Question for Hizikyah, or Others

[crossnote]

What causes one to lose faith in someone or something? the only time we lose faith (if we really trust something) is when that thing we place our trust in fails us, When it leads us astray and we get hurt, when it is unable to do what we trusted it to do in the first place.

so for all those who think we can lose faith.

when has God ever failed us, led us astray, or become to the point he can not do what we trusted in the first place?

since these are the ONLY reasons someone loses faith in ANYTHING?

Of course thoee who argue one can lose their faith, ,have a man MANufactured faith and is not a God regenerated faith from on high.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Of course thoee who argue one can lose their faith, ,have a man MANufactured faith and is not a God regenerated faith from on high.

All I can say to you is try to tell that to Paul and the Galatians, that he said they fell from grace by going back to trying to be justified by the law. No longer in a saved position headed to eternal life.......

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Of course thoee who argue one can lose their faith, ,have a man MANufactured faith and is not a God regenerated faith from on high.

and how can we tell what their real faith is in? They lost faith, because their faith was not in God, but in something else (whatever that may be) and it failed them.

Most likely their faith was in self (even though they claim it was in God). How often do we fail ourselves? there is no faith in this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

All I can say to you is try to tell that to Paul and the Galatians, that he said they fell from grace by going back to trying to be justified by the law. No longer in a saved position headed to eternal life.......

Why did they fall?

because they never had faith to begin with,

Again, When did God fail them, that they had to go back to something else?

their faith was always in the law (their perverted misguided version of it, which would never fail them) thats why, as a dog, they returned to what was natural to them.

 

[oldthennew]

JAMES 4:17.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

I know that many times we do MISS opportunities to serve but, how many times
do we CHOOSE to ignore or turn our heads, deliberately avoiding our convicting consciences???
this IS SIN.
when we often observe those who are totally 'self-absorbed' in their own reality & world
and are actually oblivious to others needs, then our Father has set them in our paths so
that we do not follow suit - a leveling ground, so to speak for the Christian Walk.
to the Believer, life's circumstances are never coincidence.

 

[crossnote]

All I can say to you is try to tell that to Paul and the Galatians, that he said they fell from grace by going back to trying to be justified by the law. No longer in a saved position headed to eternal life.......

Falling from grace does not mean restoring to grace is impossible or that the fall is final...it's a warning to get back to grace.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Why did they fall?

because they never had faith to begin with,

Again, When did God fail them, that they had to go back to something else?

their faith was always in the law (their perverted misguided version of it, which would never fail them) thats why, as a dog, they returned to what was natural to them.

Yes they did as Peter brought in the teachings from the Lord to them, and then false teachers followed in and lead them astray to going back to the law. Which is why Paul said to them who has bewitched you to not continuing to obey the truth, and then called out Peter and blaming him for allowing this to happen. Chapter 1 verse 6 shows that they were once walking properly, and then turned away from His grace.

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

 

[kennethcadwell]

Falling from grace does not mean restoring to grace is impossible or that the fall is final...it's a warning to get back to grace.

It still shows that it can happen, and unless they repent they will stay lost and not have salvation/eternal life.
This is the point of the passage, that showing that one can fall from a saved position headed to eternal life to a not saved position headed to spiritual death........Yes they can come back in repentance, but if they don't repent they will not have eternal life.

 

[AuphirahQueen]

It still shows that it can happen, and unless they repent they will stay lost and not have salvation/eternal life.
This is the point of the passage, that showing that one can fall from a saved position headed to eternal life to a not saved position headed to spiritual death........Yes they can come back in repentance, but if they don't repent they will not have eternal life.

1 Peter 5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

About the Elders

5 Therefore, as a fellow elder and witness to the sufferings of the Messiah and also a participant in the glory about to be revealed, I exhort the elders among you: 2 Shepherd God’s flock among you, not overseeing[a] out of compulsion but freely, according to God’s will;[b] not for the money but eagerly; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
5 In the same way, you younger men, be subject to the elders. And all of you clothe yourselves with[c] humility toward one another, because
God resists the proud
but gives grace to the humble.[d]

6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that He may exalt you at the proper time,[e] 7 casting all your care on Him, because He cares about you.
Conclusion

8 Be serious! Be alert! Your adversary the Devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour. 9 Resist him and be firm in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are being experienced by your fellow believers throughout the world.
10 Now the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will personally[f] restore, establish, strengthen, and support you after you have suffered a little.[g] 11 The dominion[h] belongs to Him forever.[i] Amen.
12 I have written you this brief letter through Silvanus[j] (I know him to be a faithful brother) to encourage you and to testify that this is the true grace of God. Take your stand in it! 13 The church in Babylon,[k] also chosen, sends you greetings, as does Mark, my son. 14 Greet one another with a kiss of love.Peace to all of you who are in Christ.[l]

This is why folks need to read the Sacred Word for themselves instead of listening to folks on this site about sin, repentance, grace, forgiveness, and mercy. The Sacred Word has all the answers to your questions. Folks on this site will have folks believing that ABBA will not forgive them of SINS which is a lie. Folks are placing bondage, slavery, chains/shackles, yokes and burdens on people who is seeking forgiveness, and love from ABBA. Many have fallen from grace in the Sacred Word who was used by ABBA. There is not a perfect person on this site and if you are perfect the Sacred Words says," You are a LIER because all have fallen short of the GLORY!!

