Self Defense - Is it wrong?

[4enlightment]

He's trolling. Obviously, God knew that it was a serious enough situation that He decided to take over on my behalf speaking words through me that were not my own for my protection and his benefit. A very cool experience.

And yes, definitely "warning bells" were ringing.

Exodus 9:30
But I know that you and your officials still do not fear the Lord God.”

Job 41:10No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?

We all is not afraid to go against God by violating His Laws, but we are so afraid of His creations. Elijah was started to go down hill when he was afraid of Jezebel's army, and so God had to show him His great power to let Elijah know who is greater. But Gd had seen that Elijah was at his peak, so God had replaced him with. If something unfortunate has happened to us, whatever happend, it is all God's will.

 

[Allin]

It could go either way in my experience Allin. God may intervene and dispel the threat or allow you to learn a hard lesson in preparedness. I've been through both in my lifetime.

If it's the latter, I hope you won't have to spend the rest of your life in a wheelchair (assuming you survive). Google real crime scene photos.

When I said it's all one thing I meant it. Proceed in naiveté at your own risk.

I was in a cell group meeting once-- my first time there-- and thought it was the dumbest thing I ever did. I couldn't wait to leave, and after the final prayer (finally), I made a beeline for the door. A guy put his hand on my shoulder and stopped me. He said he had a vivid vision to share. The sum of the vision was that God was protecting me from attacks that I wasn't aware of ("Many are they that say of my soul, 'There is no help for him in God"... wrong) and that God would continue to do so. After that, God gave me this passage: "Though I walk in the midst of trouble, You will revive me; You will stretch out Your hand against the wrath of my enemies, and Your right hand will save me" (Ps. 138:7). The same passage ends: "The Lord will perfect that which concerns me; Your mercy, oh Lord, is forever; do not forsake the works of Your hands" (v. 8). I have seen this "though I walk in the midst of trouble, You will [protect me] many more times than I can count... and those are the times I was aware of it. According to the man's vision and my spirit, there have been many more times I wasn't aware of it. I believe in exercising wisdom as Jesus said to be wise as serpents (confidence) and harmless as doves (innocence) just as He was. However, everything really comes down to the beginning of everything which is God; it is best to seek His own protection above everything, because in such instances, you find yourself walking in more and more peace no matter where you are and defending yourself less and less. Your car may crash 70mph into a tree, and you come out literally unscathed without even a skipped heartbeat. This is God's promise to anyone who "dwells in the secret place of the Most High" (and our part is to find out what exactly that secret place is).

Here's one instance of 'real-time' protection that happened in the summer of '08-- the strangest instance so far: I was living next door to a guy (let's call him Tim) who I believed was a satanist (don't ask). My friend (call him John) and I went somewhere and saw God intervene on our behalf when some 'principalities' (Eph. 6) tried to stop us from getting something we needed. The very next day, we were praying in my place with the front door open (it was warm enough out) when at exactly 11pm, Tim next door began banging on his front door and screaming. From my place, we could hear him cussing some unseen thing and speaking in the plural tense: "Why are you hurting us", etc. We went to his place and I knocked on the door, asking if he was okay. I already knew what was going on, but John only had an idea and gasped, "He has the Legion!" (By this time, it was apparent that demons were speaking through Tim. You would have to be really dense to not be aware of the plural tense and the voice change.) Well, I wasn't going to exactly 'release' him into the neighborhood, so I didn't open his door which he was trying to kick outward (though it opened inward). John and I went back to my place and just kept praying... Then suddenly, we heard Tim's door break outward. Seconds later, he was standing in my doorway stark naked. He was in his late fifties and was pretty frail; but now he was suddenly muscular and looked at least 100 times stronger than he really was. He looked very sturdy, like he could fling both of us around easily. Looking past John, he (they) said to me while he stood there, his long white hair in wisps behind him, "You have been getting in the way too long... We're going to have to punish you." I thought I was pretty much already punished by then, but when he went to take a step into my place, he suddenly fell over like a late autumn leaf falling from a tree. So sturdy in appearance, like a rock, he suddenly appeared like a fragile leaf. Long story short, he laid there till we could call the medics (and cover him with a towel), accusing me of all kinds of things. When the medics came, he was foaming at the mouth, naked and covered in a towel on my carpet. They said he'd had a diabetic fit; John and I knew much better. I remember the story of the seven sons of Sceva where one man, because of the demons in him, manhandled seven men and sent them running. In this instance, this guy was able to do that too; but God intervened and made him bow down and lay still so he couldn't cause any harm to me or anything in my place. That's why I say that it's best to depend (rely or lean heavily on) God for protection, because He does it all the time even when we aren't aware... and because He can do it when it regards all types of harm: physical, spiritual, etc. The more He does the protecting, the less we have to and the more rest we have just as with Jesus: "He will command His angels concerning you... In their hands they will bear you up... You will tread on the lion and cobra... you will trample underfoot" (Ps. 91).

