Question for Hizikyah, or Others

[p_rehbein]

Accepting that all this being said is true, then WHY did the Apostle Paul BELIEVE it NECESSARY to warn them at all?

As they can never lose what they have...............there should be no warning necessary...........only makes sense.

Paul should have said: Oh foolish Galatians, worry not your wee little heads, you can not lose what you have gained no matter what you do...........so, go forth and sing praises.

AND LEFT IT AT THAT.............right????????

 

[Sirk]

Accepting that all this being said is true, then WHY did the Apostle Paul BELIEVE it NECESSARY to warn them at all?

As they can never lose what they have...............there should be no warning necessary...........only makes sense.

Paul should have said: Oh foolish Galatians, worry not your wee little heads, you can not lose what you have gained no matter what you do...........so, go forth and sing praises.

AND LEFT IT AT THAT.............right????????

im honestly not sure I know where to land on this issue but I do know that if Noah would have stopped building his box it would not have floated. Given that there is a continuity in scripture this gives me pause as to where I land. Pun intended

 

[kennethcadwell]

Do you not know GOD in whom you serve? The ONE Who spoke and created heaven and earth and put stars in place and galaxies in motion. The ONE in whom even the wind and sea obey. The ONE whom no man can approach unless HE call them. The ONE who puts every breath in your lungs that you may exist at all. The ONE who is faithful in completion even to HIS every WORD. The ONE whose faithful WORD says, "Whom the SON sets free is free indeed." The ONE who says to those HE has called and has chosen: "Don't be afraid... only believe." and "Do not be anxious about ANYTHING." and "Come unto Me everyone who has worked hard and has heavy burdens and I will give you rest." and "Cast ALL your concerns to Me and I will take care of it." and "I God am not a man that I should lie, or a son of man that I would change My mind. Have I not said and will I not do it? Or have I not spoken and will I not fulfill it?"

The LORD our GOD in our midst is mighty; HE will save and rejoice over us with joy. HE will rest in HIS love for us and joy over us with loud singing. (Zeph 3:17)

The LORD knows how to rescue godly people from temptation. (2 Peter 2:9)

To HIM Who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before HIS glorious presence without fault and with great joy... (Jude 1:24)

We don't have a HIGH PRIEST who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but ONE Who was tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near WITH CONFIDENCE to the Throne of Grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Believe and receive the LORD's love and grace for you. HE will not fail you.

On the other hand, you can remain under the curse of the law and keep your eyes focused on yourself, keeping yourself in bondage again to fear and making every attempt to keep yourself obedient and holy to no avail, struggling with self-righteousness and pride in your own power, making the Cross of Christ of no effect, boasting of your keeping the law and making a mockery of the grace of Jesus Christ.

Preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified - or boast of your obedience. You can't have it both ways.

It is not self-righteousness though when you are doing what the Lord taught and commanded out of love for Him.
That and there is a big difference in keeping the law of Moses which those scriptures pertain to, and keeping the teachings and commands of the Lord. Nowhere in the NT, not even with Paul were the 10 commandments and all the words of the Lord in the gospel books done away with. ( Acts 15:20,29....Romans 13:9-10 )

 

[kennethcadwell]

Accepting that all this being said is true, then WHY did the Apostle Paul BELIEVE it NECESSARY to warn them at all?

As they can never lose what they have...............there should be no warning necessary...........only makes sense.

Paul should have said: Oh foolish Galatians, worry not your wee little heads, you can not lose what you have gained no matter what you do...........so, go forth and sing praises.

AND LEFT IT AT THAT.............right????????

He felt it necessary because it was, as pretty much all of his epistles were directed at believers and not unbelievers.
Even in his epistles to Timothy he warns Timothy of becoming impure do to sin again, and here you have one Apostle in Paul warning another Apostle in Timothy about this. So if an apostle can become impure do to sin, any believer can become impure do to sin.
So Paul warning Timothy puts a damper on the doctrine being taught that future sins are automatically forgiven before they are even committed, and repented or confessed of !!!

