Question for Hizikyah, or Others

[kennethcadwell]

It is not for us to judge them because we have no Heaven or Hell to place folks. Only ABBA knows their hearts,my and yours.

I don't judge them, but there is a big difference in judging somebody and then doing as Paul said and that is to reprove, rebuke, and then exhort somebody with the scriptures as he said in 2 Timothy 3:16. Reprove means to reprimand one when they are in the wrong, rebuke then is show them by scripture the right way, and then exhort them is to encourage them to look into that proper context on how to use it or apply to their life. So we are called to point out where they have been led astray by a false teaching. And the bible also speaks of those who think they are wise and fully educated in the word and think they are never wrong, as prideful and will be made to look foolish.
I myself have gained more insight while being on this site on some subjects of the bible, thanks to God working by the Holy Spirit through individuals. But I have also seen some that claim to be highly educated and correct in the word, using unedifying and unloving words toward others who disagree with them. This shows their fruit they produce by being that way, and if I see such a one using such unedifying and unloving tactics then by what the bible says; It says not to listen to them, and not even eat with such a person named a brother that continues to live in and not give up those sinful ways. As anything not done in a edifying or loving way is sin......

 

[kennethcadwell]

Not to mention that he leaves out chapter three and how they were adding works to faith for salvation.....and how someone who adds to faith for salvation teaches a lie that cannot save.....!

I did not leave out chapter three as I clearly said they were trying to be justified by the law, which is works of the law.
Once again I will say there is a big difference in works of the law ( works to earn, or obeying the Mosaic laws ), then that of the Spiritual works commanded by the Lord. It is that simple, and until one realizes and accepts the difference they will always have the whole context of works and faith and how they inter react with each other. One is wrong as in works to earn salvation, but the other as in spiritual works that our a product of a true faith that comes from hearing the word and then obeying what it said leading the one to salvation is required.

 

[p_rehbein]

and, again the OSAS stuff breaks out................goodness..............

 

[crossnote]

It still shows that it can happen, and unless they repent they will stay lost and not have salvation/eternal life.
This is the point of the passage, that showing that one can fall from a saved position headed to eternal life to a not saved position headed to spiritual death........Yes they can come back in repentance, but if they don't repent they will not have eternal life.

I'm sorry that your salvation is built on an IF and not a Faithful God.

 

[kennethcadwell]

and, again the OSAS stuff breaks out................goodness..............

It is kind of hard to get away from it when people keep mixing spiritual works and works of the law together, and say one who is following what the Lord said out of love for Him is a legalist and trying to earn their salvation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes it does which is why Paul says that he marvel, in other words he was surprised that when he came he saw them not walking properly in the Spirit as they were told. He then called out Peter for letting false teachers come in and lead them astray, and then warns the Galatians because they have turned from the grace to another gospel of justification of the law they have fallen from grace and need to come back to the Lord.

so your saying Paul told Peter he risked losing his salvation? You got to be kidding.

As in all his letters, His comments are towards certain people. Not everyone was trying to go back to law.

Again, Who is going to go back to law, who had true faith in Christ? And why would they? Do you even understand what they were giving up?

 

[kennethcadwell]

I'm sorry that your salvation is built on an IF and not a Faithful God.

My foundation is just fine through the Lord Jesus Christ and what He did for us.
The thing people don't like to see though is that if somebody continues to walk in willful sins, or turns to follow after a false teaching/gospel then they will not have salvation/eternal life like the Galatians did. Paul was warning them if they did not return back to the Lord then they would not be saved for turning from the true gospel to following after a false gospel. The only way one can return is through repentance.
Read 1 Corinthians 5 as this chapter shows in it that if a person considers themselves a brother or sister in Christ but continues to walk in willful sin and not giving it up, to cast them out of the church and not associate with them. The purpose for this is by shunning the person they would hopefully take a look at themselves or by finally hitting rock bottom they would repent of their ways. Nowhere does the bible say a person can be saved, and walk in willful sins both.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

if one is saved by grace through faith...then in order to fall from grace one must not have what they first had to be saved by grace .....which is faith...so to say they had no faith to begin with...means they never heard the word because faith comes by hearing the word of God....and if they never heard the word and had no faith how can they fall...they are already in a fallen state...

look at your next silly analogy... if their faith was always in the law...it means they never left the law ...how can they now return to something they never left???

you don't think ..nor do you believe the word of God ...you simply support a false doctrine which you do not even understand....