 

[kennethcadwell]

1 Peter 5 Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

About the Elders

5 Therefore, as a fellow elder and witness to the sufferings of the Messiah and also a participant in the glory about to be revealed, I exhort the elders among you: 2 Shepherd God’s flock among you, not overseeing[a] out of compulsion but freely, according to God’s will;[b] not for the money but eagerly; 3 not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4 And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.
5 In the same way, you younger men, be subject to the elders. And all of you clothe yourselves with[c] humility toward one another, because
God resists the proud
but gives grace to the humble.[d]

6 Humble yourselves, therefore, under the mighty hand of God, so that He may exalt you at the proper time,[e] 7 casting all your care on Him, because He cares about you.
Conclusion

8 Be serious! Be alert! Your adversary the Devil is prowling around like a roaring lion, looking for anyone he can devour. 9 Resist him and be firm in the faith, knowing that the same sufferings are being experienced by your fellow believers throughout the world.
10 Now the God of all grace, who called you to His eternal glory in Christ Jesus, will personally[f] restore, establish, strengthen, and support you after you have suffered a little.[g] 11 The dominion[h] belongs to Him forever.[i] Amen.
12 I have written you this brief letter through Silvanus[j] (I know him to be a faithful brother) to encourage you and to testify that this is the true grace of God. Take your stand in it! 13 The church in Babylon,[k] also chosen, sends you greetings, as does Mark, my son. 14 Greet one another with a kiss of love.Peace to all of you who are in Christ.[l]

This is why folks need to read the Sacred Word for themselves instead of listening to folks on this site about sin, repentance, grace, forgiveness, and mercy. The Sacred Word has all the answers to your questions. Folks on this site will have folks believing that ABBA will not forgive them of SINS which is a lie. Folks are placing bondage, slavery, chains/shackles, yokes and burdens on people who is seeking forgiveness, and love from ABBA. Many have fallen from grace in the Sacred Word who was used by ABBA. There is not a perfect person on this site and if you are perfect the Sacred Words says," You are a LIER because all have fallen short of the GLORY!!

The problem is they need to do more then just read, as they need to study the word with the Holy Spirit guiding them.
Instead they want to just read the black and white English translations, and take what others have told them as fact when it is not. Then when they do even go and use a little of the original Greek and Hebrew wording, they still take and use only half the definition. Just like they do with scriptures, as they use a handful of scriptures to fit their understanding but leave out others in which you need to get the full meaning/context.
I have seen some of my fellow brothers and sisters on here, including ones that went to a bible college still have the wrong context and usage on some scriptures.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes they did as Peter brought in the teachings from the Lord to them, and then false teachers followed in and lead them astray to going back to the law. Which is why Paul said to them who has bewitched you to not continuing to obey the truth, and then called out Peter and blaming him for allowing this to happen. Chapter 1 verse 6 shows that they were once walking properly, and then turned away from His grace.

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

1:6 never says anyone had faith in the gospel. and was saved, it says that some were removed from one who called them to Christ. thats all.



He is talking to the church as a whole. You know as well as I, Not everyone going to church is saved, His warning was to those who were not saved, not to those who had genuine faith in Christ,

they would never go back to law.

 

[dcontroversal]

Of course thoee who argue one can lose their faith, ,have a man MANufactured faith and is not a God regenerated faith from on high.

No doubt and I agree.....this whole thread rejects the actual definition of believe and it being tied to an Aorist Tense verb (is having) ......blows my mind for sure..........!

It amazes me how many who teach you can loose it will deny that they have lost it, how some sins are more grievous than other sins, can be re-earned, rejects Hebrews and it being IMPOSSIBLE to regain it IF it could be lost etc.

Blind leaders of the blind for sure....!

 

[dcontroversal]

1:6 never says anyone had faith in the gospel. and was saved, it says that some were removed from one who called them to Christ. thats all.



He is talking to the church as a whole. You know as well as I, Not everyone going to church is saved, His warning was to those who were not saved, not to those who had genuine faith in Christ,

they would never go back to law.

Not to mention that he leaves out chapter three and how they were adding works to faith for salvation.....and how someone who adds to faith for salvation teaches a lie that cannot save.....!

 

[dcontroversal]

The problem is they need to do more then just read, as they need to study the word with the Holy Spirit guiding them.
Instead they want to just read the black and white English translations, and take what others have told them as fact when it is not. Then when they do even go and use a little of the original Greek and Hebrew wording, they still take and use only half the definition. Just like they do with scriptures, as they use a handful of scriptures to fit their understanding but leave out others in which you need to get the full meaning/context.
I have seen some of my fellow brothers and sisters on here, including ones that went to a bible college still have the wrong context and usage on some scriptures.