 

[Deadtosin]

Exodus 9:30
But I know that you and your officials still do not fear the Lord God.”

Job 41:10No one is fierce enough to rouse it.
Who then is able to stand against me?

We all is not afraid to go against God by violating His Laws, but we are so afraid of His creations. Elijah was started to go down hill when he was afraid of Jezebel's army, and so God had to show him His great power to let Elijah know who is greater. But Gd had seen that Elijah was at his peak, so God had replaced him with. If something unfortunate has happened to us, whatever happend, it is all God's will.

1Samuel 17
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And David said to Saul, Let no man's heart fail because of him; thy servant will go and fight with this Philistine.

 

[Allin]

I am familiar with this "innocence, confidence" It does work as you say. Not being intimidated and being ready shows you're formidable. By being innocent, it doesn't play against their pride, it leaves them many ways out. I completely agree. You are lucky that you haven't had it go beyond that though. I have.

I've had it go beyond only when I faced it instead of letting God take care of it. I don't mind fighting at all (I love MMA and all that); but I prefer to spend time fighting real enemies and not waste time with people who aren't even my enemies. The thing is that real enemies you can't fight with natural weapons (Eph. 6:10-18, 2Cor. 10:3-6). God doesn't protect people in every instance; it's different for different reasons the main one being 'the freedom of will' or freedom for each person to exercise their will. In fact, I've decided to start a thread after this to explain some of the reasons God protects people and some of the reasons He doesn't. If we are not in the household of God, then it's normal for us not to know things about God and answers to questions; but when we come into the family of God, we are now children, and fathers tell sons and daughters answers when they ask, "Why?" God gives evidence that it is His intention to answer our questions by making little kids naturally inquisitive so that their parents will teach them things. Therefore, Jesus said, "Which one of you fathers, when his son asks him for bread will give him a stone, or when he asks him for fish will give him a serpent? You [parents] being evil know how to give good things to your children. How much more will God give to those who ask Him?" So, I'm going to share some of the things I've learned about who God protects and doesn't and give some Biblical examples. It's an overall, not detailed, so it's not meant to cover every single aspect. There are so many variables in the protection issue, as with most things, that only the Holy Spirit can reveal every single aspect if needed.

 

[Deadtosin]

I completely trust God for everything, make no mistake. In the mountains I will explain to my group to run down hill and zig in and out between the trees if we are attacked by a bear. You see. A bear can run 35 mph and it doesn't matter if it is flat or uphill. However, running downhill and changing direction is another trick with that much weight and momentum. However I would not be running, whether with a knife or a small boulder roughly the size of both of my fists I would stay. I would not be scared. Why? is it because I think God will make the bear to lie down? no, either A: the bear will realize I'm not afraid and this isn't worth it. Or B: the Lord will deliver the bear unto my hand. If not? if it is the Lords will that I sacrifice my life, so be it. I will then only have one last mission. To do my best to ensure the bear is in no condition to chase anyone else.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

It's nice to know there's a few dependable people here with Deadtosin foremost among them.

I remember a WWII war Marine veteran once telling me about Guadalcanal. This guy was the real deal. He shot Japs out of trees and did his part in repelling Ichiki's full frontal assault.

He said there were three kinds of people on that island. There was the one's who did the fighting and secured the victory... men like himself. He likened them to the skeleton of the body. These were the guys that climbed up jungle hills under enemy fire to get a superior position. He told me he even saw one of them once grab a Jap on the lip of a cave and pull him out tossing him to his death on the ground below. He had the most respect for these men.