No, your the one who does not understand,

If I give you the gospel. I have handed you grace, If you decide you want to try this newfangled thing out, and then at a later time, you decide it is not for you, you want to go back to whatever (legalism or the world) then you You have taken the gift offered to you, and thrown it out (you have fallen from Grace) without ever having actually recieved it (been saved)

It does not mean you were ever saved.

But you want to be the pharisee, Puff yourself up. Earn the gift of God (which can not be earned) and place yourself above the law of God, Which condemns you apart from Gods grace (you reject grace and try to replace it with works)

the sad thing is, the very thing the authors were preaching against (legalism) you practice. and you can not even see it.

 

[crossnote]

It is kind of hard to get away from it when people keep mixing spiritual works and works of the law together, and say one who is following what the Lord said out of love for Him is a legalist and trying to earn their salvation.

Equally hard when one says that a truly regenerate child, sealed with His Spirit can in effect become unborn again, then upon repentance become reborn only to fall away to an unregenerate unborn state until once again they repent unto another rebirth ad infinitum ad nauseum.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and, again the OSAS stuff breaks out................goodness..............

of course, the op itself was a slam against OSAS, (stating salvation can be lost if one stops believing) so it would naturally go to an osas conversation.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Equally hard when one says that a truly regenerate child, sealed with His Spirit can in effect become unborn again, then upon repentance become reborn only to fall away to an unregenerate unborn state until once again they repent unto another rebirth ad infinitum ad nauseum.

i wonder if God gets dizzy, having to seal someone, then take that seal away, then seal him again, then remove it again.

I wonder if he ever says enough is enough, I am done with this person. He can repent 1000 times, I will never save him again,

 

[crossnote]

My foundation is just fine through the Lord Jesus Christ and what He did for us.
The thing people don't like to see though is that if somebody continues to walk in willful sins, or turns to follow after a false teaching/gospel then they will not have salvation/eternal life like the Galatians did. Paul was warning them if they did not return back to the Lord then they would not be saved for turning from the true gospel to following after a false gospel. The only way one can return is through repentance.
Read 1 Corinthians 5 as this chapter shows in it that if a person considers themselves a brother or sister in Christ but continues to walk in willful sin and not giving it up, to cast them out of the church and not associate with them. The purpose for this is by shunning the person they would hopefully take a look at themselves or by finally hitting rock bottom they would repent of their ways. Nowhere does the bible say a person can be saved, and walk in willful sins both.

You need to reread the Galatians passage again. It doesn't say they are being lost or damned. The curse is on the false teachers who bring another Gospel...

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

 

[kennethcadwell]

so your saying Paul told Peter he risked losing his salvation? You got to be kidding.

As in all his letters, His comments are towards certain people. Not everyone was trying to go back to law.

Again, Who is going to go back to law, who had true faith in Christ? And why would they? Do you even understand what they were giving up?

That is not at all what I said !!!

What I said was that Paul blamed Peter for allowing the false teachers to come in and lead the Galatians astray from the true gospel.

Galatians 2:11
But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Once again Peter brought the gospel message of salvation to the Galatians first, then false teachers came in behind Peter and led the Galatians astray to go back to justification by the law. Paul blamed Peter for not making sure the Galatians continued to walk properly letting the false teachers come in and lead them astray.

Galatians 3:1
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

Galatians 5:5
Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?

They were walking properly, and as Paul said here they did run well in the truth, but then false teaching came in and lead them to not following/obeying the truth.

 

[kennethcadwell]

You need to reread the Galatians passage again. It doesn't say they are being lost or damned. The curse is on the false teachers who bring another Gospel...

Galatians 1:6-9
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

I read Galatians many of times, but I guess some like to look over this scripture;

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Paul says because they went back to being justified by the law, Christ has become of no effect to them. In other words it is saying that salvation through the Lord is no longer in their possession as they have turned and fallen from God's grace. One can not have salvation/eternal life if they do not have God's grace, which Paul clearly says they have fallen from.

