SALVATION

[Grace777x70]

Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1 John 3:7 (KJV, MBM)

Romans 10:3-5 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

 

[RBA238]

Can you expand on this and explain what you are saying? because i cannot figure it out..

Not to. be evasive to your question; what i qas stating is for people on here, to read The Apostle's Docrine beggining in Acts 2,.entire chapter, pay particular Attention to following verses in that Chapter..verses 37, 38, and 42.

Then later, if you have a spare 30 deconds, read
I Timothy 4 verse 16 What it states. Itis very important for all of us to pay close attention to what all of that states. Anyone with a question is free to ask and I will respond..I have Church in 30 minutes, but I promise to be back and respond to all questions or statements..Thanks!

 

[Grace777x70]

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
1 John 2:4-5 (KJV, MBM)

And John told us exactly what His commandments are in the New Covenant in this very same epistle. Remember we are to listen to the "now" word of God.

Stop slaying "Isaacs" and listen to the "now" word of God concerning His Son - our Lord Jesus Christ.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

 

[Grace777x70]

Anyway enough has been posted from many to warn the saints about this law-keeper anti-Christ religion. The Holy Spirit will use that to keep the saints on track in trusting in Jesus only for life and living.

Everyone has a great day!

 

[CeileDe]

I guess I am late in this conversation and haven't read through every post. So as Christians if we follow this verse "'You must love the LORD your God with all your heart, all your soul, all your strength, and all your mind.' And, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" wouldn't we also be following the Law automatically?

How do Christians know we aren't suppose to have any other Gods besides the true God? Because He told us in the commandments. How do we know we shouldn't have idols to worship? Again He told us in His commandments. You can see where I am going with this so I don't need to state them all.

As Christians we automatically follow the commandments so in a way they aren't abolished so to speak. I don't believe we are saved by the commandments because this would be works and we aren't saved by works. So unless someone is saying we are saved by the Law then the argument really doesn't matter. Just my opinion.

 

[disciplemike]

Hard to believe, but it is being said by "grace only" people, that we should not obey God's commandments.
I was also under that delusion for a time.
People are beginning to wake up.
God did not "save" you so you can go on sinning.
God is calling people back to Him, to live in a way that is pleasing to Him.

 

[disciplemike]

But after they had rest, they did evil again before thee: therefore leftest thou them in the hand of their enemies, so that they had the dominion over them: yet when they returned, and cried unto thee, thou heardest [them] from heaven; and many times didst thou deliver them according to thy mercies; And testifiedst against them, that thou mightest bring them again unto thy law: yet they dealt proudly, and hearkened not unto thy commandments, but sinned against thy judgments, (which if a man do, he shall live in them and withdrew the shoulder, and hardened their neck, and would not hear.
Nehemiah 9:28-29 (KJV, MBM)

 

[CeileDe]

I can agree with this, BUT, does the continuation of sin prevent a Christian to enter heaven? I believe that as a Christian when we focus on God and this in turn helps us to stay away from sin. Not one of us will ever truly not sin in our lives but with the help from the Lord it becomes less and less.

 

[Grace777x70]

Hard to believe, but it is being said by "grace only" people, that we should not obey God's commandments.
I was also under that delusion for a time.
People are beginning to wake up.
God did not "save" you so you can go on sinning.
God is calling people back to Him, to live in a way that is pleasing to Him.

The truth is that "law-keepers" are the very ones NOT obeying God's word about His Son.

His commandments in the New Covenant are these in 1 John 3:23 and NOT following the Law of Moses.

This is why the law-keepers religion is an anti-Christ one although it maintains the "appearance" of good but denies the Lord Jesus' finished work on the cross and resurrection.

1 John 3:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us.

We are only saved by grace through faith in Christ's work - NOT by Law keeping.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

[SUP]9 [/SUP] not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

The life of Christ that is in us now will lead us to walk in the good works that God had already prepared for us to do. It's a manifestation of His life in us - it doesn't come by law-keeping.

It's time to believe the "now" word of God and to stop slaying "Isaacs" by tryi9ng to live from the Old Covenant and start to believe in Christ's finished work for us. We live in the "now" word of God which is the New Covenant in His Son - our Lord Jesus Christ.

It's time to be obedient to the faith and believe the gospel of Christ and to believe in Him only for life and living.

 

[PeterJens]

Lawlessness to trying to establish your own righteousness by what "you do". Lawlessness is relying on what you do instead of Christ's finished work.

I am not sure people are able to use english here.

To be law abiding, is to follow a set of moral or safety laws.
To be a law breaker is not to follow a particular law.
To be lawless is to not even acknowledge there are any laws at all.
Lawlessness is being in a state of being lawless.

Righteousness is the biblical sense is both doing the right thing, obeying the law and
having faith in God. Both are actually necessary.

One can be considered righteous because your sin is forgiven and you have faith in
the redemption of Christ or its equivalent, before the cross.

So the statement above is not using the right words.
If you hold that just having faith in Christ redeems you no matter how you behave and
their is no law that applies to you, you are literally lawless.

It does not mean you do not obey a set of rules, it is just you do not recognise the rules
at all.

 

[disciplemike]

I am not sure people are able to use english here.