Then there were the support personnel. They weren't so good at fighting but they knew how to move supplies, call in artillery, facilitate communications, repair and maintain the weaponry, etc... He said they were the muscle of the body that complimented the skeleton. He had a good respect for the muscle of the operation.

Lastly, of course, were the thumb suckers. That's what he called them: "thumb suckers." These were the cowardly and/or totally inept. He said they were the fat that drug everyone else down and put everyone at risk. He told me what they did with these ones. He said we dug a big trench and when the fighting started we put them in there so they would be safe and they lie at the bottom scared shi*tless. A few even laid at the bottom with their eyes closed sucking their thumbs overcome by fear. That's where the name "thumb suckers" came from.

The thumb suckers did have one use; however. The veterans would bring replacement personnel for the men that died over to the trench and show them the thumb suckers and tell them if they didn't perform: that's where they were going and that's how they would be remembered.

So which are you? Are you the skeleton, the muscle, or a fat thumb sucker? All that "theology" goes right out the window when the fighting starts and your actions reveal your utility.

I'm aging with arthritis so I'm more muscle than skeleton today but I was skeleton in my youth. What I will NEVER be; however, is a fat thumb sucker hiding behind liberal theology on planet delusional.

 

[Sirk]

It's nice to know there's a few dependable people here with Deadtosin foremost among them.

I remember a WWII war Marine veteran once telling me about Guadalcanal. This guy was the real deal. He shot Japs out of trees and did his part in repelling Ichiki's full frontal assault.

He said there were three kinds of people on that island. There was the one's who did the fighting and secured the victory... men like himself. He likened them to the skeleton of the body. These were the guys that climbed up jungle hills under enemy fire to get a superior position. He told me he even saw one of them once grab a Jap on the lip of a cave and pull him out tossing him to his death on the ground below. He had the most respect for these men.

Then there were the support personnel. They weren't so good at fighting but they knew how to move supplies, call in artillery, facilitate communications, repair and maintain the weaponry, etc... He said they were the muscle of the body that complimented the skeleton. He had a good respect for the muscle of the operation.

Lastly, of course, were the thumb suckers. That's what he called them: "thumb suckers." These were the cowardly and/or totally inept. He said they were the fat that drug everyone else down and put everyone at risk. He told me what they did with these ones. He said we dug a big trench and when the fighting started we put them in there so they would be safe and they lie at the bottom scared shi*tless. A few even laid at the bottom with their eyes closed sucking their thumbs overcome by fear. That's where the name "thumb suckers" came from.

The thumb suckers did have one use; however. The veterans would bring replacement personnel for the men that died over to the trench and show them the thumb suckers and tell them if they didn't perform: that's where they were going and that's how they would be remembered.

So which are you? Are you the skeleton, the muscle, or a fat thumb sucker? All that "theology" goes right out the window when the fighting starts and your actions reveal your utility.

I'm aging with arthritis so I'm more muscle than skeleton today but I was skeleton in my youth. What I will NEVER be; however, is a fat thumb sucker hiding behind liberal theology on planet delusional.

+1000^^^^. I believe that when adversity befalls us again, great men will come out of every corner of our land and redeem the thumbsuckers once more....unless of course, Jesus does the job this time once and for all.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

When you're out and about, obviously number one is not getting into a bad situation to begin with. Posturing can help with that, as you say, by presenting as neither threat nor prey. This is enhanced by situational awareness.

For those with disabilities, you do present as prey to criminals. It's not your fault. It is what it is. So obviously, qualify where you go and who you are with. Not to be lackadaisical: but safe places with good competent people reduces risk potential very significantly.

The local Irish tavern on a Saturday night, for example, has a much higher risk potential than a typical mainstream Christian mega-church on Sunday morning.

Just saying...

It helps to understand human psychology in such situations

 

[Allin]

I completely trust God for everything, make no mistake. In the mountains I will explain to my group to run down hill and zig in and out between the trees if we are attacked by a bear. You see. A bear can run 35 mph and it doesn't matter if it is flat or uphill. However, running downhill and changing direction is another trick with that much weight and momentum. However I would not be running, whether with a knife or a small boulder roughly the size of both of my fists I would stay. I would not be scared. Why? is it because I think God will make the bear to lie down? no, either A: the bear will realize I'm not afraid and this isn't worth it. Or B: the Lord will deliver the bear unto my hand. If not? if it is the Lords will that I sacrifice my life, so be it. I will then only have one last mission. To do my best to ensure the bear is in no condition to chase anyone else.