 

[Sirk]

My foundation is just fine through the Lord Jesus Christ and what He did for us.
The thing people don't like to see though is that if somebody continues to walk in willful sins, or turns to follow after a false teaching/gospel then they will not have salvation/eternal life like the Galatians did. Paul was warning them if they did not return back to the Lord then they would not be saved for turning from the true gospel to following after a false gospel. The only way one can return is through repentance.
Read 1 Corinthians 5 as this chapter shows in it that if a person considers themselves a brother or sister in Christ but continues to walk in willful sin and not giving it up, to cast them out of the church and not associate with them. The purpose for this is by shunning the person they would hopefully take a look at themselves or by finally hitting rock bottom they would repent of their ways. Nowhere does the bible say a person can be saved, and walk in willful sins both.

So is there a difference between willful sin and non willful sin? Does God say, he did that one on purpose but that one was an accident?

 

[p_rehbein]

There is a sin of commission and a sin of omission...........that's nothing new...........not even in Scripture..........

 

[crossnote]

I read Galatians many of times, but I guess some like to look over this scripture;

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.


Paul says because they went back to being justified by the law, Christ has become of no effect to them. In other words it is saying that salvation through the Lord is no longer in their possession as they have turned and fallen from God's grace. One can not have salvation/eternal life if they do not have God's grace, which Paul clearly says they have fallen from.

Falling from grace as Paul puts it no where infers a loss of salvation. Please.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Falling from grace as Paul puts it no where infers a loss of salvation. Please.

So you believe a person can not have God's grace and still be saved ???


Sorry, but that would be false teaching as the whole context of how one is saved is by grace from God through our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. If you do not have God's grace, then it shows your faith is not in the Lord.

Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[VioletReigns]

Do you not know GOD in whom you serve? The ONE Who spoke and created heaven and earth and put stars in place and galaxies in motion. The ONE in whom even the wind and sea obey. The ONE whom no man can approach unless HE call them. The ONE who puts every breath in your lungs that you may exist at all. The ONE who is faithful in completion even to HIS every WORD. The ONE whose faithful WORD says, "Whom the SON sets free is free indeed." The ONE who says to those HE has called and has chosen: "Don't be afraid... only believe." and "Do not be anxious about ANYTHING." and "Come unto Me everyone who has worked hard and has heavy burdens and I will give you rest." and "Cast ALL your concerns to Me and I will take care of it." and "I God am not a man that I should lie, or a son of man that I would change My mind. Have I not said and will I not do it? Or have I not spoken and will I not fulfill it?"

The LORD our GOD in our midst is mighty; HE will save and rejoice over us with joy. HE will rest in HIS love for us and joy over us with loud singing. (Zeph 3:17)

The LORD knows how to rescue godly people from temptation. (2 Peter 2:9)

To HIM Who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you before HIS glorious presence without fault and with great joy... (Jude 1:24)

We don't have a HIGH PRIEST who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but ONE Who was tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin. Therefore let us draw near WITH CONFIDENCE to the Throne of Grace, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. Believe and receive the LORD's love and grace for you. HE will not fail you.

On the other hand, you can remain under the curse of the law and keep your eyes focused on yourself, keeping yourself in bondage again to fear and making every attempt to keep yourself obedient and holy to no avail, struggling with self-righteousness and pride in your own power, making the Cross of Christ of no effect, boasting of your keeping the law and making a mockery of the grace of Jesus Christ.

Preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified - or boast of your obedience. You can't have it both ways.

 

[kennethcadwell]

So is there a difference between willful sin and non willful sin? Does God say, he did that one on purpose but that one was an accident?

The willful sinner the bible refers to is one who continues to do whatever they want, and not walk as the Lord said to walk.
No repentance, no confession, no sorrow for what they did, and no attempt to even change their ways.
Paul states over and over again a born again believer will learn to and establish obedience and self control, because the Holy Spirit will lead them to righteousness and not uncleanness. If a person is still walking in unrepented, or unconfessed sins then they are walking an impure life in which Paul says no impure person will inherit the kingdom of heaven. Even in the OT is states one who willfully sins is one who continues to do things on purpose. You know its wrong, but you don't care and do it any way.
It is amazing how many times the NT speaks of obedience and abstaining from sins and yet it still does not sink into the minds and hearts of some who read it.