 

[dcontroversal]

Equally hard when one says that a truly regenerate child, sealed with His Spirit can in effect become unborn again, then upon repentance become reborn only to fall away to an unregenerate unborn state until once again they repent unto another rebirth ad infinitum ad nauseum.

No doubt and I agree.....by their own definition and belief the following is true..

1. If you can loose salvation then you are doomed to hell for ever, because if it can be lost it cannot be regained (Hebrews)
2. They qualify sin into categories and some sins cause you to loose it while others do not
3. They say you have a certain amount of time to change your mind, repent and stay saved
4. They have never lost it or have kept the word of God 100% since they have been saved
5. Their faith, walk and belief is perfect
6. They distinguish between works.... a work is a work is a work.....period
7. They deny Galatians and adding works (any work) to faith = gospel of a different kind with no power to save
8. They deny the perfect faith of Christ which is where our salvation and justification stands
9. They deny hundreds of scriptures in context that teach eternal security, eternal life, eternal justification, eternal sanctification based UPON JESUS and what he has done
10. The take the word salvation and make every place that it is used soul salvation
11. They ultimately trust into their abilities, their works, their walk over the faith of Christ
12. They deny words and verb tenses that PROOVE eternal security

And on and on and on

 

[VioletReigns]

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith --and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of WORKS, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What we can do: DIE TO SELF and TRUST THE LORD.

That is, abandon carnal intellect and self-efforts, none of which can ever be holy enough for God. Abandoning your life and even your intellect to Jesus Christ.

Spiritual works are what the Holy Spirit of God performs in us – The WILL of the FATHER, whereas the LORD receives ALL the glory.

Works of the law are man’s attempts at trying to become holy enough. – The will of the flesh, whereas man desires validation of his “obedience.”

Am I myself keeping the law of God? Or is the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus keeping His law in me by getting me to surrender my weak will and carnal intellect to Him more and more?

 

[dcontroversal]

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith --and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of WORKS, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What we can do: DIE TO SELF and TRUST THE LORD.

That is, abandon carnal intellect and self-efforts, none of which can ever be holy enough for God. Abandoning your life and even your intellect to Jesus Christ.

Spiritual works are what the Holy Spirit of God performs in us – The WILL of the FATHER, whereas the LORD receives ALL the glory.

Works of the law are man’s attempts at trying to become holy enough. – The will of the flesh, whereas man desires validation of his “obedience.”

Am I myself keeping the law of God? Or is the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus keeping His law in me by getting me to surrender my weak will and carnal intellect to Him more and more?

Exactly....as a living sacrifice....it is Jesus doing the works dia the Holy Spirit which is why salvation is a gift, based upon grace, eternally sealed, saved and justified by the perfect FAITH of Jesus working in us<---what the workers for salvation fail to understand!

The word of can be translated of or from and both indicate source..it is the perfect FAITH OF JESUS that saves and justifies us....! Galatians 2:16-21

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ephesians 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith --and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God; not of WORKS, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

What we can do: DIE TO SELF and TRUST THE LORD.

That is, abandon carnal intellect and self-efforts, none of which can ever be holy enough for God. Abandoning your life and even your intellect to Jesus Christ.

Spiritual works are what the Holy Spirit of God performs in us – The WILL of the FATHER, whereas the LORD receives ALL the glory.

Works of the law are man’s attempts at trying to become holy enough. – The will of the flesh, whereas man desires validation of his “obedience.”

Am I myself keeping the law of God? Or is the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus keeping His law in me by getting me to surrender my weak will and carnal intellect to Him more and more?