To each his own I guess. There are ways to see situations and such ahead of time (camping trips or whatever). It's not always necessary, but it's wise. And it isn't fearing the worst either; it's just learning to 'abide' in God in such a way that when He relays information to your spirit, you are aware. I believe that if earthly fathers, who can never be totally sure, would warn their kids of possible harm, God is much more willing to warn and direct us away from harm which He clearly sees.

 

[Allin]

When you're out and about, obviously number one is not getting into a bad situation to begin with. Posturing can help with that, as you say, by presenting as neither threat nor prey. This is enhanced by situational awareness.

For those with disabilities, you do present as prey to criminals. It's not your fault. It is what it is. So obviously, qualify where you go and who you are with. Not to be lackadaisical: but safe places with good competent people reduces risk potential very significantly.

The local Irish tavern on a Saturday night, for example, has a much higher risk potential than a typical mainstream Christian mega-church on Sunday morning.

Just saying...

I don't have a problem attracting trouble; certain types of people sometimes stalk the shadows (so to speak), wishing they could harm me... typically jealous types of people. But no matter how much they wish and desire, they can never make it happen. This isn't a physical but spiritual thing. If I didn't depend on God for protection, I would need a criminal syndicate (or I could of course join one of the more acceptable forms of criminals like certain segments of government, secret societies, and the like) to protect me, because enough people would want to get a piece or two of me. Since life is complex, I like the easy way. In the case of protection, God definitely is it.

 

[resurrection33]

If you were to defend yourself by fighting, or somebody else, is it okay? Or should we turn the other cheek, and allow ourselves to be beaten?

I am curious as to the poll results.

I am talking about strictly hand to hand combat, not weapons.

Please post your reasoning for your vote with scripture in the comments.

Thank you for participating.

I don't see why we can't protect ourselves or those we care about.

 

[jag1977]

It X ME + YOU - I = PROFET THE END TIMES

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Well hopefully you don't end up with a knife in your belly as a result of living in denial and refusing to take precautions as per your homemade "encampment invulnerability [false] theology."

I don't have a problem attracting trouble; certain types of people sometimes stalk the shadows (so to speak), wishing they could harm me... typically jealous types of people. But no matter how much they wish and desire, they can never make it happen. This isn't a physical but spiritual thing. If I didn't depend on God for protection, I would need a criminal syndicate (or I could of course join one of the more acceptable forms of criminals like certain segments of government, secret societies, and the like) to protect me, because enough people would want to get a piece or two of me. Since life is complex, I like the easy way. In the case of protection, God definitely is it.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Allin says you don't need to because as a Christian he's invulnerable. If Allin had been in this church, he would have walked out unscathed:

Islamic Gunmen Storm Church Sunday Service, Kill 22 Christians as Scores Murdered By Terrorists Across Nigeria

If Allin had been in this car, it could never have happened:

Egyptian Islamists Murder Young Christian, After Dragging Her From Car | CNS News

If this had been Allin, he would still be alive:

Armenian Christian Murdered For Refusing To Convert To Islam - Rescue Christians

He's invulnerable don't you know. Allin must be related to Chuck Norris.

I don't see why we can't protect ourselves or those we care about.

 

[1still_waters]

IF there were to ever be a reason to think Christians should not defend themselves here it is.....In my opinion....

Imagine two kids in a room fighting and the parent is in the other room.
One of the kids cries out for help.
The parent walks in and sees both going at it.
The parent breaks them up, and asks who started it.
Both claim the other kid started it.

It's impossible for the parent to know because both are claiming innocence.

If the parent had walked in and seen one kid laying there and taking it, and one kid clearly continuing the aggression, it would be clear who was innocent and who was guilty.

When Christians fight back, it can be sketchy who is innocent and who is guilty.
If Christians don't fight back, the innocent one is easy to identify. (Yes there are probably exceptions to this rule. Save the rant. You get my point.)

It could be possible that Jesus doesn't want us to fight back, that way it will always be clear his children are innocent of not starting a fight.