To be law abiding, is to follow a set of moral or safety laws.
To be a law breaker is not to follow a particular law.
To be lawless is to not even acknowledge there are any laws at all.
Lawlessness is being in a state of being lawless.

Righteousness is the biblical sense is both doing the right thing, obeying the law and
having faith in God. Both are actually necessary.

One can be considered righteous because your sin is forgiven and you have faith in
the redemption of Christ or its equivalent, before the cross.

So the statement above is not using the right words.
If you hold that just having faith in Christ redeems you no matter how you behave and
their is no law that applies to you, you are literally lawless.

It does not mean you do not obey a set of rules, it is just you do not recognise the rules
at all.

well said.

 

[PeterJens]

Just as a note, some hold the problem in the church is completely those who
believe in any law or morality.

Some have now started to call this anti-christian, and talk about another religion
than Christs.

But in truth it is they who have left the faith, and are on the road to universalism.
As their anger rises, the more extreme words like foolish, lies, slander, malice,
rubbish are used with a real desire to make everyone angry and loose it.

Just stay calm, because Christ is working His purposes out in these people.
They are mainly ex-legalists in the real sense, justifying themselves from childhood
in doing the right thing, then loosing their faith, and now converted to hyper-grace
with a deep vengence to convert all believers over to their new revelation.

They will change how the express themselves and want to appear like us simply
to win people over, when their whole construct is a different mystical religion.

 

[Grace777x70]

All D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religious mindset base righteousness on what "they do" and not on what Christ has already done by His perfect work on the cross and resurrection.

They totally miss the death and resurrection of the believer in Christ on the cross and in being raised from the dead too which is why the D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness workers need to obtain and maintain their own righteousness - right standing with God.

This mindset must water down the Law to make it seem "do-able" so that they can create and maintain their own righteousness. It is an anti-Christ belief system.

Paul speaks of these types here :

Romans 10:2-5 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

[SUP]4 [/SUP] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.

 

[disciplemike]

some can only focus on their "free ticket to heaven".

they deny the righteous instructions of an all-knowing God.

 

[PeterJens]

I have to laugh because of this idea of DIY self righteousness.

Part of the gospel is DIY, you have to believe, you have to follow, you have to
obey. You cannot get someone else to believe for you, follow for you, and obey
for you.

But the reason it is biting, because they are saying any response from the believer
is taking the place of Christs work and not just the legitimate recognition of salvation
and Christs work, and walking in the empowering of the Holy Spirit.

Now the reason DIY is used so often because they feel it hurts and hits home.
But actually it just demonstrates the miss-understanding they have of salvation, and
the privilege our Lord and friend has raised us up to walk in, in the Kingdom of Heaven,
as His people who freely exercise His authority. Because we choose, and that is the
whole point, it is not earning salvation, it is literally walking in it.

The only reason this is being missed, is because at its core, they are not walking in it.
It has taken me sometime to discern the spiritual blindness here, but we assume we see
alike, because most real believers do, surprisingly but not really, but they do not.

I have shared about some simple emotional realities of the Kingdom, and it is like I am
talking a different language. They will often get theology and scripture wrong, miss-quote
and miss-construe so much to fit their ideas, but with zero bad conscience.

In their world there is no judgement from God, or even fear of Him.
Except ofcourse for us, who do not have their revelation, and are doomed to burn in hell
for all eternity, while they revel in their wealth and health here on earth, ushering in the
1,000 year reign with Christ. The joke is this gospel has been preached since the 50's
and that generation have now died, so you would have thought the message might have
come home.

 

[PeterJens]

A DIF response to Christ is marvelous.
Do in faith

 

[Grace777x70]

The D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness religious mindset focuses on the "laws" that "they do with their own good works" and not on Christ Himself. These are seen when Christ talked to the Pharisees ( who were relying on their keeping of the Law ).

Jesus said that they think in the scriptures themselves there is life just like the D.I.Y-ers think there is in their "rule keeping" - but they will not submit themselves to the righteousness of God and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ only for salvation and true life.

John 5:39-40 (NASB)
[SUP]39 [/SUP] "You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me;

[SUP]40 [/SUP] and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Religious D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindsets do not rely on Christ's life inside of them for living but rely on "what they do" by observing the Law and "their good works" instead of relying totally on Christ's finished work.

This is why the D.I.Y. mindset is anti-Christ in it's belief system but has the "appearance" of good. They are still eating from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. We have the tree of Life now - which is Christ Himself.

Choose Life which is only found in Him alone and not in our own good works.

 

[pottersclay]

again, if Messiah lives in you, you will obey your Father.
is that so difficult to understand?

For you it is

 

[pottersclay]

Mike you said that Adam knew the law and so did noah by knowing what was clean from unclean.
Which I disagree with but that's another thread. My point is this..
Do you want to remain in the first Adam...or do you want to be found in the second Adam ...up to you.

 

[disciplemike]

Mike you said that Adam knew the law and so did noah by knowing what was clean from unclean.
Which I disagree with but that's another thread. My point is this..
Do you want to remain in the first Adam...or do you want to be found in the second Adam ...up to you.

Did I say Adam?
I think I said Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean animals.
He knew how many unclean and clean animals to put on the ark, right?

what do you mean remain in the first Adam? is there a Scripture reference for that?