Spiritual works is what the Lord commanded and the Holy Spirit will guide you through.
Our Lord Jesus said more than once that a person who has true faith in Him will follow and keep all that He taught, and not just part of it. People have already gone astray in the great falling away by teaching a false doctrine that nothing or part of what the Lord matters, and does not have to be done for salvation. They cancel repentance, confession, baptism, forgiveness, and even walking in love. Which the Lord tied all of these to salvation, making them a part of a true believers life who has full faith and trust in the Lord.
People want to cancel all or part of those things out with Ephesians 2:8, but the problem is Ephesians is not talking about those things as it is talking about works of the law. Repentance, confession, baptism, forgiveness, and walking in love are not works of the law, for they are spiritual works commanded by the Lord for one's salvation. For even the Lord says in Matthew 25 that those who call Him Lord, but do not show love to others by helping those in need will be sent to eternal punishment and not eternal life. Their denial toward others is the same as denying Him.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No doubt and I agree.....by their own definition and belief the following is true..

1. If you can loose salvation then you are doomed to hell for ever, because if it can be lost it cannot be regained (Hebrews)
2. They qualify sin into categories and some sins cause you to loose it while others do not
3. They say you have a certain amount of time to change your mind, repent and stay saved
4. They have never lost it or have kept the word of God 100% since they have been saved
5. Their faith, walk and belief is perfect
6. They distinguish between works.... a work is a work is a work.....period
7. They deny Galatians and adding works (any work) to faith = gospel of a different kind with no power to save
8. They deny the perfect faith of Christ which is where our salvation and justification stands
9. They deny hundreds of scriptures in context that teach eternal security, eternal life, eternal justification, eternal sanctification based UPON JESUS and what he has done
10. The take the word salvation and make every place that it is used soul salvation
11. They ultimately trust into their abilities, their works, their walk over the faith of Christ
12. They deny words and verb tenses that PROOVE eternal security

And on and on and on

Hebrews nowhere in it says that if one looses salvation they can never regain it.
It only speaks of those who like to live in their willful sins and refuse to give them up, as in the love them more then the Lord. Those will refuse to repent and come back to Him, but in no way does the bible not even Hebrews say coming back in repentance is impossible.

 

[Splagna]

A little late in the the game but to answer the OP’s question: yes the preacher is right. Here’s a breakdown of verbs/participles in John 3:16:

“For God so loved (aorist/active/indicative) the world, that He gave (aorist/active/indicative) His only begotten Son, that whoever believes (present/active/participle) in Him shall not perish (aorist/middle/subjunctive), but have (present/active/subjunctive) eternal life (NASB).

It is grammatically plausible to read that the one who continues to trust (pisteuō=trusting one) will continue to have eternal life.

Footnote: John's Gospel doesn't use the noun pistis (faith/trust), as far as I can see at least. He uses the verb pisteuo 83x in the fourth gospel which is 39% of the verbs usage in the NT.

To John faith is a verb.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You need to reread the Galatians passage again. It doesn't say they are being lost or damned. The curse is on the false teachers who bring another Gospel...

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

hm.. Back to that old context thing huh? What a revelation that we should interpret the word in context.

I guess the curse given to the MAN who teaches a different gospel should be interpreted everyone in the church. if we are to believe what they claim it is saying.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is not at all what I said !!!

What I said was that Paul blamed Peter for allowing the false teachers to come in and lead the Galatians astray from the true gospel.

Galatians 2:11
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Once again Peter brought the gospel message of salvation to the Galatians first, then false teachers came in behind Peter and led the Galatians astray to go back to justification by the law. Paul blamed Peter for not making sure the Galatians continued to walk properly letting the false teachers come in and lead them astray.

Galatians 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Galatians 5:5
Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

They were walking properly, and as Paul said here they did run well in the truth, but then false teaching came in and lead them to not following/obeying the truth.

No, Paul had to chew peter out because peter offended the gentiles by refusing to eat meat when the jews were around.

Gal 2: [SUP]12 [/SUP]for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

He chewed him out for being a hypocrite, not anythign to do with any gospel. Does context not mean anything these days?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I read Galatians many of times, but I guess some like to look over this scripture;

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Paul says because they went back to being justified by the law, Christ has become of no effect to them. In other words it is saying that salvation through the Lord is no longer in their possession as they have turned and fallen from God's grace. One can not have salvation/eternal life if they do not have God's grace, which Paul clearly says they have fallen from.