Does that include you as well.......!

 

[AuphirahQueen]

The problem is they need to do more then just read, as they need to study the word with the Holy Spirit guiding them.
Instead they want to just read the black and white English translations, and take what others have told them as fact when it is not. Then when they do even go and use a little of the original Greek and Hebrew wording, they still take and use only half the definition. Just like they do with scriptures, as they use a handful of scriptures to fit their understanding but leave out others in which you need to get the full meaning/context.



I have seen some of my fellow brothers and sisters on here, including ones that went to a bible college still have the wrong context and usage on some scriptures.

It is not for us to judge them because we have no Heaven or Hell to place folks. Only ABBA knows their hearts,my and yours.

 

[BradC]

so you think they are still saved in this position???....if they were then why would they need the engrafted word to save their souls..????




so you are saying the double minded man is still in Christ...how does that work ....????one part of your mind is serving Christ while the other is serving satan?? so you are become a double agent.....and loyal to no one....how then can you claim to have the gift of salvation???

It is an inner conflict these believers were having, the same kind of conflict the Jews had when it came to law and grace and how righteousness came either through faith or the deeds of the law, circumcision or uncircumcision. Some in Galatia and in the other churches had been removed from him that called them into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. They were conflicted not being sound in the faith and were easily persuaded by their old roots. When anyone takes that step and believes upon the righteousness that comes by faith in Christ, the old roots have to be rooted out and that involved teaching the word and doctrine to build them up. Believers can be wishy-washy about what they believe and through sentimentality have that tendency to go back and entertain those things that do not require faith, such as those in Laodicea. They were not hot nor where they cold, they were wishy-washy and it was enough to make God sick to his stomach. It was not a salvation issue even with them (v.18, 20), it was the kind of fellowship that Christ wanted to have with them and what they gave place to in the mind of their soulish nature, that determined the kind of works they were or were not involved with. Verse 17, 18 describes their condition and what they were to do, (v.19) let's them know what God would do if they did not comply by faith with (v.18) and (v.20) describes the end result of what Christ desired for them in his relationship with them, FELLOWSHIP (supping). They were a self centered church in need of nothing and that included the fellowship of other believers of the body of Christ. They where exclusive and not inclusive and that is what made them lukewarm in their works.

 

[BradC]

In the last days some shall depart from the faith, faith in the finished work of Christ, faith in the mercy and grace of God that justifies the ungodly sinner, faith in the promises of God, faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ, faith in that God has not appointed the believer unto wrath and faith that declares there is no condemnation unto those who are in Christ. These who depart will give heed to seducing spirits and doctrine of devils that take away from the cross and the finished work of the cross, that trample and take away from the blood atonement, that do away with those who teach sound doctrine and doctrines that bring railing accusations against the members of Christ's body continually who are Spirit-filled and lay down their lives for one another.

All of this is a seduction process to get certain ones to drink from the cup and to eat from the table of devils. These doctrines will seduce certain ones into idolatry and into a system of faith where individuals do what is right in their own eyes (understanding) because they have their own brand of faith to do just as they please. They will live a life pleasing to themselves but not to God and call it living the gospel. They will be people oriented and have a legitimate concern for others but it will be without a cross and without the blood having a place in those relationships. They will adorn themselves with forms of covetousness that will be paraded as God's blessings of righteousness upon them because of the appearance and admiration that will come from others. However, inwardly their is no renewal in their heart, only envy, strife, jealousy, comparing with others because of being vainly puffed up in their fleshly mind.

 

[kennethcadwell]

1:6 never says anyone had faith in the gospel. and was saved, it says that some were removed from one who called them to Christ. thats all.



He is talking to the church as a whole. You know as well as I, Not everyone going to church is saved, His warning was to those who were not saved, not to those who had genuine faith in Christ,

they would never go back to law.

Yes it does which is why Paul says that he marvel, in other words he was surprised that when he came he saw them not walking properly in the Spirit as they were told. He then called out Peter for letting false teachers come in and lead them astray, and then warns the Galatians because they have turned from the grace to another gospel of justification of the law they have fallen from grace and need to come back to the Lord.

 

[sveinen]

...Word bro.

Please Do Focus In The Word One

 

[newbirth]

Why did they fall?

because they never had faith to begin with,

Again, When did God fail them, that they had to go back to something else?

their faith was always in the law (their perverted misguided version of it, which would never fail them) thats why, as a dog, they returned to what was natural to them.

if one is saved by grace through faith...then in order to fall from grace one must not have what they first had to be saved by grace .....which is faith...so to say they had no faith to begin with...means they never heard the word because faith comes by hearing the word of God....and if they never heard the word and had no faith how can they fall...they are already in a fallen state...

look at your next silly analogy... if their faith was always in the law...it means they never left the law ...how can they now return to something they never left???

you don't think ..nor do you believe the word of God ...you simply support a false doctrine which you do not even understand....