 

[4enlightment]

1Samuel 17
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And David said to Saul, Let no man's heart fail because of him; thy servant will go and fight with this Philistine.

Ephesians 6:12
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

God was showing us by straightening up the flesh doesn't solve the problem, but it goes more deeper than that to straightened things up.

Matthew 23:26
Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Ah, I see. Christians are supposed to let anyone who feels like it assault and murder them whenever they feel like it because if they defend themselves from being assaulted and murdered someone might get the wrong idea.

Does this extend to the wife and children too?

^ Has it occurred to you that someone might get the wrong idea about Christianity if you DO NOT stop them from assaulting and murdering you and your family?

If I saw someone who could stop a murder refuse to do so, I would think the person a cowardly, evil, morally blighted person and would want NOTHING to do with their belief system.

First, there's the inherent moral problem with your position as it violates God's righteousness/justice which is intrinsic to God Himself who is infinitely and immutably righteous. Literally, the word righteous (Gk: dikaios) means "to be just" or "right." Theologically, it refers to the intrinsic characteristic of God wherein He is absolutely just or right and is the ultimate standard of justice and rightness.

Now pay attention. Sins can be placed into two broad categories:

1. Sins of commission: These sins are doing what we should not do. Sins of commission, doing what we should not do, are described by the apostle John in this verse: "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness" (1 John 3:4).

2. Sins of omission: Sins of omission are not doing what we should do. As James put it, "Anyone... who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins" (James 4:17).

God singled out seven particular sins He cannot abide:

"There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: [l] haughty eyes, [2] a lying tongue, [3] hands that shed innocent blood, [4] a heart that devises wicked schemes, [5] feet that are quick to rush into evil, [6] a false witness who pours out lies and [7] a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. (Prov. 6:16-19).

Simply stated; these are pride, deceit, murder, plotting evil, quickness to do wrong, false testimony, and troublemaking. It is a serious sin of omission not to stop a murder if you can!

Now the Gospel has never taught us to be pacifists (but rather to seek peace when possible). The reason for this is because pacifism is a catastrophic intellectual and moral failure. The pacifist invokes the ultimate immorality by aiding, abetting, and encouraging evil through the sin of omission. Their excuses fail because they are aiding, abetting, and encouraging evil through the sin of omission.

The moral stance of the Pacifist is, unwittingly perhaps; homicidal, genocidal, fratricidal, suicidal, etc... The Pacifist says, in effect: “There is nothing good worth fighting for and there is nothing so evil worth fighting against.”

As the English philosopher Edmund Burke said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” The Pacifist replies, “I am so good that I will do nothing, I will hurt no one, even if that means that good will be destroyed and evil will win. I am so peaceful that I will not discriminate between the goodness of good and the badness of evil, certainly not with enough conviction to take up arms, literally or figuratively, against the triumph of evil over good, of totalitarianism over freedom, of barbarianism over civilization.”

And so the Pacifist aligns with evil itself for in the end, the pacifist is the enabler without whom the triumph of evil would not be possible.

IF there were to ever be a reason to think Christians should not defend themselves here it is.....In my opinion....

Imagine two kids in a room fighting and the parent is in the other room.
One of the kids cries out for help.
The parent walks in and sees both going at it.
The parent breaks them up, and asks who started it.
Both claim the other kid started it.

It's impossible for the parent to know because both are claiming innocence.

If the parent had walked in and seen one kid laying there and taking it, and one kid clearly continuing the aggression, it would be clear who was innocent and who was guilty.

When Christians fight back, it can be sketchy who is innocent and who is guilty.
If Christians don't fight back, the innocent one is easy to identify. (Yes there are probably exceptions to this rule. Save the rant. You get my point.)

It could be possible that Jesus doesn't want us to fight back, that way it will always be clear his children are innocent of not starting a fight.

 

[1still_waters]

Ah, I see. Christians are supposed to let anyone who feels like it assault and murder them whenever they feel like it because if they defend themselves from being assaulted and murdered someone might get the wrong idea.

Does this extend to the wife and children too?

^ Has it occurred to you that someone might get the wrong idea about Christianity if you DO NOT stop them from assaulting and murdering you and your family?

