good in it, or fear that something bad may be in it, even if I believe, I will never open the door.

However, if I have FAITH that there is something good in the house, If I trust and am assured there is nothign bad in the house, I will gladly open the door.

Jesus said he comes to knock, If we doubt, we will not open the door, even if we believe, if we trust, we will gladly open the door. nad he will come in. nd never leave nor forsake us.

 

[john832]

I also means to act on that belief. No text in scripture should stand alone or in opposition to any other text, they should all harmonize. To just believe (and you are correct here, it is a continuing belief, not a one off) is not enough...

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But it goes without saying that they do not serve God or do what He says.

Oops, the opening statement should have said...

It also means...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I also means to act on that belief. No text in scripture should stand alone or in opposition to any other text, they should all harmonize. To just believe (and you are correct here, it is a continuing belief, not a one off) is not enough...

Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

But it goes without saying that they do not serve God or do what He says.

Yet james said belief is not enough, true faith is what saves,

How can you be saved if you have belief inn something (the demons believe yet tremble) but have no faith (it is dead)

As james said, your faith cant save you.

How do we test if we have faith vs belief? How do we ACT on our faith?

 

[tribesman]

You can not focus on one word, unless you take it in context.

A major flaw in hermenuetics is to take one word totally out of context, and make a doctrine, Men have been doing this for years. it gets them into trouble.

...Word bro.

 

[BradC]

and scripture says ...

Romans 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.





James 1:21-23King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:



it is clear those who think that they are eternally saved the moment they believe are in error...

The hearers mentioned are those who had a problem with acting by faith on what they heard. They needed to receive with meekness the engrafted word so it could profit them in delivering their soul inwardly from the many temptations of the flesh and from the bondage and strength of sin that the law placed upon them. Some wavered in what they heard and were double-minded (double-souled) about it and it left them incapacitated from being able to receive anything from the Lord. Many were unstable and being tossed about by every wind of erring doctrine and needed to be established in the faith. Some believed and erred that they were being tempted by God and using this to justify why they were giving place to sin through the lust of the flesh.

The gift of salvation was not the issue but the deliverance or salvation of the soul from this inner double-mindedness which they suffered from through erroneous doctrine was the issue. They needed to take the word which they heard and mix faith with it and trust God. The doing part was first the trusting part and to put into practice what they heard by faith and when they did this it would rid them of their internal double-mindedness and give them soundness in their faith. This would free them to practice the perfect law of liberty and to be blessed in their deeds. James was dealing with the internal conflicts of the soul that these believers were occupied with and needed deliverance from so that they could stand fast in the liberty of that freedom and to be free to be a doer of the word with no inner conflicts. This was all part of a growing up process for believers in the body of Christ, the church.

 

[newbirth]

Yet james said belief is not enough, true faith is what saves,

How can you be saved if you have belief inn something (the demons believe yet tremble) but have no faith (it is dead)

As james said, your faith cant save you.

How do we test if we have faith vs belief? How do we ACT on our faith?

Originally Posted by SeaBass

If man desires to stand before God as righteous then man must choose to obey the gospel being baptized into Christ.

Man alone can never stand before God righteous but MUST be in Christ and be in Christ by being baptized in Christ and putting on Christ, put on His perfect righteousness.


So man's role in his own salvation is to get in and put on Christ, this is not forced upon any one by God it's done by choice of men.

this was your response to Seabass

yep. and how is this done?

Believe in the name of Christ and you will be saved.

You will have eternal life

it is not done by trying to be good. or trying to stay perfect. It is done by faith in Christ.

hence the reason I say you speak with a forked tongue...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this was your response to Seabass



hence the reason I say you speak with a forked tongue...​

And you love to twist things.

It is not proper english to say faith in the lord and you will have eternal life.

Proper english says believe in him.

Considering I just posted where true faith is required, and not just mere belief somethingn is true, You should have been a man and KNOWN I meant the type of belief which is trsting, assured, and engaged (faith) and not mere belief.

All you just proved is that you want to argue, and never listen to anything anyone has to say, and twist their words and meanings. ​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and scripture says ...

Romans 10:17

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.





James 1:21-23King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.

[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:



it is clear those who think that they are eternally saved the moment they believe are in error...

Yet more twisting of the word.

Hebrews and James (even paul if we read him correctly) teach those who have faith ACT on the word, and are not just hearers.

Many people belief the word is true, but never act, they never act, because they have no faith in the word.

It has nothing to do with what one does, it has everything to do with ones heart.

Do I have just mere belief.

or do I actually trust what I am hearing (faith)

 

[newbirth]

The hearers mentioned are those who had a problem with acting by faith on what they heard. They needed to receive with meekness the engrafted word so it could profit them in delivering their soul inwardly from the many temptations of the flesh and from the bondage and strength of sin that the law placed upon them. Some wavered in what they heard and were double-minded (double-souled) about it and it left them incapacitated from being able to receive anything from the Lord. Many were unstable and being tossed about by every wind of erring doctrine and needed to be established in the faith. Some believed and erred that they were being tempted by God and using this to justify why they were giving place to sin through the lust of the flesh.

so you think they are still saved in this position???....if they were then why would they need the engrafted word to save their souls..????

The gift of salvation was not the issue but the deliverance or salvation of the soul from this inner double-mindedness which they suffered from through erroneous doctrine was the issue. They needed to take the word which they heard and mix faith with it and trust God. The doing part was first the trusting part and to put into practice what they heard by faith and when they did this it would rid them of their internal double-mindedness and give them soundness in their faith. This would free them to practice the perfect law of liberty and to be blessed in their deeds. James was dealing with the internal conflicts of the soul that these believers were occupied with and needed deliverance from so that they could stand fast in the liberty of that freedom and to be free to be a doer of the word with no inner conflicts. This was all part of a growing up process for believers in the body of Christ, the church.

so you are saying the double minded man is still in Christ...how does that work ....????one part of your mind is serving Christ while the other is serving satan?? so you are become a double agent.....and loyal to no one....how then can you claim to have the gift of salvation???