Everyone is given a measure of grace. does that mean everyone is saved?

The mere fact hitler was allowed to live was by the grace of God, Grace is given to allow them the chance to be saved, when these people left the true gospel. and returned to law. they fell from grace, because nothing could convince them to return to grace, and the true gospel. Their fate was in stone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is a sin of commission and a sin of omission...........that's nothing new...........not even in Scripture..........

yet both, according to the law, carry a condemnation of death to the one who commits them.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Accepting that all this being said is true, then WHY did the Apostle Paul BELIEVE it NECESSARY to warn them at all?

As they can never lose what they have...............there should be no warning necessary...........only makes sense.

Paul should have said: Oh foolish Galatians, worry not your wee little heads, you can not lose what you have gained no matter what you do...........so, go forth and sing praises.

AND LEFT IT AT THAT.............right????????

why is this so? if your directing a message to a whole congregation. do you not direct the same message to all, even though you KNOW your message does nto relate to many of those who hear the message? Was he supposed to right a different letter to only those who had tried to add the law to grace for salvation, and another letter to those who did not with a different message? And how would he know who to send each letter too?

Not to mention. many who may not even come to a conclusion either way yet, but was contemplating which one to chose.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No, Paul had to chew peter out because peter offended the gentiles by refusing to eat meat when the jews were around.

Gal 2: [SUP]12 [/SUP]for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the rest of the Jews also played the hypocrite with him, so that even Barnabas was carried away with their hypocrisy.

He chewed him out for being a hypocrite, not anythign to do with any gospel. Does context not mean anything these days?

It was not just that hypocrisy of not eating with them in front of other Jews, it was also because of the false teaching of some that lead them away to justification by the law. You can see that by verses 14-16 as they were trying to force gentile believers to live by the law as they did.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You need to reread the Galatians passage again. It doesn't say they are being lost or damned. The curse is on the false teachers who bring another Gospel...

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

And yes I know this part of the scripture, so answer me this then.
It says anybody who preaches another gospel will be accursed, so why do so many then come and tell others you don't need to repent, be baptized, confess, and forgive others???

These are all things that the Lord taught in the gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. So if somebody is canceling those things out would they be preaching and teaching another gospel ???? I think they are.

 

[Splagna]

All I know is an aorist tense verb is used and directed at the (is having everlasting life)

it shows a continual, present result based upon a past completed action...

Got to respectfully disagree. In the clause, “but have eternal life” have (echō) is a present active subjunctive verb. This verb form indicates linear or continual action.

I had eternal life the day I believed
I have eternal life now
I continual to have eternal life into the future

If "to believe/trust" in this verse were in the aorist or perfect tense, it could mean a one time action in the past with continuing results. However, since 'to believe" is a present active participle, the emphasis is on a continuing action.

Thus the one trusting is having eternal life.

 

[Sirk]

Didn't Jesus say "he who has my commands and keeps them sometimes is the one who loves me"? Wait a minute...somethins wrong here.

 

[Splagna]

yet both, according to the law, carry a condemnation of death to the one who commits them.

According to the law, there was an atonement for unintentional sins, however, there wasn't for defiant sins.

[SUP]Numbers 15:28 [/SUP]The priest shall make atonement before the Lord for the person who goes astray when he sins unintentionally, making atonement for him that he may be forgiven. [SUP]29 [/SUP]You shall have one law for him who does anything unintentionally, for him who is native among the sons of Israel and for the alien who sojourns among them. [SUP]30 [/SUP]But the person who does anything defiantly, whether he is native or an alien, that one is blaspheming the Lord; and that person shall be cut off from among his people. [SUP]31 [/SUP]Because he has despised the word of the Lord and has broken His commandment, that person shall be completely cut off; his guilt will be on him.’”