If I saw someone who could stop a murder refuse to do so, I would think the person a cowardly, evil, morally blighted person and would want NOTHING to do with their belief system.

First, there's the inherent moral problem with your position as it violates God's righteousness/justice which is intrinsic to God Himself who is infinitely and immutably righteous. Literally, the word righteous (Gk: dikaios) means "to be just" or "right." Theologically, it refers to the intrinsic characteristic of God wherein He is absolutely just or right and is the ultimate standard of justice and rightness.

Now pay attention. Sins can be placed into two broad categories:

1. Sins of commission: These sins are doing what we should not do. Sins of commission, doing what we should not do, are described by the apostle John in this verse: "Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness" (1 John 3:4).

2. Sins of omission: Sins of omission are not doing what we should do. As James put it, "Anyone... who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins" (James 4:17).

God singled out seven particular sins He cannot abide:

"There are six things the LORD hates, seven that are detestable to him: [l] haughty eyes, [2] a lying tongue, [3] hands that shed innocent blood, [4] a heart that devises wicked schemes, [5] feet that are quick to rush into evil, [6] a false witness who pours out lies and [7] a man who stirs up dissension among brothers. (Prov. 6:16-19).

Simply stated; these are pride, deceit, murder, plotting evil, quickness to do wrong, false testimony, and troublemaking. It is a serious sin of omission not to stop a murder if you can!

Now the Gospel has never taught us to be pacifists (but rather to seek peace when possible). The reason for this is because pacifism is a catastrophic intellectual and moral failure. The pacifist invokes the ultimate immorality by aiding, abetting, and encouraging evil through the sin of omission. Their excuses fail because they are aiding, abetting, and encouraging evil through the sin of omission.

The moral stance of the Pacifist is, unwittingly perhaps; homicidal, genocidal, fratricidal, suicidal, etc... The Pacifist says, in effect: “There is nothing good worth fighting for and there is nothing so evil worth fighting against.”

As the English philosopher Edmund Burke said, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” The Pacifist replies, “I am so good that I will do nothing, I will hurt no one, even if that means that good will be destroyed and evil will win. I am so peaceful that I will not discriminate between the goodness of good and the badness of evil, certainly not with enough conviction to take up arms, literally or figuratively, against the triumph of evil over good, of totalitarianism over freedom, of barbarianism over civilization.”

And so the Pacifist aligns with evil itself for in the end, the pacifist is the enabler without whom the triumph of evil would not be possible.

You know my stance on guns. I'm just saying that if there were to be an argument against defense that would make sense for me, the argument I made would make the most sense to me.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I know your stance on the 2nd amendment and position on CC. That's why I took the time to provide you a genuine, and I hope a respectful, explanation.

You know my stance on guns. I'm just saying that if there were to be an argument against defense that would make sense for me, the argument I made would make the most sense to me.

 

[Allin]

Allin says you don't need to because as a Christian he's invulnerable. If Allin had been in this church, he would have walked out unscathed:

Islamic Gunmen Storm Church Sunday Service, Kill 22 Christians as Scores Murdered By Terrorists Across Nigeria

If Allin had been in this car, it could never have happened:

Egyptian Islamists Murder Young Christian, After Dragging Her From Car | CNS News

If this had been Allin, he would still be alive:

Armenian Christian Murdered For Refusing To Convert To Islam - Rescue Christians

He's invulnerable don't you know. Allin must be related to Chuck Norris.

I just have Someone standing really close to me who would totally amaze you. I have been in near death incidents and have come out unscathed. I won't make a list as Christianity today is so far from the ideal and so dumb, while it thinks itself smart, that it doesn't understand anything but what it speaks (like Americans who only speak English and can't stand Mexicans and others speaking their native languages in public or really in America at all). If it was bragging rights, I definitely have reason to brag: "A thousand may fall at your side, and ten thousand at your right hand, but it will not come near you." You'd be surprised and probably irate and jealous to know what I've come out of unscathed (including car crashes, etc.); but you can brag about your skills if you want. I love the fact I don't have to use mine. And those Chuck Norris jokes are FUNNY!!! I used to know a guy that had a poster of them. So, how much wood would a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck Chuck Norris?" Probably none since the only way you could chuck Chuck Norris is by calling his name: "Hey, Chuck!"