 

[oldthennew]

Yet james said belief is not enough, true faith is what saves,

How can you be saved if you have belief inn something (the demons believe yet tremble) but have no faith (it is dead)

As james said, your faith cant save you.

How do we test if we have faith vs belief? How do we ACT on our faith?

==================================================

eg,

a powerful question - how we answer ourselves is really the basis of our identity in Christ.

(JAMES 2:14-17. - HEBREWS 11:8.)
these scriptures illustrate what 'living Faith' truly is.

Abraham didn't know where he was going but he heard God, believed Him, and obeyed -
this is a great example of serving God, no questions asked!?!?!
And the James scripture is a great example of - taking care of your neighbor's needs.

where ever we go TODAY, there WILL be a WAY to live our Faith out without a doubt -
it can be as simple as letting someone go ahead of you at a check-out-line or
literally saving someone's life -
IF we act according to His Will, we are abiding in His Light and manifesting His Love
through our actions.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

==================================================

eg,

a powerful question - how we answer ourselves is really the basis of our identity in Christ.

(JAMES 2:14-17. - HEBREWS 11:8.)
these scriptures illustrate what 'living Faith' truly is.

Abraham didn't know where he was going but he heard God, believed Him, and obeyed -
this is a great example of serving God, no questions asked!?!?!
And the James scripture is a great example of - taking care of your neighbor's needs.

where ever we go TODAY, there WILL be a WAY to live our Faith out without a doubt -
it can be as simple as letting someone go ahead of you at a check-out-line or literally saving someone' life -
IF we act according to His Will, we are abiding in His Light and manifesting His Love
through our actions.

Amen,

What many can not comprehend, and why we have so many legalists, is that everytime we do not do these things, or if we do things only for self (to get something in return), we are in sin.

so how many times do we sin a day?

 

[newbirth]

Yet more twisting of the word.

Hebrews and James (even paul if we read him correctly) teach those who have faith ACT on the word, and are not just hearers.

Many people belief the word is true, but never act, they never act, because they have no faith in the word.

It has nothing to do with what one does, it has everything to do with ones heart.

Do I have just mere belief.

or do I actually trust what I am hearing (faith)

James says it has to do with what you do...
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
now you are saying it has nothing to do with what one does....do you have more authority than James???

faith without works is dead...if all those who have faith ACT on the word ...then there would be no need for teachers and guides...some people believe for a while ...some act for a while...and do not endure...that is why the scripture teaches us to encourage each other...


Matthew 21:28-32King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

James says it has to do with what you do...
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
now you are saying it has nothing to do with what one does....do you have more authority than James???

No. James says it has to do with faith vs mere belief.

what does it prfit a man if he says he has faith but has no works. can his faith save him?

of course not, HIS FAITH IS DEAD (NON EXISTENT)

thats the part you ignore and do not want to here.

faith without works is dead...

amen, so how can someone be saved by faith if they have no faith?

You still have not answered that question.

if all those who have faith ACT on the word ...then there would be no need for teachers and guides...

yes there would be, if not then jesus would not send people out into the world. and have people teach us the word, we are saved as babes in christ, a baby needs taught.

sometimes I honestly do not know how you think.

some people believe for a while ...some act for a while...and do not endure...that is why the scripture teaches us to encourage each other...

james did not say this, he said they had no works, thus their faith is dead, now your twisting the word of God.

As the op says, those who believe (true faith) HAVE eternal life.

end of story

Matthew 21:28-32King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP]But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]For John came unto you in the way of righteousness, and ye believed him not: but the publicans and the harlots believed him: and ye, when ye had seen it, repented not afterward, that ye might believe him.

ok, so he did not believe in him.

how could this person be saved? he did not work because he did not believe. proves james was right, his faith was dead, thus he was never saved.

again, I sometimes do not know how you think, or if you think at all.

 

[crossnote]

I dont think anyone said the definition of true belief meant anything but continued.

That's the point, the OP's issue wasn't definition but tense of the verb and how that tense plays out.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What causes one to lose faith in someone or something? the only time we lose faith (if we really trust something) is when that thing we place our trust in fails us, When it leads us astray and we get hurt, when it is unable to do what we trusted it to do in the first place.

so for all those who think we can lose faith.

when has God ever failed us, led us astray, or become to the point he can not do what we trusted in the first place?

since these are the ONLY reasons someone loses faith in ANYTHING?

 

[sveinen]

What I am interested in is the full meaning from the original text of the word "believeth" as it is used in John 3:16.

I am asking because, recently I heard a Sermon where the Preacher said that in the original language, the "tense" this was used in means more than just simply believing something. Rather it means to come to believe, and continue in that belief. To never stop believing.

If this is true, then I look at John 3:16, and I see it saying........"whosoever believeth in, and continues in that belief......"

In a way, this would also explain another statement Jesus made........

Matthew 24:13 .) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.


If correct, then I can see why Jesus would say "he that shall endure unto the end..........." meaning he who continued in his belief, and never stopped believing in Jesus...........

SIDEBAR: This is not intended to support or argue against ANY Theological position. I'm simply asking for a clarification of the proper "tense" use of the word "believeth" in John 3:16

Thanks (ahead of time) for any effort you may put into answering this. I will check back later this evening to read your comment(s).

God bless

"we hope it's got to do with Forwards In Love -actively Being On The Right Side."